It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
My post was in response to your "little assignment", I do not think Indigenous people to be absurd, they do not claim to be Gods.
The Church and the Clergy, in God's name, have promoted wars, have sanctioned Inquisitions and Torture, they have collaborated with dictators(they even learnt a perfect Nazi salute during tha last war)
The Clergy does not exactly live by the sweat of its brow. Famins,earthquakes, Tsunamis; they never give, they always take and hoard. They take from the poor without any scruples or regrets.
Their edifice stands because of people like you... I have nothing against God, I hate exploitative monopolies and the Church has certainly monopolized the Bible.
If you think it's beautiful, just do your Christian duty and don't worry, it is I that risk the everlasting pains of hell.
Originally posted by HarpStrings
I'm not sure I'm understanding the point you are making here. Some of these supposed myths are still relished today. Scientifically, we have no better understanding as to why either. Instead of witches being burnt at the stake, they market their abilities and make a nice profit. Years ago people ran from 'witches' in fear, today people run to them for advice and healing and so on.
Once again, I agree, but don't understand your point. You seem to be using 'true' historical events to argue that the bible is a myth? So it appears to me that you are capable of going back as late as the 1600's but no further? What, is everything beyond that time a complete myth?
Who are we to say that in biblical times people didn't understand the world around them.
Originally posted by HarpStrings
Now you are on to a completely separate issue, which isn't to do with the topic. "People like you" place God, religion, bible and all natural disasters in a tube of corruption to help you understand why the world is this way or that way and to give you an excuse to hate or shun or argue. Personally it doesn't matter to me who you are or what you do in your life, everyone is capable of the same things, perhaps it is people like you who keep "their" edifices standing?
I think a lot of things in life are beautiful and a lot of things are pretty crappy and ugly. I'll think of it as my humanly duty to worry about my fellow man, not soley because of their 'beliefs' I worry for the sake of the planet and because I care about you. If being this way defines me as a Christian to you than so be it. It wouldn't matter to be whether a person was religious or not, if they were drowning I'd do everything I could to save them. (For the record, I don't believe you're at risk)
I wouldnt say the bible was fiction or '*holy*', but I wouldnt state that it was the complete truth either.
The bible is probably based on actual events and some actual people but I would have to disagree that there is any divinity in its writing or its authors.
The bible is a compilation of Judaic, Judeo-christian and Christian beliefs over around 1000(?) year period and contains innaccuracies and contradictions to even its own faith.
So yes I can see what the Original Poster meant by myth and fairytale while many of the faith will only see the historical and therefore disagree.
I embrace the written word of God and no, I don't need religion to tell me it's 'right' or science to tell me it's 'wrong'. I do so because the living spirit inside me (for which is not tangible) sternly speaks to me.
an industry of deceipt and exploitation.
Originally posted by Ersatz
Perhaps I did digress a little but I happen to think that people who speak on behalf of Biblegod are supporting the Church which i regard as an industry of deceipt and exploitation.
I also believe the Bible to be a book of myths and stories written by various jewish Rabbis between 900 a.d. and 400 a.d. with no intervention from any God whatsoever.
No better and no worst than other holy books.
You say you are not a Christian, do you believe the bible to be true? What do you find historical in the Bible?
Originally posted by Strangerous
A question for all you bible-zealots out there who believe your book to be compltete justification for your beliefs - what about the Koran or the Torah, or the creation myths of the American Indian, Auststralian Aboriginal or the Maori?
What makes YOUR book true / valid and these other beliefs wrong?
If they're all right then doesn't it it just prove they're all the comforting nonsense of ignorant people invented to make life explainable before we became enlightened?
Originally posted by HarpStrings
I still don't see the connection. I'll recap for myself:
*You wondered in your original post whether the bible was a myth, a fairytale if you will.
*You compared the *Holy* Bible to Sleeping Beauty.
*Later you used superstitions and witches of the late 16th Century, to validate your accusations.
