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The Rapture Conspiracy Explained

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posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
Flyer’s opinions and a quarter buy nothing here.


except a call for the mods to give this thread a swift kick in the pants down to BTS .. where all the other scriptural debates on the Rapture are.

Like I said .. all your scritpure quotes ... been there/done that. The back and forth debate is already on some of those threads that I showed you.

Don't listen. Whatever. It's your problem.




posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by Terral

Marg. You represent yourself as a “Scholar,” but also enter this debate without “quoting >>” anyone or addressing anything I actually said in the Opening Post. Did I say anything about Darby or anyone else’s interpretations? No. Where do you guys get off playing these ‘bait and switch’ tactics, while pretending to offer rebuttal testimony to ANYTHING? Now you can take a turn at actually ‘quoting me


Nice comeback and very well worded, you are holding an impressive debate Terral, and your calm and decency is extremely worthy.

I ultimately agree with your assessment that the detractors have had their say without offering anything of any value, nor were they able to effectively counter any points you made.

I think this is particularly disappointing given that "Marge" has the Scholar title. That in itself has baffled me for quite some time, I've seen numerous posts by her and they are neither scholarly, nor intelligent.

Well done though Terral, I like the points you've made in your post and don't have anything to come back with. I do however agree with your assessment of other posters and think it a shame given that some have "titles".

Pokey Oats



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 03:42 PM
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Marg:


Marg >> The problem is that faith and believes base on faith can not be debated unless you are trying to prove a personal point.


The problem with your opinion is that God’s Word says something very different indeed. What is the point of Scripture asking “Where is the debater of this age?” 1Cor. 1:20? Paul writes,


”For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.” 1Cor. 11:19


Marg wants to pretend that Scripture offers no avenue at all for true believers to determine who is and who certainly IS NOT “approved” before men and God:


“Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.” 2Tim. 2:15.


The ‘word of truth’ is God’s Living and Active (Heb. 4:12) Word, as in the God-breathed Scriptures (2Tim. 3:16-17). No sir. Marg is dead wrong here and more wrong than Darby and his Dispensationalists. Debating the truth of Scripture reveals the deepest intentions of one’s own heart:


For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” Hebrews 4:12.


Shall I speculate upon the true motive and intention of my debating opponents on this thread? None of them can write two solid sentences of ‘accurately handled’ commentary on this Rapture topic to save their souls. What did she ‘quote >>’ from my two part OP and even attempt to refute using Scripture? NOTHING. There is no evidence that she even had her Bible open to prepare her rebuttal. Her “faith and believes base on faith” nonsense is ‘her’ personal point having nothing at all to do with any interpretation of God’s Word at all.


Marg >> Is not debate on what I believe, my opinions and my interpretations of what people of faith call the holy book or holy Scriptures.


Jesus Christ is “The Word” (John 1:1-3) of God made flesh (John 1:14) and the Holy Scriptures are “The Word” of God made flesh in ‘written’ form. The 66 books of Scripture are LIVING and ACTIVE, but all of man’s works are DEAD. The right interpretation of God’s Word is the one saying EXACTLY what God says without creating a single contradiction. Readers should be comparing the testimony of everyone to what appears in God’s Word. My “1000 Years Before The Tribulation Rapture” Interpretation appears this thread. None of you will find a single contradiction. Do you see one? Great! Please help remove the splinter from my eye. GL.


Marg >> I can not take for fact something that over and over has been proved that is done by human hands, minds and believes. It is nothing to prove, no conspiracy but the faithful believes of one and its personal interpretation.


You are wrong, Marg. The Denominations have been selling the ‘pre, mid and post-tribulation’ Rapture interpretations for a very long time and ALL of them are DEAD WRONG. You and I are living in the ‘mystery’ time never seen by any of the OT Prophets. There is NO Old Testament ‘prophecy’ being fulfilled in our days. NONE. We are living in a time just prior to the START of the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord.” The “end of the age” events of Matthew 24 are still OVER a 1000 years in the future! I challenge everyone here to prove Terral wrong. : 0 )


This thread belongs in BTS.


