There are no secrets better kept than the secrets that everybody guesses.

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton


Masonic Light:

Yes, I can very well understand your position it is rational and logical, that however does not make it right.
I could see the scenario you put up and find it most realistic if we consider human basic nature, though my paradox is as stated, if what you said was true the power structure would have inflated long ago, evidence suggest the opposite.

I'm not sure how. During the height of the Industrial Revolution, while studying the inner mechanics of the "invisible hand" of capitalism, Marx predicted that wealth would eventually be concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. This is exactly what we are witnessing today.

Who taught the Master? Who made the Master: Master?

Who told the higher truth to the first initiate climbing the stairs of enlightenment?

It is said that the Buddha attained enlightenment while sitting under a bodhi tree. Perhaps sometimes, that's all it takes.

I am sure that what you propose is only correct up to a certain height in the echelon.

I personally wouldn't be so sure. After all, 2 plus 2 always equals four, regardless if one is a third grade math student, or one completing a Ph.D in mathematical theory. The truth of the equation is understood more in its implications by the graduate student, but the inherent truth of it is likewise known by the child in his math class.

Yes you could say that, and I respect you view I really do. Though as presented about the chances of life to occur spontaneous I do not think that these higher truths where discovered by coincidence.
Of course, this is biased because this is something I believe in. However, until I see clear evidence of the contrary I will stick with my theory, for now at least.


EDIT: typo

[edit on 26-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

Mod Edit: big quote

[edit on 27-9-2006 by kinglizard]

Masonic Light

I was interested in what you were saying about the Tarots, how old would you imagine they are ? Do the Cathars have anything to do with their introduction in Europe?

Apart from the Bota pack which other packs do you rate serious for meditation?

Tks if you get the time.

Originally posted by Belinquest
Masonic Light

I was interested in what you were saying about the Tarots, how old would you imagine they are ? Do the Cathars have anything to do with their introduction in Europe?

Paul Foster Case was of the opinion that they originated as a book of images in Fez, Morocco in the High Middle Ages with Sufi and Kabalistic Adepts, and were transferred to playing cards by Rosicrucians several centuries later. This is a possibility, but the only thing we know for sure is that they were introduced into Europe in the 15th century in the form of cards.

Apart from the Bota pack which other packs do you rate serious for meditation?

For artistic value, I like the Waite-Ryder pack, although Waite introduced a few intentional errors (he thought if he revealed the entire list of attributions, he would be violating his vow of secrect to the Golden Dawn). The Golden Dawn Tarot is correct in the attributions but is artistically inferior to Waite's.

The Crowley Thoth Tarot is interesting, but very complex in its symbolism. It is correct in its attributions, the only exception being the question of Tzaddi.

I would recommend any of these packs keeping those comments in mind, but I believe the BOTA pack to be the most "user friendly".

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton

Yes you could say that, and I respect you view I really do. Though as presented about the chances of life to occur spontaneous I do not think that these higher truths where discovered by coincidence.
Of course, this is biased because this is something I believe in. However, until I see clear evidence of the contrary I will stick with my theory, for now at least.
[edit on 26-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

Hello, Tetra

When you say "higher truths", what do you mean?
How do you propose to recognize one or several of them?

Tetra,
are you busy having a life outside the boards?(snicker snicker)
So if you extrapolate our timeline backwards to the beginning do the truths become a single truth? Where, why, and by whom do you believe this truth was split into truths? And was this done to help or hinder mankinds evolution? Here lies the problem. Someone had to be the first to recognize this as truth, so someone was first to keep it as secret. In the 'Garden' the serpent seems to want to lead us to the truth, while God tells us to stay away. Makes you wonder what side they both are really on. Could this story have been set up as a scarecrow to make us bow our heads to ignorance? C'mon ADAM and EVE, DENY IGNORANCE! Oh they did, thank the gods ... And they did it without ATS, now that is a miracle

The higher truths can be a form of universal facts, this we cannot explain with words, we try to explain them as we try to explain pi and the golden ratio with mathematics and this is just because we have no words for it.
It is as quantum mechanics our written and spoken languages are build from our reality, our reality was here first, and then came the written and spoken language. What many believe is that if you hold one of these truths you can simply write a book about it or tell someone about it. It could not be further from the truth, anyone telling you he can tell you or teach you the higher truth, are himself not being truthful.

