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The Rapture Conspiracy Explained

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posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 12:00 AM
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That is an Interesting Body of Work Sacrafice...

there are several assumtions ( your words) in various locations that allow your conslusions to be made.

I am still looking up some of the people you quoted, but did not include their actual words in report. But still, it is a large body of work with reseach.

was this for a thesis, or theology assignment, etc..?




posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 12:22 AM
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Toolman - I suppose I should remember to provide accurate references
.

The correct reference would be:

For the first quote- Stitzinger (2002, p. 156)
For the secong qote - Stitzinger (2002, p. 159)

Stitzinger, J. F. (2002). The rapture in twenty centuries of biblical interpretation. The Masters Seminary Journal, 13(2).

[edit on 26-9-2006 by sacrifice]



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 01:12 AM
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Terral,
May I ask…what bible version are you quoting from? Some of the scriptures you print are a bit off balance to my bible KJV…just wondering??

A lot of the events you refer to are leading up to the fall of Jerusalem. That was a terrible time! There’s quite a lot of history about that time (in which I believe Christ was referencing ahead of, in Matt 24)

I believe that Christ will return for his people, but I do not believe in Pre-Trib rapture. There are many clear indications in scripture that says we will not escape tribulation, only God’s wrath will we elude!

FURTHER:
When you say to people Scoffers, Scoffers, and more Scoffers…Ignore, Ignore, I dislike that. There are many people here who have done a great deal of research themselves (just as you have) in the name of truth seeking. FlyersFan gave a respectable 1st. reply to your thread, now I ask you to take a look inside your heart and answer whom the first scoffer & scorner was?? It was you! Boy that’s Hypocritical… I admonish you. It's no wonder Christians leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.


[edit on 9/26/2006 by jensouth31]



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 02:11 AM
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Well this topic is bound to draw the "scoffers" or haters as I call them..... now if this thread was about the koran or islam....wouldnt have a problem. Frankly, Im surprised some mod hasnt deleted or moved this thread to some obscure corner of this board.

My question is about the timeline....I personally think we are on the edge of the time of tribulations.

I mostly believe this because of the sermon at the mount. Thje following quotes lead me to believe this.

"there will be wars and rumors of wars" - In the 20th century we have seen more widespread warfare than at anypoint previously in history. In the time of Jesus "rumors of wars" doesnt make alot of since does it? Today, it makes perfect since. CNN and other media outlets run "rumors of wars" all the time. Iran, Venezeula, etc.

"ye shall be hated of all nations for my namesake" - We see this all over the world today. Communist countries, Islamic countries, and even countries in the west that are becoming increasingly secular.

So... I kind of think we are already heading into tribulations. This is just my opinion though....



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508
Bravo Terral... It has always amazed me that 'The Rapture' has become such a mainstream component of western religion.



It isn't. It's only a "mainstream component" of American Protestant religion.

It forms no part of the Catholic or Orthodox churches, which the majority of the world's christians belong to. Oh, if you want to claim "they aren't real christians..." - then you'll have to get used to belonging to a much, much smaller religion than you like to imagine.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:15 AM
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The FACT is that almost all christians agree that it does NOT exist at all in scripture. In fact, MOST christians agree that scripture says just the opposite of 'rapture'.


I think you're underselling this, if anything. If you were talk to most European Catholics (for example) about "the Rapture", they wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about. The very idea of it never rose on this side of the horizon.

[edit on 26-9-2006 by JonN]



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by Diem928
it was something that was created in the 1800's in the United States


Here's a bit more tracing out the history of it:

Chapter of a book about Darby

Some of the quotations in there are terribly relevant.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:28 AM
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Rapture is a marketing tool for religious leaders.

it is a shrewd approach to get people interested in this particular brand of Religion, in 200 years people will look back on this just as we look back on religious movements in our past.

The well researched paper that sacrifice wrote has many examples of people running to the mountains, because the rapture was imminent.
it never came.

People read the "left behind" crap, and they think it is biblical. Pat Robertson funded his african diamond mines with fear he instilled in average midwestern farmers regarding the rapture, jerry falwell built a political organization using the same hook....Ralph Reed, jim and tammy....its a long list of hucksters and snake oil salesmen using a great marketing tool to sell.

Believe what we tell you...or you will undergo terrifying and horrific experiences on earth...

who can resist..?



