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Originally posted by Sun Matrix
The trup being talked about is not in revelations or the Feast of Trumpets. It is the likely the trumpet that was blown on mount Sinai at the giving of the law. EXODUS 20:18 The Jewish day of Pentecost when the Law was given, and the Gentile day of Pentecost when the Spirit was given. This is the Feast of Weeks that ends on Pentecost.
This is the first harvest.
[edit on 28-9-2006 by Sun Matrix]
Sun >> No problem. Except that Terrals posts are not really backed by scripture. I could take it apart piece by piece as others could and have already.
Sun >> He won't address the facts that are presented so it's basically a waste of time. Terral just makes a statement and then throws a scripture verse behind it like it means something when it doesn't.
“At the same time they also learn to be idle, as they go around from house to house [member to member in this case]; and not merely idle, but also gossips and busybodies, talking about things not proper to mention.” 1Timothy 5:13.
Sun >> Look in any of his threads and you will see the same comment. "Terral the scripture says something different than what you are saying."
Sun >> If a man comes to town claiming to be a police officer and I know he is a terrorist, it is my responsibility to point this out.
His failure to answer my simple question, WHAT IS THE NAME OF YOUR GOD should tell you all you know. Wouldn't a man of God be proud of his God. That said, I will sit back and watch for now, the point has been made.
Sun >> And now to comment about the topic. One thousand years of tribulation is a bit farfetched.
Originally posted by Terral
Our Rapture (1Thes. 4:13-17, 1Cor. 15:51-53) has nothing whatsoever to do with anything in Revelation,
I have little idea how your reply addresses anything from the Opening Post or relates to anything to do with this debate.
Sun Matrix >> I agree, the mystery is that the Gentiles are fellowheirs (Quoted Eph. 3:3-6).
Sun Matrix Commentary >> NONE.
He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed “IN” Him (“IN Christ Jesus = Eph. 2:6+7) with a view to an administration [administration of the mystery = Eph. 3:9] suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things “IN” Christ (= blood witness), things in the heavens [spirit witness] and things on the earth [water witness].” Eph. 1:9+10.
“For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles (Fig. 3) -- if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of God’s grace” (center red witness of Fig. 3) which was given to me for you; that by revelation (visions and revelations of the Lord = 2Cor. 12:1) there was made known TO ME the mystery, as I wrote before in brief (Eph. 1:9+10).” Eph. 3:1-3.
“By referring to this (his upcoming chapter 3 dissertation), when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, which in other generations was NOT made known to the sons of men, as it has now (about 62 AD) been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit; that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body (Fig. 3 above), and fellow partakers of the promise IN Christ Jesus through the gospel, of which I was made a minister, according to the gift of God's grace which was given to me according to the working of His power.” Ephesians 3:4-7.
“To me, the very least of all saints, this grace was given, to preach to the Gentiles (mystery among the Gentiles = Col. 1:27 = Christ in you) the unfathomable riches of Christ, and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery (Fig. 2 above) which for ages has been hidden in God who created all things; so that the manifold (multilayered like many coats of paint atop one another) wisdom of God might now (beginning in 62 AD, after the close of Acts) be made known through the church (that’s us) to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places (see center of Fig. 1 just under the Father = Heavenly Places “IN” Christ Jesus = Mods of that Intercessory Realm). This was in accordance with the purpose for the ages (mystery of His will = Eph. 1:9+10) which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord . . .”. Eph. 3:8-11.
Sun >> I also agree that Cornelius is the first fruits of this mystery.
Sun >> SPARKY --- Are you Pre trib, mid trib or Post trib?
Originally posted by Terral
This question reveals the seeming ignorance on full display among my debating opponents in this debate,
as my hypothesis is that ALL three of these interpretations from modern day scholars are indeed DEAD WRONG.
The theology of Sun Matrix cannot even fathom the notion that ‘another’ interpretation of Scripture is the right one.
the vast majority of professing Christians from the Denominations are totally oblivious
Their heads are so stuffed full with Denominational Garbage, that insufficient “RAM” space is available for us to even carry on a meaningful conversation on what ‘is’ actually presented in the OP of this thread.