I agree that there is only one higher wisdom, you can translate this as many do into one higher truth, but in order for you to understand it you need first to learn the lesser wisdom that when combined creates the higher.
This is what we call the law of association, our entire realities are based upon this, and there is no shortcut. In theory, there could be a singularity, we could call this singularity Jesus or Neo depending on what story you like the most. This singularity has a thought of short-circuit happen to him, and hence he learned something without using association.
That is very plausible, if one thing we know is that mutations does happen, this is what Darwin and many others referred to as Evolution. Most of the time of course it is not a good thing to mutate, but sometimes, just sometimes these mutations are beneficial, and hence cause something better or more versatile to be created. Jesus could have been a mutant, scientifically speaking of course.

Many of these truths is taught by esoteric teachings and mathematical equations, some are again taught using microscopes and supercolliders, others again by dissecting and opening materials and individual life forms.
There is no single way to reach these truths and as a human being, I am afraid you will have to content with the knowledge that you cannot posses all the information needed to understand them all. I theorise that what most believers including myself call the soul has no memory, because in theory the soul are not made from atoms; I believe it to be smaller than that and moving way faster than the speed of light hence the reason it is timeless or infinite if you like that word more.
So using you soul to access these higher truths will lead you nowhere, literally nowhere.

I also theorise that the soul moves in and out of our reality, and is connected with multiple you’s.
In this theory for the ease of reading we could say that there might be 10(*1000) you’s in all the different multi-verses, remember there are at least 10(*10000) verses where you do not exist, your soul is shared by all the you’s through out the verses, so one soul has a lot of bodies to look after. Also in this equation, I have not added all the verses where no life forms are, and I theorise that they far outnumber verses where life of any kind is possible.

I theorise that the soul is like the DNA’s DNA. The memory block creates the emotional relations we build through out our lives via association. Our feelings are chemical reactions, though how we relate to them is not.

I believe that we our selves split them up in trying to understand them; we do this all the time in ancient and modern science. When we want to find neutrons, we smash atoms etc.

But I am under the impression that some of the lesser truths are deliberately being hold from us in order to domesticate us, the ones doing this is the Illuminati I refer to.

EDIT: Hit the 4000 limit again

[edit on 27-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

They need our ignorance, and we see this everyday with our own eyes, the average human, and I am truly sorry for this generalization, but this is how I see it, is an unintelligent mammal that are overloaded with impressions and hence shut out more than 80% of the input it gets. It cannot relate nor reflect upon all the input and chooses to go with the flow.
This is what a normal domesticated animal like the cow and sheep does, they shut it out and does not see that they are marching towards the slaughterhouse.

Personally, I think the bible is BS, there are no truths in it, I have read the Qur’an and most other holy scriptures, and they all give the impression of servitude, which is the last thing we should be doing.

On a side note I am always online, when I am not reading on the internet I am reading a book, the internet is the place where I socially interact, I know many consider this sad, and perhaps it is. Though at least I chose this for my self, no one forced it upon me.
I have chosen a life in solitude, the game you call the food chain, and the social act that is played in its wake give me no satisfaction, though stimulating my brain cells with new information gives me my buzz.

EDIT: Typo

[edit on 27-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

Originally posted by Masonic Light

The Crowley Thoth Tarot is interesting, but very complex in its symbolism. It is correct in its attributions, the only exception being the question of Tzaddi.

I would recommend any of these packs keeping those comments in mind, but I believe the BOTA pack to be the most "user friendly".

I heard something about him switching Tzaddi with the Star but I am not sure why ( Star /Acquarius and Emperor/Aries or something)

The Bota pack is not that common in Europe but I will try to find one.

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton

Personally, I think the bible is BS, there are no truths in it, I have read the Qur’an and most other holy scriptures, and they all give the impression of servitude, which is the last thing we should be doing.

I have chosen a life in solitude, the game you call the food chain, and the social act that is played in its wake give me no satisfaction, though stimulating my brain cells with new information gives me my buzz.

Hello Tetragrammaton,

Are you in possession of any of these "higher truths"?
Are these truths something that can be shared?

If any come your way, what criterion will you use to separate the wheat from the chuff?

Personally, I think the bible is BS, there are no truths in it, I have read the Qur’an and most other holy scriptures, and they all give the impression of servitude, which is the last thing we should be doing.