Heh . . . Right. Nobody has presented the Rapture of our church taking place 1000 years ‘before’ the Great Tribulation of Matthew 24 until now, but Marg believes this is ‘below’ top secret stuff. How about if you go and prepare your arguments for what Paul is teaching in 1Cor. 15:51-55 and 1Thes. 4:13-17 and we allow our gracious Mods do their thing? GL in the debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Pokey Oats
I think this is particularly disappointing given that "Marge" has the Scholar title. That in itself has baffled me for quite some time, I've seen numerous posts by her and they are neither scholarly, nor intelligent.


She's obviously more intelligent than you are.

BTW .. Marg is bilingual and English is her second language. Can you speak 2 languages fluently?

ALL of these rapture interpretations are already on those threads that i posted. To insult people because they FOLLOW THE RULES and do not repost and repost the same information is WRONG of you to do.

In reference to Marg. MARG earned her title. You have not earned it. Do you even know how to? It doesn't look like it. She's following the rules. I suggest that you review the rules in regards to reposting information that is already being discussed elsewhere and withhold the barbs. Marg doesn't deserve them.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 04:15 PM
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Many times religious issues are debated vehemenently by persons perceiving themselves as highly religious or spiritual. In these cases it becomes apparent who is solidly founded in their faith and who is simply a young soul straining for the sky. Let us all remember that those who cannot see beyond the end of their nose are not to be condemned, they are to be instructed. If they refuse to learn and retreat into their predetermined notions and refuse to hear reason then they are truly not ready for the truth. No amount of argument, fighting or reasoning will lead to their seeing the truth until their soul has been prepared through the meting effect of the spirit. These are best left alone to stumble in darkness until the light that is within them is followed.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 04:17 PM
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Hi Pokey Oats:


Pokey >> Nice comeback and very well worded, you are holding an impressive debate Terral, and your calm and decency is extremely worthy.


Thank you very much. My patience is being tested by the fact that none of my critics appear qualified to write on this topic. Everyone here should agree that tearing anything down takes much less skill and patience than building your dream home. If any of my debating opponents are college level students, then I have been debating these topics with scholars around the world since long before they were born; long before anyone invented the internet. A ton of gray hair tends to instill an air of ‘calm’ in many folks. : 0 )


I ultimately agree with your assessment that the detractors have had their say without offering anything of any value, nor were they able to effectively counter any points you made.


We agree. I am hoping that one among them will make some attempt to offer interpretations of these verses to help support their “The Rapture Is A Myth” hypothesis. Can I write off the topic for a minute to give an example? I am certain that the Pentagon was struck by a Tomahawk Missile on 9/11 and NOT a Boeing 757-200 Jetliner. I wrote on CatHerder’s thread ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) and proved my case, but saying “No Flight 77 Is Present” is the rant of a scoffer – right? So I presented the evidence in a new thread here ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) and the OP is going to the bottom of the Board without a single reply. What the readers need from these scoffers is ‘proof’ in the form of ‘evidence’ that shows exactly what they are saying without creating a single contradiction. Scoffers, mockers, stone chuckers and ‘cut and paste’ theologians have no credibility with anyone actually seeking ‘the truth’ on any topic. If any of these “Darby Did It” scoffers cause a single person to stumble and fall over the truth of this topic, then it is your OWN FAULT. God rewards us (2Cor. 5:10) for cutting straight (2Tim. 2:15) the word of truth and giving that to our brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus free of charge, whether they believe the truth or not. I am not going to run around saying, “Hey, believe me!” Heh . . . Believe the truth because my explanations agree 100 percent with God’s Word, or help me to see things your way with Scriptural ‘evidence.’


I think this is particularly disappointing given that "Marge" has the Scholar title. That in itself has baffled me for quite some time, I've seen numerous posts by her and they are neither scholarly, nor intelligent.


I usually disconnect the rewards gismos from Boards, because they force some people to write for the conveniences of men rather than God. Gal. 1:10. This place is more complicated than most Bible Boards and only time will tell if that is even possible.


Well done though Terral, I like the points you've made in your post and don't have anything to come back with. I do however agree with your assessment of other posters and think it a shame given that some have "titles".