At first you didn't seem to be hard set on throwing the bible out as just another fairytale, you seemed more concerned and desired others’ opinions or thoughts. Did you just wake up one day and decide that the bible must be a myth? The way you opened your OP would give off that impression. You are correct, the bible is a written account of many lives in connection with our God and The Messiah. There are scholars among scholars that cannot disprove the written word (and I’m sure many crave to place a huge sticky on all Bibles that says FICTION) but they can’t. There have been Atheist who seek to discredit the word (possibly to justify their disbelief) but they can’t either, and sometimes they end up devout. You, goose are not the first and certainly not the last person to think that the bible might be fiction. Being that you don’t even know why you ‘wonder’ that it’s a fairytale and now less than a week after your original post I’m sensing that you aren’t even capable of carrying on a sincere debate or perhaps you’ve just lost interest?
I recommend you go read the bible for yourself. Beginning to end. It’s no Sleeping Beauty.
To me the bible is based on historical events but is a more or less a fictional book i.e Jesus NOT the son of god, god creating the earth and stuff like that - you know the faith stuff.
Originally posted by HarpStrings
I wouldnt say the bible was fiction or '*holy*', but I wouldnt state that it was the complete truth either.
Why? Then what would you state since you appear to not even have a clue what your own self thinks?
The bible is probably based on actual events and some actual people but I would have to disagree that there is any divinity in its writing or its authors.
The bible is "probably" based on....? How do you disagree to it's divinity?
Well flat earth and pillars holding up the sky are fairly INACCURATE. And what do you mean by a 'few contradictions' when there are loads
The bible is a compilation of Judaic, Judeo-christian and Christian beliefs over around 1000(?) year period and contains innaccuracies and contradictions to even its own faith.
Contradictions written in the Bible, I've read a few, yes. Inaccuracies? What and where did you find this and come upon this knowledge?
First off I thought Dracula would be a better analogy as places and people in the story actually existed but the story is fictional - just like the bible IMO.
So yes I can see what the Original Poster meant by myth and fairytale while many of the faith will only see the historical and therefore disagree.
Nothing that you've stated in summary gives the impression that you agree with the OP that the Bible is a fairytale or myth-this is the accusation, this is the assumption and all I've read thus far to back up this claim are comparisons to Sleeping Beauty, a few superstitions and witch tales, something about the moon and behavior and now Bram Stokers Dracula....
Do any of you even read the Bible??? Take away for a moment the main figures and their story..now does the bible seem a little more realistic? Is the problem some of you are having with the written accounts of the people or the claims that God is our God or religion today?
Some seem to have no problem believing written historical accounts of the late 16th century but have trouble believing the biblical accounts. Let's remember too that the time was different, the people spoke and wrote different than you and I today....
My point is this; if you don't believe the bible because you just don't want to is no excuse to claim that it is a fairytale. You claim this, you are going to need to provide better 'proof' than what's been provided thus far in this thread.
Originally posted by HarpStrings
That's just a speck of evidence or facts that back the claims that the Bible is real and true.
Sincerely,
Harps
Originally posted by goose
If you can prove that people back in biblical times had a great deal of scientific knowledge then please do so.
Originally posted by goose
I gave you a historical connection to prove the people of biblical times did not understand the world around them with any scientific knowledge since as late as the 1600-1800's people were still thinking the simplest thing they did not understand meant someone was a witch, the sky was falling, and lots of other crazy things;
If you can prove that people back in biblical times had a great deal of scientific knowledge then please do so.
You believe in the bible because you want to, there is nothing in the bible that is provable other than references to places and a bit of history. I compared it to a fairytale because I believe it is. I have read the bible and spent a great deal of my time as a youth in church, so please don't assume if I read more I will believe as you do, it won't happen.
You say there are scholars who have attempted to prove it is not real, well here is your problem, no one has proven it is real. No one can prove it is real. If you can give us proof, by all means do so
Originally posted by HarpStrings
Here are some sources:
www.allabouttruth.org...
That's just a speck of evidence or facts that back the claims that the Bible is real and true.
Sincerely,
Harps
www.allabouttruth.org...
Dr. Nelson Glueck, perhaps the utmost modern authority on Israeli archeology, said: "No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."
Originally posted by HarpStrings
Same source:
www.allabouttruth.org...
Dr. Nelson Glueck, perhaps the utmost modern authority on Israeli archeology, said: "No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."