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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ill just correct one obvious fallacy then go read the links flyers flan posted

you said Jesus was discussing THE END of the 1000 years (and paul the first part). but this is false, the 1000 years / millenium / day of the lord, doesnt start UNTIL Christ returns at the 2nd advent. Jesus was discussing the tribulation period, and after the tribulation period he appears.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

After the Tribulation (7 years), then Jesus appears, Then gathers his elect by trumpet. Now lets goto what paul said in 1corinthians 15:52

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

When does Christ come? its at the 7th, or LAST trumpet. That is when everyone is changed. The first ressurection in rev 20 is describing those that overcame the tribulation and are now free from the 2nd death (going to get good stuff at the white throne judgement) and rule with christ 1000 years.

how can the 1000 years be BEFORE the tribulation, when satan is bound those 1000 years in the pit after the 2nd advent? however right now Michael is waiting to kick him out of heaven (revelations 12, hes been there since matthew 4) to start off the tribulation in the first place?



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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let me clear all this mess up...the tribulation started in 2001 and will be over in 2007...jesus will rapture the living SOON..before 2007..then after 2007 there will be asteriod imapcts and nuclear war...the world will bein hell for about 42 months...then jesus will return again to gather more souls...then he comes one more time in 2010..to finish satan....with spaceships.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 07:29 AM
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You do realize there are more than just 2 places in the Bible where we are told about the removal of the first batch of christians before the tribulation period?

Many, many places and Jesus even said it Himself.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 07:30 AM
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Originally posted by JonN


I think you're underselling this, if anything. If you were talk to most European Catholics (for example) about "the Rapture", they wouldn't have any idea what you were talking about. The very idea of it never rose on this side of the horizon.

[edit on 26-9-2006 by JonN]


That European catholics never heard of it should be even more of a proof that it is true.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 07:57 AM
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Many, many places and Jesus even said it Himself.


No, what he actually said was that the world would end in the lifetimes of the apostles. Mark and Matthew plainly believed the prophecy was being fulfilled as they tell their readers to note that his forewarning of the destruction of Jerusalem (explicitly mentioned in Luke's version of the prophecy) has been fulfilled at the time they are writing.

That's what the Early Church really believed in, that's why it was a false religion and that none of the versions of "Christianity" on the market today have anything to do with it, certainly not the "fundamentalist" ones that have woven their own mythology of "the Rapture" to cover up what the text says quite clearly. No matter how much you sneer and scoff at Catholicism (which is at much a "real" version of "Christianity" as whichever sectoid you belong to) you don't change anything.

Watching you monkeys squabble is amusing, and a bit like watching Greeks arguing about the merits of Athena over Aphroduite, however the rest of us can see quite clearly that if you take the nonsense seriously then you are just peddling a very flimsy lie. That's why your ever-expanding fan-fiction adds no sense to the original scriptures, which do not and never could justify the existence of any "Christian church" today.

If you're very excited at the prospect of war in the Middle East, please go there as fast as possible and get yourself killed. You'd be doing the rest of us a favour.

[edit on 26-9-2006 by JonN]



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:04 AM
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I apololigize in advance for what I'm about to say! Catholicism is a completely different religion from evangelical, protestant, Lutheran, or any other form of Christianity where folllowers actually read the bible instead of letting a pope, cardinal, or bishop tell them what to think.
If Catholicism was the true way of Christianity it wouldn't be wealthy & powerful, Satan would have destroyed it long ago, not to mention all the paganism and Voodoo going on in third world countries that claim to be Catholic.
The fact that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments and the majority of Christians celebrate Sunday instead of Saturday tells me when people start screaming about 2.4 billion Christians, I beg to differ.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:06 AM
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The Rapture delusion

Where it all began




Darby and his supporters clearly believed the 'secret rapture' would occur in their own life time and certainly before the end of the 19th Century. Looking back, Blair Neatby, writing his history of the Brethren in 1901 reflects,


If anyone had told the first Brethren that three quarters of a century might elapse and the Church be on earth, the answer would probably have been a smile, partly of pity, partly of disapproval, wholly of incredulity. Yet so it has proved. It is impossible not to respect hopes so congenial to an ardent devotion; yet it is clear now that Brethrenism took shape under the influence of a delusion, and that delusion was a decisive element in all of its distinctive features



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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”Behold, I tell you a mystery*; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.” 1Corinthians 15:51-53.


(Continued) We will be all changed , from body to the spirit that is in us. All living things have energy , this in my mind tells me that that energy is spirit.


I beleive in the rapture but not so much as the body going up to meet Jesus as to only your spirit. Those having good spirit are discerned by Jesus and God. This energy we have is in all of us , as we do know right from wrong just a hunch or feeling that you have deep inside you. I beleive where the body lies the vulture will be. Tells me that when we are caught up to him that your body stays behind and only your spirit goes.This is my interpetation and not quite the one alot of people have , but feel free to add or atach , as it is not for me to judge. Many Blessings.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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I apololigize in advance for what I'm about to say!


Why bother then?


Catholicism is a completely different religion from evangelical, protestant, Lutheran, or any other form of Christianity where folllowers actually read the bible instead of letting a pope, cardinal, or bishop tell them what to think.