Just weigh everyone’s testimony to the truth of God’s Word and allow the chips to fall where they may. You and I will stand before God to be rewarded with gold (1Cor. 3:12) if our work is good and with coal and dark smoke in our heavenly garment if bad. Many will wish they kept silent (1Cor. 14:34) during these deliberations and remained “quiet” (1Tim. 2:12), because their golden rewards (and even vast kingdoms) will be handed to another. : 0 )

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Terrel
I think you have done an awesome job here and I once had the same conclusion but now I'm more of a midtribber. 2nd thess chp 2 talks about when it will happen "that first there will be a great falling away and then the lawless one will be revealed" also luke 21 i forget the verse (its towards the end) Jesus tells us "to pray that we may be accounted worthy to escape all these things" and as you probally know Luke 21 is talking about the last days. Also I think we see a glimpse of the rapture in Isaiah 57:1 "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come." Now granted you could interpret other ways but I think they are refferring to the end times where many are martyred and "those who are alive and remain shall be caught up in the clouds".

In rev chpt 3 John see's an open door and Jesus says "come up here". After chpt 3 the church isnt mentioned anymore and we see God using jewish prophets again with the 144,000 to evangelize the world. Also if the rapture is to occur at the second coming then what we get caught up only to turn around and come right back? Where is the wedding feast of the bride?

I'll work up a more researched and indepth post for you..

BTW i get a lil noided by the myth sayers too but dont sweat the small stuff they can hold to that train of thought until the rapture actually happens.



You have voted Terral for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.
:



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:00 PM
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Terral. The reason i did not write a Paragraph or two on the source that I provided is because the SOURCE has all of the information you need. Why should I have write a in depth explanation of an article when I provided to you? These to me sounds like you did not even read the sources that I provided you. And as for my comments not being on topic. Well yes they are because its about the RAPTURE. If i started talking about how horrible the PS3 is going to be then I would be off topic. But until then I am still 100% on topic


Have fun taking passages from the bible out of context. As flyers said, this should be in BTS and has already been discussed to death.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:09 PM
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Flyer:


Flyer >> except a call for the mods to give this thread a swift kick in the pants down to BTS .. where all the other scriptural debates on the Rapture are.


Perhaps those threads belong on the BTS Forum, because they represent the interpretations from the ‘Pre, Mid and Post-Tribulation Rapture’ wantabe Bible Commentators who are all DEAD WRONG. There is nothing at all in any of your posts to give anyone the idea that you understand my hypothesis, OR are remotely qualified to offer interpretations for or against my position. You cut and pasted a long list of BTS threads from a ‘Rapture’ search. Fine. Anybody can do that. However, how many of those thread starters offered an interpretation that placed our rapture 1000 years before the Tribulation? Without reading any of them I am willing to wager the answer is ZERO. You brought your big mouth to this thread ranting about Darby without realizing that my hypothesis says he is DEAD WRONG. Hal Lindsay is wrong and Billy Graham and every ‘professing’ Bible Scholar of our day. Suppose for one minute that Terral is right and all of these men are wrong. In THAT case are you willing to concede this thread belongs right where it sits today? Because, THAT is exactly what my two part OP proposes AND proves using Scripture.

If your beef with me is that Darby is wrong, then we are on the same side of the fence; just you do not know it yet. The presence of the ‘two gospels of the NT’ ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) is the single most important ATS topic in the Religions Forum BY FAR with the “Trinity” ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) Hoax coming in second. However, the truth of Rapture Topic is one that has escaped the notice of ALL the Denominations and I ‘know for certain’ the information in the OP is 100 percent correct. All you have to do is “quote me >>” and point out any errors using your Bible. The problem is that you cannot and nobody can, because we are indeed living near the end of a mystery time that concludes with the START of the 1000 Years (2Pet. 3:8) “Day of the Lord” (2Pet. 3:8, 1Thes. 5:1+2). ANY interpretation that connects ‘our’ mystery Rapture to the events of Matthew 24 (end of the age) is DEAD WRONG. Understanding why that statement is true leads to a treasure trove of other important truths that will indeed “set you free.”


Flyer >> Like I said .. all your scritpure quotes ... been there/done that. The back and forth debate is already on some of those threads that I showed you.


No sir. Maybe these passages have been explained by other people in other threads, but NONE of them place our Rapture 1000 years BEFORE the events of Matthew 24. All you are doing is filling this thread with ranting and nonsense. I hope the Mods will forbid you from ever writing on any of my threads in the future. The ATS members of today and the future in search of ‘the truth’ on this topic will be forced to endure your crass comments and attempts to belittle everyone trying to help others find their way. Now you are ranting on my other threads and if our Mods, symbolizing the ‘heavenly authorities’ (Ephesians 3:10), allow this badgering to continue, then this Board is not worthy of serious writers who ‘are’ qualified and willing to write on these very important topics.


