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Originally posted by deadbang
We should just leave'em to it...and when they are done killing each other and they WILL...then we'll sort it out.
Originally posted by deadbang
Agit8dChop, I said nothing about "cutting and running"...thats coward talk...and I fully support seeing a mission through...but there comes a time man...that you need to realize that this ain't working...and if a people are hell bent for destruction...them let them destruct...just my opinion.
Originally posted by Shamanator
The Terrorists prove they are cowardly again with attacks on unarmed civilians perhaps we should start making examples out of anywhere this happens I am all for bring back napalm for situations like this. Its time these terrorists realised the best way to stay alive is to keep away from our Oil and other supplys.
Theres no reasoning with these people we liberated them rebuilt their country brought them Democracy and are now helping them police it the population is clearly insane.
Originally posted by AceWombat04
I am always fascinated - though saddened - by people's reactions to incidents like the one depicted in this thread, and the ensuing discussions which stem from them. I lament the war in Iraq, and indeed, all war. My personal belief is that warfare is justifiable only within the context of the invisible lines drawn by skewed perception and pride, existing nowhere other than in our minds. That isn't a very popular view, however, so I'll try to keep this short.
To those who would call me unpatriotic or a coward, I would like to say this:
I weep for the people who died in that convoy. I weep for those who die in similar attacks with increasing frequency. I lament the reasons people feel constitute justification for this war. I weep for every soldier, of any nationality, that has paid the price with their life or their livelihood for that belief. I honor the spirit of sacrifice which called them to action, while loathing and lamenting the forms in which that spirit has manifested itself.
To those reading the above who would as a result call me a pro-western war supporter, I would like to say this:
I weep for the insurgents. I weep for the Iraqi (and other) children whose lives or limbs or families are snuffed out in a matter of moments with increasing regularity. I weep for those we are told to see as enemies when they suffer or die, because I recognize that the line between "them" and "us" exists nowhere but in our hearts and minds. I understand the reasons for the ongoing violence, however I do not believe it is justified. I oppose the war.
To Syrian Sister and those who rejoice in, or at least support, incidents such as this, I would like to ask the following question:
How do you perceive people like me, having read what I typed above? You stated in your opening post, "How many children throwing rocks will it take for the occupiers and their countries to understand that they are not wanted? How many more people have to die, before you tell your governments you will no longer believe there lies??" (Emphasis was added by myself and is not congruent with the original post.) If I were to tell you that every time I see the blood-soaked corpse of an insurgent on television I want to cry, how would you perceive me? If I were to tell you that I feel the same way when I see an American body laying dead in someone's arms on television, would any sympathy I gained when I said that be lost? I don't view you as anything other than a person, and while it might seem illogical or contradictory, I care about every life lost in this conflict regardless of nationality or cultural background. In my mind and in my heart, this is truly a civil war between humanity and itself.
If I had the power to stop this conflict, I would do so in an instant. If someone told me that somehow, miraculously, my death would magically ensure that this conflict would end, then I would go outside and step in front of a bus. Unfortunately, I have no power, am ill, and can only watch. So I want to ask a question I've always wondered about in my heart, and that is this: I do not see you as part of an ethnic group, part of one "side" or another, or my enemy. I see you as a human being, regardless of how you style yourself or others perceive you. I would rather die than kill or harm anyone, and I choose to perceive no one on the face of this Earth as my enemy. So I ask you, in that spirit, are you and others who share your views capable of viewing me as anything other than an American or the enemy? I have never seen this question asked, and I feel it goes straight to the heart of this conflict, and indeed, all human conflicts.
A BRITISH sniper told yesterday how he killed an Iraqi gunman from more than half a mile. Corporal Matt Hughes, 28, a Royal Marines marksman, was ordered to “take out” an Iraqi holding back a vital advance during a fierce gale. He pulled off an incredible feat of marksmanship by gauging perfectly the wind speed to bend the bullet to its target. The 7.62 calibre round from his L96 sniper rifle curved 56ft in the air before striking its target in the chest, killing him instantly.
Next to him, another Royal Marines sniper killed a second Iraqi at exactly the same moment.
Corporal Hughes, of the Marines’ spearhead brigade patrol troop, said yesterday: “It was a bit like David Beckham taking a free kick. I knew I only had one shot and had to get the angle exactly right. It was hot and the wind was blowing strongly from left to right as we crept up to a vantage point about 860 metres from the target.
“I saw I had a clear shot at my man — he was in what he thought was a secure position, but his head and chest were exposed. He was still wearing his green Iraqi uniform and was holding the rifle he’d been using to shoot at Marines.