Actually they do read the Bible. Why do those other churches have any need of clergy if they don't have any teaching beyond private study?



If Catholicism was the true way of Christianity it wouldn't be wealthy & powerful,


Why, and are all Protestants living in poverty?


Satan would have destroyed it long ago


so are the other churches not christian either, since he has not destroyed them?


not to mention all the paganism and Voodoo going on in third world countries that claim to be Catholic.


You may not realise this, but the RCC doesn't actually approve or endorse all of that. Any more than the Southern Baptists endorse the Nation Of Islam.


The fact that the Catholic Church altered the 10 commandments


...is not a "fact" at all, like all the other swill that anti-catholics peddle to feel good about their own sectoids.

That all you got? No wonder the Catholic apologists don't lose any sleep over you bigots. I'm an atheist and even I can blow off your whole act.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 09:05 AM
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Try to find this commandment in the Catholic version:
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

The Catholics removed this commandments!

The Catholic church is full of statues of Mary, saints, crosses, rosseries, etc.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
She's obviously more intelligent than you are.


Not that I agree with your statement, but even if she was more intelligent, then so what? She has still failed to have a legitimite debate with Terral.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
BTW .. Marg is bilingual and English is her second language. Can you speak 2 languages fluently?


Holy Moly, two languages, really? Wow, I am so impressed.

But Hold on, I just came from a "Kwik-E-Mart" where the guy who sold me my pack of smokes is BI-LINGUAL. Holy crap, I should have asked him for advice and direction because, you know, being bi-lingual makes you a genius, right?!


Originally posted by FlyersFan
ALL of these rapture interpretations are already on those threads that i posted. To insult people because they FOLLOW THE RULES and do not repost and repost the same information is WRONG of you to do.


Insult: An insolent or contemptuously rude action or remark; affront.

Based on the definition I have provided I would have to say that "you're prone to exaggeration". I did not insult Marg, I simply offered my opinion that I have not found many of her posts to be particularly intelligent.


Originally posted by FlyersFan
In reference to Marg. MARG earned her title. You have not earned it. Do you even know how to? It doesn't look like it.


In absolute and total honesty, I have zero desire at all to earn any title on ATS as it would be rather meaningless to me. I'm far more interested in decent debate and keeping up with all the fascinating UFO information that is offered here.

It sounds like you put a lot of emphasis on "titles and names" even when they're of little consequence on a message board of all places. You must be quite the model citizen being so quick to respect a title or semblance of authority.

Pokey Oats



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Is the tribulation Rapture Biblical

Taking into consideration that the popular rapture of modern day are teachings of Evangelical and Charismatic Churches , we may ask from where they got their ideas.

After all through the last hundred years the tribulation has become a well know topic and has attracted many believers, also it has become a very complicated topic after the popularity made it into an expanded issue to keep the believers hook.

I will like to point out that for over eighteen centuries the church never touched the subject , bringing suspicions as why is talk about now.

The teachings of the secret tribulation rapture as a doctrine never existed until 1830 after taking the Scriptures and linking words and passages to make a point of its existence.

Actually The first person to be credited for the doctrine was a women named Margaret Macdonald A self proclaimed prophetess no even a theologian.

But many after the tribulation became popular has gone through pains to find others that may have links to this believes. Occurs if you are an end of times book of revelation believer then you may have though about the idea of a tribulation/rapture for the chosen ones.

For more information of the Birth of tribulation read Christian journalist Dave McPherson book on the subject.

He claims that the women in question had a private revelation of the end of times and that only A few Christians will be chosen.

Funny that the so called Private Revelation has become so popular in churches now and so profitable for book writers.

Also very conveniently an eye and ear witness Robert Norton M.D. (a doctor) preserved her handwritten account her pre trib rapture revelation making very nicely into two books.

This man made the links necessary between other Catholic Apostolic church literature and thanks to a visitor named John Darby or the Brethren, the new doctrine was born.

He also took credits for the so call pre tribulation birth.

Now people are to fall for the whole new school of thought because a women has private revelations of the pre tribulations and rapture .

Here and there the so called experts on the matter are popping out with their own accounts and have gutted the bible to find links to this new movement.

Perhaps many will fall for it but also is many that are seen this new phenomena for what it is, another way to make money while making people support the profiteers of dooms day believes.

The bible has always become the preferred book to make points when it comes to faith, believes and others, it will not be the last time that a doctrine will be born after gutting the bible one more time.

When the death can never be call back to explain what they wrote what they wrote in the bible if they did wrote it to begin with.

No wonder is so many denominations of churches in America, people can not sit and interpret the bible and have the same opinion, everybody has to make it work to their onw interpretations and believes.



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