Flyer >> Don't listen. Whatever. It's your problem.


No sir. This is a Board problem when hecklers and flamers are allowed to write off-topic dribble and muddy up the threads for everyone else. If you cannot write on the topic and offer meaningful arguments for or against the thread starter’s hypothesis, then pick a topic where you ‘do’ have some knowledge. Members have been banned from other Boards for doing less than you have already done on my threads . . .

Wise up and just go away . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

[edit on 25-9-2006 by Terral]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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I belive what Marge and Flyer's Fan are asking for, is a direct quote from a book, written before the julian year of 1800. If you can find one, then the debate about the rapture can take place. If not, then a debate cannot go on about the rapture, because you'll have failed to prove the rapture is going to happen at all.

How can you debate something that does not exist? It's like debating how many spots the monster under my bed has. Useless.

And don't quote Paul either, that two timing lying SOB. He cheated the apostles, and they hated his lunacy, heresy and lies, telling others what Jeheshua was here to do. Paul NEVER even MET Jeheshua. So quoting him gets you no credit here.

Come up with a quote about a rapture written before the time of Darby, and we'll start the discussion.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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Terral

Is not my intelligence or my credentials that are been question here but beside picking and choosing all you got is your own personal interpretation of something that is actually of recent occurrence.

You can not add something to the bible when you know that is not there to begin with.

But like many believers you are just using the bible to make sense of what you believe with no prove what so ever but what you think make sense.

So the only one been questioned here is you and your motives.


[edit on 25-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 05:48 PM
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Hi Diem:


Diem >> And im done Terral. The reason i did not write a Paragraph or two on the source that I provided is because the SOURCE has all of the information you need.


No sir. What do the posting guidelines say?


"MEMBERS: Do not simply post news articles in the forums without comment. If you feel inclined to make the board aware of current events, please post the first paragraph, a link to the entire story, AND your opinion, twist or take on the news item.


Posting links without ‘your take’ would fill the archives with everything but what the Board Originators and future members searching those archives are seeking. My comments to you are in keeping with ATS Board Guidelines for all members posting in all these Forums.


Diem >> Why should I have write a in depth explanation of an article when I provided to you? These to me sounds like you did not even read the sources that I provided you.


You are very perceptive indeed. My duty here is to defend ‘my’ hypothesis from the Opening Post of this thread from attack by any registered member of this Board. Pasting links is throwing effort after foolishness. Surely you must be educated and studied enough to write your own commentary on someone’s topic somewhere in this VAST Online Community. There are many more ‘readers’ to these threads than active participants in the Debate. If all you can muster is pasting links, then be counted among the ‘readers.’ Some of us have spend our entire lives in dedicated study of Scripture in order to finally realize maturity enough to present these things soundly for the benefit of others seeking the same things. The notion that you will paste a link with the pretense of succeeding in anything simply boggles my mind . . . Let’s not confuse activity with accomplishment. : 0 )


And as for my comments not being on topic. Well yes they are because its about the RAPTURE. If i started talking about how horrible the PS3 is going to be then I would be off topic. But until then I am still 100% on topic


Heh . . . Okie. You quoted nobody (posted on 24-9-2006 at 04:42 PM (post id: 2508545) in your “Sorry But . . .” post (pun in there someplace . . . Heh) and certainly addressed nothing from my “1000 Years Before The Tribulation” Rapture hypothesis, but did give lip service to Flyer and his ranting (Thanx BTW) and then pasted links to what appears to be the Roman Catholic Library apart from your twist or anything else. You did use the term “Rapture” five times and three of those were indeed with Caps, so obviously your comrades will agree you did this topic and the members here a great service . . . Lord – Have – Mercy.

Thank you all very much for offering your interpretations of Paul’s teachings in 1Corinthians 15 and 1Thessalonians 4 in this Debate.

GL,

Terral

[edit on 25-9-2006 by Terral]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
emotely qualified to offer interpretations for or against my position.

You are an armchair fundie with an over active ego thinking he has figured out something in scripture that none of the other billions of christians through the 10s of centuries has figured out.
YOU aren't 'qualified' for squat. You have an interpretation. Big freak'n deal. Everyone has one.