Jen >> That's a good post, and I tend to believe what you said. I have done some study on the feasts, and I have every reason to believe Christ will fulfill the rest, just as he has the feast 'past'.
Jen >> I want to make it clear to you though....I do...I do believe Jesus is coming back for us....I just think "When" is what has many interpretation.
Jen >> I don't think we will know for a fact when we are in tribulation....we've been in tribulation for 2000 years.
Jen >> I also think the seven year tribulation was brought on the Jews 2000 years ago.
Jen >> Daniels 70 weeks, time of Jacobs trouble. It took 7 years for Jerusalem to completely fall.
Jen >> But in the midst of that week, the sacrifice ceased. If you are interested...I can send you a link on the history of the fall of Jerusalem.
In the year 66 AD the Jews of Judea rebelled against their Roman masters. In response, the Emperor Nero dispatched an army under the generalship of Vespasian to restore order. By the year 68, resistance in the northern part of the province had been eradicated and the Romans turned their full attention to the subjugation of Jerusalem. That same year, the Emperor Nero died by his own hand, creating a power vacuum in Rome. In the resultant chaos, Vespasian was declared Emperor and returned to the Imperial City. It fell to his son, Titus, to lead the remaining army in the assault on Jerusalem.
The Roman legions surrounded the city and began to slowly squeeze the life out of the Jewish stronghold. By the year 70, the attackers had breached Jerusalem's outer walls and began a systematic ransacking of the city. The assault culminated in the burning and destruction of the Temple that served as the center of Judaism.
In victory, the Romans slaughtered thousands. Of those sparred from death: thousands more were enslaved and sent to toil in the mines of Egypt, others were dispersed to arenas throughout the Empire to be butchered for the amusement of the public. The Temple's sacred relics were taken to Rome where they were displayed in celebration of the victory.
The rebellion sputtered on for another three years and was finally extinguished in 73 AD with the fall of the various pockets of resistance including the stronghold at Masada.
Jen >> The Jewish Revolt against the Romans started in 66 AD, and the temple was destroyed in 70 AD, and the last Jewish strong hold fell in 73 AD & that was Masada. That's seven long years of terrible tribulation, famine, destruction of the temple, pestilence etc. Yes I guess you could say I hold "some" Preterist views, and you hold Futurist views, wether some or all?
“Then the LORD will go forth and fight against those nations, as when He fights on a day of battle. In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east; and the Mount of Olives will be split in its middle from east to west by a very large valley, so that half of the mountain will move toward the north and the other half toward the south.” Zechariah 14:3+4.
Jen >> Yeah, I saw your fights with the fella's at that site. It reminded me of something.
Originally posted by toolman
Marg, many people believe the sybilline oracles to be the prototype or even the first draft for the book of revelations in the Bible.
Emperor constantine ( 326 AD) brought together council to decide how the bible should be assembled, if Christ was divine, what books would be included, which should not, etc.
At that time Rome was fracturing, losing its legendary glory, and place in the world. Religious beliefs were deciding political events ( sound familar ? ), special interests in Rome had to be pacified, and therefore dictated how the Bible was assembled. The Christian population already won over by the emperor declaring it the national religion, how to bring in people in the Roman Empire who did not believe in what would become the bible...
Drop in the Sybilline oracles. dress it up, call it the book of revelations, which the oracles had been called for hundreds of years already...Presto, now both sides of the aisle are happy, compromise is achieved, and humanity has been left with something Christ never intended.
Originally posted by Sun Matrix
Constantine had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with choosing the book of the Bible.
This is a false statement
Originally posted by toolman
Constantine Financed 50 parchment copies of the bible .... SO much of christs life missing, and yet we have so much of pauls nonsense included...
Originally posted by FlyersFan
I'm going to have to look into the Constantine angle. I don't have that anywhere in my books here.
[edit on 10/1/2006 by FlyersFan]