What if America lost

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
That is the total truth. We are basicly holding back....we could outright demolish them if we really wanted to.

Why is it that everytime we fall into a quagmire "we are holding back"?

Could it not be that American citizens and the world have been lied to and America is not as militarily powerful as everyone thinks? I mean, this crap of, "Oh, we are just holding back," is getting old.

We have lost nearly 3,000 troops since this conflict began,not couting Afghanistan, and to be honest, it doesn't look like we are gaining any headroom at all. So, if we are so mighty, why not show it to the world once and for all? You see,that's the conuundrum, we are not as mighty as we have deceived the world and ourselves to believe we are.

[edit on 28-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Speaker--

I tend to agree with your attitude and good sense, here, and I just want to add bit to the mix.

The loss figures you have quoted are grossly in error by more than 20,000. The reason for that is the fact that total casualties include more than KIAs. The Total casualty figure for Iraq alone is 23,000+. All of that is "loss" because these other 20+K WIAs are no longer in combat or in country. Currently, the casualty rate in Iraq is a full Batallion per month KIA/WIA/MIA; and all at a monetary cost of more than 7 billion per month. Conveniently, the Administration and the Media forget to tell you these figures--meaning that they are not telling the Truth. The greater majority of the WIAs are changed for Life. Their War injuries, like my own, are permanant and disableing.

For the Flag-waivers and gung-ho types up here, let me add this note from personal experience, just so you will at least try to understand my point, and the truth about Combat and Warfare. There is more to being a Patriot than waving the Flag. More often than not, Patriotism requires that Love your country enough to speak out when it's wrong and on the wrong track. I am saying this from the standpoint of spending 1 year, 9 months, and 11 days as a combat Soldier in Vietnam--until I was blown up by a Kate missile. Let me tell you, that any and all flag-waiving zeal you may have had when you landed in-country evaporates and disappears from your psyche and thoughts, and your innocence and morality vanishes like so much smoke in the wind exactly when the first enemy round cracks past your ears; never to return. Your days become a matter of bare bones survival, and you learn to live like, and act like, and animal--your life depends on it. You learn to ignore the smell of gunpowder, fuel/air. napalm, C-4, RDX, burning human flesh, and rotting bodies, and to ignore the screams of the wounded and dying on both sides. Trust me, there is none of your damned "glory" in it. Are you afraid? YES, and you learn to ignore it, because, if you don't, it will kill you or somebody else. Do you "hold back"? NO--if you do you will not survive.

Do I support our Troops? YES, but I do not support the current mission--which is supplying the blood for a New Democracy. That is something the Iraqis need to do on
their own. You cannot understand or appreciate Freedom or Liberty without winning it on your own, and that requires the sacrifice of your own people. We cannot limit that risk for them, and should not. Freedom is hard-won, and not easy to keep. The only way to understand the cost and the concept is to participate fully in the winning of it and dealing with the cost i money and lives yourself. Support the Iraqi effort? Cetrainly!--but not with American or Coallition Blood. We insured their free choice, they chose Freedom, and now it is up to them.

Now I have a question for you Flag-waivers---What do you mean by "we're just holding back"? Specifically what is it that we are holding? "Holding back" kills our people, folks, so, if we are holding back, something is terribly wrong.




[edi

[edit on 29-9-2006 by Ed Littlefox]

It is interesting that this thread has gained little attention. It seems that many with the gung ho attitude cannot contemplate such a scenario, and I would of appreciated comments from such people, but maybe its their worst nightmare.

If more Americans did think of such a situation maybe they would not be in the mess they are in now (UK included).

I think that if the American leaders in the deepest bunkers were faced with invasion/occupation/anhialation they would expend every nuclear device available.

A scorched earth defence.

just a thought.

IF America lost a war....hmm..... (Pretty big IF by the way)

1) Generally brief economic depression as common to all nations that have engaged in war. Investments would be down slightly, but nothing to be really concerned about. However, with the current 8 trillion national debt and the spendings in the Middle East, even a slight trough may be disasterous.

2) Possible overwhelming victory for conservatives in the upcoming elections. Probrably using the same "they lost because they were fighting with their hands behind their back" excuse as in Vietnam. (Basically blaming anti-war politicans, AKA Democrats)

3) Possible public anger due to loss of national pride. The rednecks calling pre-emtive conventional/nuclear strike would really find an audience. (If you take offence from this, than good, you deserve it) If you think the "flag waving gun-ho" types are bad now......



That last time in history that a large and arragont nation have lost a war was in WWI.....and we all know what that led to.......


Basically, such a senario could go two ways:

National apathy for the war and its vetearns. (Post-Vietnam, Carter and Ford)

Or extreme nationalism/fascism. (Germany, 1920-30s.)

X I dont take offence re your comments or the gung ho types its a case of asking people to look at other possible outcomes and one has to sometimes lay aside patriotic fervour to see with more clarity.