You brought your big mouth to this thread ...

I brought facts to this thread (via links of conversations on the board).. which you can't handle. Facts that prove ANY rapture theory is bunk. That isn't having a 'big mouth' .. it's utilizing the board for what it is. Debate. Since there is no rapture, you already lost yours only you haven't figured it out yet.


Suppose for one minute that Terral is right

Suppose for one minute that Terral stops calling himself Terral. You do that .. and it's really strange, ya' know? It's like a bad episode from Sienfeld.


All you have to do is “quote me >>” and point out any errors using your Bible.

Already did. I gave you links that already show that there is no rapture. Your timeline is a red herring. It doesn't matter. The rapture myth has already been exposed on the threads provided.


No sir.

I'm a girl.


The ATS members of today and the future in search of ‘the truth’ on this topic ...

.... And they will find the threads that show there is no proof of any rapture and in fact scripture says just the opposite of a rapture. He who endures to the end will be saved. Which you'd know if you had bothered to look.


will be forced to endure your crass comments and attempts to belittle everyone trying to help others find their way.

Wrong. Will be blessed with the TRUTH and with threads that show there is no rapture.

And you aren't helping people 'find their way'. Rapture is a false 'feel good' doctrine. It also has nothing to do with salvation. It is worse than useless.


Now you are ranting on my other threads

You have one other thread. ONE. I posted one line with two links. That's not a rant and you don't have multiple threads. Therefore .. your statement is a LIE. And the devil is the father of lies ..


qualified and willing to write on these very important topics.

Qualified? Get real! Seriously.


then pick a topic where you ‘do’ have some knowledge.

I did. I know there is no rapture. You'd know it too if you bothered to read any of the links that have been provided to you.


Members have been banned from other Boards for doing less than you have already done on my threads . . .

Wrong.


Wise up and just go away . . .

Right back atchya.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 06:07 PM
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When did the tribulation/rapture became so popular? in recent years?, when the left behind series make the author a very popular fiction writer.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by Terral

Diem >> These to me sounds like you did not even read the sources that I provided you.

You are very perceptive indeed. My duty here is to defend ‘my’ hypothesis from the Opening Post of this thread from attack by any registered member of this Board.


An agenda. A preaching agenda. Refusal to listen to those who disagree or discuss the topic of Rapture myth. Hell bent on pushing his version of 'bible truth'.

Tribfarces send you out to preach??



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 06:11 PM
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Hi Arcane:

Thank you for writing on the Rapture Conspiracy Thread.


Arcane >> Come up with a quote about a rapture written before the time of Darby, and we'll start the discussion.


No sir. You guys have it all wrong. I am not here to play patty cake with those willing to accept only ‘part’ of God’s Word. My case is clearly presented in the two part OP of this thread. What did you “quote >>” from my presentation and prove errant using Scripture? Haaaaaaa! Nothing. If ten ostriches with their heads in the sand have no opposing arguments against my well fortified positions, then what do I care if all of you whine and cry until the cows come home? The Debate has already started and you guys are far behind. Debate is about the ‘presentation of opposing views’ without regard to anybody being convinced of anything. While I might have overestimated my debating opponents here at ATS and perhaps presented too much information in the OP, there is zero chance that anyone already posting will dislodge a single brick of my fortress.

A thousand scoffers and ten thousand of their followers cannot stand against one man with the truth of God’s Living Word. You guys are greatly outgunned in this debate and the wisest among you have lips sewn shut! Prov. 17:28. The folly of your tent on the seashore before the storm is already known to many and soon will be revealed to all . . .

That key in your hand . . . mine. : 0 )

Flyer, Marg, Diem have nothing against my hypothesis and like to slig too much mud around. "Ignore" will make this thread read with fewer odiferous emantions. : 0 )

Flyer, Marg, Diem have nothing against my hypothesis and like to slig too much mud around. "Ignore" will make this thread read with fewer odiferous emanations. : 0 )

GL in the Debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral


[edit on 25-9-2006 by Terral]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 06:58 PM
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Wow, who in their right mind would want to jump into the middle of this? I guess that answers that question! Great info on both sides, however, I have a few questions.