I agree with you in a trend of thought that servitude, does not mean "serving the Church", or serving the Mullahs, it's about serving something much higher. All Great books have to be read as if they are tools. No truth can be found in any book that is not already found inside you. But to claim that there are no truths to be found in the Bible or Koran is a rather well, 'difficult' way of putting it, I think.


[edit on 28-9-2006 by Cinosamitna]

Belinquest:

I believe to be closing in on some truths at least. Nevertheless, this is no goal of mine.
You will have to find out the truths for yourself, the initiation of enlightenment is a personal task you will have to take on for yourself.

You need to remember that in order for me to communicate with you I have to write or speak with you. It is not possible to write or speak a higher truth, since it is of something greater than our reality, and our languages are based on our reality hence it is limited and thus the task is bound to fail.


Cinosamitna:

I believe that there can be found no higher truths from serving, neither self nor anyone or anything.
I believe that the quran, bible and torah are domesticating its believers into something unwanted and unmeant.

You will never be free if you serve.

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton

You will have to find out the truths for yourself, the initiation of enlightenment is a personal task you will have to take on for yourself.

You need to remember that in order for me to communicate with you I have to write or speak with you. It is not possible to write or speak a higher truth, since it is of something greater than our reality, and our languages are based on our reality hence it is limited and thus the task is bound to fail.

I agree with you that enlightenement is a personal affair but I think you are wrong when you say that you cannot express higher truths in writing; Beauty IMO is a very high truth and I have read sublime poetry and prose...The list of masters is endless.
How do you define or recognise a higher truth?

Originally posted by Belinquest

I heard something about him switching Tzaddi with the Star but I am not sure why ( Star /Acquarius and Emperor/Aries or something)

In Liber AL, a verse is found that reads "All the old letters in my Book are aright; but Tzaddi is not The Star".

This verse led Crowley on a search for the "correct" attribution. He finally decided that Tzaddi was related to The Emperor, and therefore transferred Heh to The Star.

Crowley explains his reasoning in The Book of Thoth, but I'm inclined to believe he's in error on this point. Another verse in AL reads "The stops as thou wilt", concerning punctuation (which was not added until after AL had been completed). It's my personal opinion that the verse should read: "But Tzaddi is Not: The Star", in this case, Not = Nuit.

The Bota pack is not that common in Europe but I will try to find one.

Our European website is www.botaineurope.org...

Well we can agree to disagree then, according to the theory of complementarities that Bohr was behind, we cannot define things beyond our reality in spoken or written languages because the ”higher truth” is beyond our reality.
This does not mean we cannot fathom it, it only means that our own language limits us.

I would define a higher truth as universal. It must apply to all aspects of reality, even that which is not our reality.
A higher truth must be complimentary, in other words it must undo itself. In yet another word, it must be a thought of oxymoron.

Like:

The below statement is true
The above statement is false.


Etc.






[edit on 28-9-2006 by Tetragrammaton]

i am everwhere
i am nowhere


i am alive
i am dead


etc

Originally posted by Tetragrammaton
Well we can agree to disagree then, according to the theory of complementarities that Bohr was behind, we cannot define things beyond our reality in spoken or written languages because the ”higher truth” is beyond our reality.
This does not mean we cannot fathom it, it only means that our own language limits us.

Well then it is what Masonic Light was saying about Self Consciousness, Sub Consciousness and Supersubconsciousness in a previous post.

Here's two written sentences that tingle at subliminal level in my subconscious, they are written as you can see...

"The Magical Will is in its essence twofold, for it presupposes a beginning and an end, to will to be a thing is to admit you are not that thing.

"Hence to will anything but the supreme thing is to wander still further from it -- any will but that to give up the self to the beloved is black magick -- yet the surrender is so simple an act that to our complex minds it is the most difficult of all acts; and hence training is necessary ..."

These are only parts of a truth, we would never be able to write or speak a whole one, in my humble oppinion.

Cinosamitna:

I believe that there can be found no higher truths from serving, neither self nor anyone or anything. I believe that the quran, bible and torah are domesticating its believers into something unwanted and unmeant. You will never be free if you serve.

Those who are true masters never come to us as 'Masters', they come as servants, guides, brothers, and teachers. Christ came to serve and yet what is/was He? Serving the 'Self' is not the same thing as serving the Ego-Monad, which is a God. Just as you breath in etheric vitality, you are serving at various levels.

i never talked about a master you did!

i stand by what i said!