Originally posted by Syrian Sister
Don't look at me, it's the geneva conventions that is saying it's alright. You are to be treated just as any other soldier, you are part of the military machine after all.
There should be no mystery about the nature of the resistance in Iraq. The situation is very simple, as it would be in most countries of the world — when you have an occupation by a foreign power, you have resistance. And that’s exactly what’s happened in Iraq.
It’s absurd to think that there are tiny groups either of foreign fighters or remnants of the former regime who are holding the rest of the population to ransom.
You can see this in Fallujah, in Mosul. You could see this from the very beginning — from the summer of 2003. Whenever I went to a place where there had been an attack on a US patrol, and US soldiers had been killed, always, the local kids were jumping up and down for joy. This was always an unpopular occupation with most of the population, and that majority has gone up.
A new WPO poll of the Iraqi public finds that seven in ten Iraqis want US-led forces to commit to withdraw within a year. An overwhelming majority believes that the US military presence in Iraq is provoking more conflict than it is preventing and there is growing confidence in the Iraqi army. If the US made a commitment to withdraw, a majority believes that this would strengthen the Iraqi government. Support for attacks on US-led forces has grown to a majority position—now six in ten. Support appears to be related to a widespread perception, held by all ethnic groups, that the US government plans to have permanent military bases in Iraq.
Originally posted by magicmushroom
Syrian Sister, I dont agree with the invasion of Iraq but may I ask where were the freedom fighters during Saddams reign of terror. He was in power a long time yet there seems to have been no effective action to take him out, why not.
1991 March - After the expulsion of Iraqi troops from Kuwait in March 1991, members of the pro-government Kurdish militia, the Jash, defect to the KDP and PUK, but the uprising grinds to a halt and US-led forces refuse to intervene to support the rebels. Around 1.5 millions Kurds flee before the Iraqi onslaught, but Turkey closes the border forcing hundreds of thousands to seek refuge in the mountains.
1996 August - Masoud Barzani appeals to Saddam Hussein for help to defeat the PUK.
1996 September - With the help of Iraqi government troops, KDP forces seize the northern city of Irbil and take the PUK stronghold of Sulaymaniyah. A new KDP-led government is announced at the parliament building in Irbil.
As he helped extract the car of a Western journalist mired in a bog, [an Iraqi Kurd] spat out a complaint: "Why? Why do you Americans allow this to happen? Saddam will kill us all -- men, women and children. Why doesn't Bush do something? Why should all my children die? Why?"
The Kurds had no patience for geopolitical explanations. They were bitter at what they considered the betrayal of the U.S. Two weeks earlier, Washington seemed to promise that it would protect them from Saddam's unbridled use of air power, but now they were under constant fire from the sky. "We complained 10 times to the Americans that the Iraqis were using fixed-wing aircraft against us. We never received a reply," said an aide to Massoud Barzani, the commander in chief of the rebels. "One might think the U.S. and Mr. Bush want to see all the Kurds massacred."
The alliance with Turkey also required some fancy footwork because of the question of the Kurds in northern Iraq. It is difficult not to notice that Iraqi forces facing U.S. troops would be severely weakened if the U.S. were to support a Kurdish rebellion. Washington rejected this option, presumably out of concern that a Kurdish rebellion in Iraq might spread to Eastern Turkey, where the huge Kurdish population (subjected to torture and other severe punishments for the crime of speaking or writing Kurdish or otherwise identifying themselves as Kurds) suffer brutal oppression. In a rare notice of the issue in the press, the Wall Street Journal observed that "the West fears that pressing the `Kurdish question' with Turkey, Syria and Iran...could weaken the anti-Iraq alliance." The report adds that "the U.S. administration pointedly refused to meet with an Iraqi Kurdish leader who visited Washington in August" to ask for support, and that "Kurds say Ankara is using the Gulf crisis and Turkey's resulting popularity in the West as cover for a crackdown" -- while Western commentary now laments Iraq's vicious treatment of the Kurds, whose grim fate has been cynically exploited by the West for many years. Other reports confirm new population transfers in the regions near the Iraqi border, with several hundred villages either partially or totally evacuated, though increased press censorship -- the most severe since 1925, according to an informed Turkish source -- leaves the matter obscure.
Originally posted by JSquared
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It saddens me that people do not share the view that you and I do.....
People are people....no matter where they are from, what they look like, what God they follow, or how they choose to live their lives....
It is sad that people continue to bicker about this even after you posted......One even glorifying someone that was bragging about killing someone.....
What if it was you that were killed by a sniper because you were seen as a threat?....Who are you to judge someone else and assess their viability as a threat?..
It disgusts me that people like this call themselves Americans.....no wonder everyone hates us....