I have done much research in this area but I’m curious, if we the saints of GOD are to rule and reign with Christ for 1000 years of peace, why does your diagram have the Bride of Christ martyred during that time? (Rev. 20.4)

Also, it looks like you are trying to combine Daniel’s 70th week with the release of Satan after the 1000 years. Satan has obviously not been chained yet, since the Beast and the False Prophet are to be cast into the Lake of Fire first.

I see that you have Elijah, returning after Satan is chained, who is the other Witness, since there are TWO.

When Jesus said, “No one knows the day or the hour” then how can we know exactly when He will return. This is a trick question since we could know exactly from the desolation of the third temple (Daniel 8.9). Why would He contradict Himself with the “thief in the night” statement, but then give the exact time (2300 evenings and mornings) of His return from a yet to happen event?

How can he (Satan) be sealed in the abyss had it not been opened first (Rev. 9)?

You have obviously done a lot of study also, just curious.

One last thought from Rev.13.10: If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints.

Hope for the Rapture, but live like there won’t be one.


[edit on 25-9-2006 by MrMicrophone]

[edit on 25-9-2006 by MrMicrophone]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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This thread is interesting...the rapture is driving evangelical movements in the USA , to the detriment of world stability and security. There is a rush to manipulate events in the middle east, as misinterpreted biblical prophesies and passages incite political support, for an administration with their seperate agenda.

The Rapture is a creation by modern ministries. As such, we can ask if anything else in the bible is a creation of that time period. We have varying versions of the bible, some containing books others do not, beliefs other books do not. We can read about competing interests debating if Christ was divine, was God, was not God, etc, etc.


I wonder what the world would be like if the writings of Mary Magedelene were part of the Bible, instead of Pauls? or thomas....or any of the other books left out by roman emperors when they assembled the Bible. We might not be debating of the Rapture exists, but if there is enough healthcare and food for the hungry and poor.

The world was given assembled and edited texts, that favor patriarchal systems to the detriment of everyone. What a tragedy that has befallen Humanity.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 08:19 PM
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Actually the so called great tribulation was taken out of context to make the new phenomena of a rapture of modern days.

Started as bible studies of the book of revelation, a book that the early church took pains to add to the bible because they could not agree as who the author was.

Actually the view was introduced as a futuristic view by the modern church thanks to Darby, the father of dispensationalism.

This was sensationalized by the left behind series and taken advantage by the believers of the end of times.

Even when the tribulation was linked to the Jewish and their struggles with the Romans during 70 AD it was actually a something that affected the Jewish and not the rest of the world.

Now we have a new version of tribulation and rapture because some person decided to do its own interpretation and atract followers.

Let thanks preachers such as Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey.America doom industry

Who is Hal Lindsey and Tim LaHaye?

Profeteers of the end of times and dooms prophecies.

Occurs we have, Pre-Tribulation Rapture, Mid-Tribulation Rapture, Post-tribulation Rapture, Partial Rapture and Split Rapture.

Rapture is becoming a very busy business now a day.

And I am suppouse to agree with the modern version of rapture? And personal opinions?

Now believers of the tribulation/rapture wants to make sense of what they created even as to take the bible out of context to make a point.




[edit on 25-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 10:38 PM
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Terral - Great info.

To those thinking that the rapure was "invented" in the 1800's - please do a bit more research other than reading the incorrect posts or propaganda of others. For starters, you might try reading this:

Available on my website at: Source PDF



The view of the fathers on imminency, and, in some, references to escaping the time of the Tribulation, constitute what may be termed, to quote, Erickson, ‘seeds from which the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture could be developed…” had it not been for the drought in sound exegesis, brought on by Alexandrian allegorism and later by Augustine, one wonders what kind of crop those seeds might have yielded – long before J.N. Darby and the nineteenth century.


What this statememt eludes to is the discussion by early church fathers such as:

Clement of Rome (ca. 90 – 100)
Ignatius of Antioch (d. ca. 98 – 117)
Barnabas (ca. 117-138)
And other manscripts that predate Darby.

Additionally, there are many examples of rapture (pre & post-trib) discussions during later periods – read the document.

One from Brother Dolcino (d. 1307): (From The History of Brother Dolcino, composed in 1316)


…[T]he Antichrist was coming into this world within the bounds of the said three and a half years; and after he had come, then he [Dolcino] and his followers would be transferred into Paradise, in which are Enoch and Elijah. And in this way they will be preserved unharmed from the persecution of Antichrist.



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