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The Rapture Conspiracy Explained

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posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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Greetings:

Another invention of the Denominations is represented by the pre, mid and post-tribulation Rapture interpretations by modern day theologians. The Rapture of our mystery church (Ephesians 5:32) is prophesied by the Apostle Paul and ‘only’ by him in his thirteen Epistles to Gentiles. The common error of Bible Commentators today is they mix the events of ‘our’ mystery Rapture with Christ’s “Olivet Discourse” detailing things taking place at the ‘end of the age’ (Matthew 24:3+). To straighten out the mess created by the scholars of our day, we must come to realize that anything Paul attaches to “the mystery” (Ephesians 3:3, Colossians 1:26) was NOT seen by any of the Old Testament prophets. Paul makes that connection in describing these things to the Corinthians, saying,


”Behold, I tell you a mystery*; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.” 1Corinthians 15:51-53.


Paul uses this term “musterion*” (#3466) twenty times in his Epistles to describe things “hidden in God” (Ephesians 3:9) to be revealed ONLY through his ministry. Hebrews, Peter, John and James never use the term in any Epistle bearing their names. Paul writes,


”For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles [that’s us] -- if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of God's grace which was given TO me FOR you; that by revelation there was made known TO ME the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.” Ephesians 3:1-3.


Peter refers to this body of knowledge and wisdom as the “wisdom given him” (Paul) in 2Peter 3:14-16, which men continue to distort today to their ‘own destruction.’ To settle all dispute that our mystery transformation to immortality is certainly a doctrine OF GOD and NOT MEN, we have only to read Paul’s words to the Thessalonians, saying [my notes],


“But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus [dead raised imperishable = 1Cor. 15:52]. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet [1Cor. 15:52] of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up* [harpazo #726 = Rapture] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” 1Thessalonians 4:13-17.


While many among the Denominations can agree upon the notion that a ‘Rapture’ certainly exists in Scripture, they disagree over the ‘timing’ of this seemingly miraculous event. Paul solves this mystery by making clarifying statements to these Thessalonians where he never mentions any Old Testament prophet, never quotes anything from the Old Testament or makes any attempt to connect ‘our’ mystery gathering to the ‘end of the age’ events of Matthew 24. Paul says,


Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. For you yourselves know full well that the Day of the Lord WILL COME just like a thief in the night.


Paul just connected our mystery Gathering (Rapture) to the time when the ‘times and epochs’ of the “1000 Years” (2Peter 3:8, Rev. 20:5) “Day of the Lord” (2Peter 3:10 = Lord’s Day = Rev. 1:10) BEGINS.

(Continued)




posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 10:48 AM
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Take a moment and allow the components of this truth to settle into your being. These Thessalonians became very upset over the rumors that the “Day of the Lord” had already started without them, which lead to the need for Paul’s Second Epistle To The Thessalonians where he says,


Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ AND our gathering together to Him[1Thes. 4:16+17], that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord HAS COME.” 2Thessalonians 2:1-2.


Again, allow the truth of Paul’s statement to find a home deep within your being; that these Thessalonians were disturbed over rumors that this “Day of Christ” (translated Day of the Lord here) HAS COME.” These Thessalonians witnessed none of the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3+) events of Christ’s Olivet Discourse, which BTW was not even written by Matthew for another decade or so. Paul told the Thessalonians in his first Epistle to “lead a quite life” (1Thes. 4:11) just prior to revealing the ‘Rapture’ scenario in the following verses. That is the exact opposite of Christ’s warnings to the Twelve concerning the End of the Age marked by wars, rumors of wars, famines, earthquakes, etc..

The reason these seeming contradictions exist is because Paul is describing how the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord” BEGINS, while Christ (Matt. 24) is describing how the same 1000 Years Period ENDS! Our modern day theologians and Bible commentators have failed to give the “Day of the Lord” a “one thousand years” DURATION. However, Christ Himself fills in the blanks by connecting the ‘times and epochs’ (1Thes. 5:1+2), about which these Thessalonians had “no need” for anything to be written, directly to the ‘restoration of the kingdom to Israel’ in answering His disciple’s question:


“So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority . . .”. Acts 1:6+7.


Jesus Christ knew the precise fourth quarter events of the “Day of the Lord,” which He gives in sequential order in Matthew 24:3-31. However, He hasn’t the faintest idea when that same 1000 Years “Day of the Lord” WILL BEGIN.


"But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.” Matthew 24:36.


Christ (Matthew 24:43) and Peter (2Peter 3:10) and Paul (1Thes. 5:2) all agree that the ‘Day of the Lord’ COMES like a thief in the night, because The Father Himself has fixed the timing of these things by His Own Authority. Paul had no need to write the Thessalonians about these “Day of the Lord” events, where the ‘times and epochs’ concerning the restoration of all things (Matt. 17:10-11*, Acts 3:21*-26, 15:16-18) to Israel are all fulfilled; because you and I (the saved) will see those events from heaven! Elijah must return to restore all things*, but only AFTER our mystery ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12) is Raptured up to meet the Lord in the air.



Find “Today” near the center of the diagram on the Mystery/Prophecy Timeline. We are approaching the ‘start’ of the “1000 Year Day of the Lord” shaded in blue where the “Bride Matures” under Elijah’s restored Kingdom to Israel. The “end of the age” events of Christ’s Olivet Discourse (Matt. 24) take place on the far right hand side of that restoration period shaded in purple. This conspiracy has been generated by merging the ‘beginning’ and ‘end’ of the “Day of the Lord” together into a single series of ‘events,’ when in reality this ‘restoration of all things’ (Acts 3:21) period has a duration of 1000 years.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 11:11 AM
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Well done, Terral. There are some Christians who believe that the rapture has already occured (in 1876, I think) and that we are now in the Millenial Age. I believe Rotherham was one of them. Have to check my facts on that. Anyway, you just got my last WATS vote.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 11:19 AM
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Bravo Terral... It has always amazed me that 'The Rapture' has become such a mainstream component of western religion. I find it difficult to believe that anyone who has actually read the Bible could put so much weight in the idea.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 11:25 AM
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The big conspiracy regarding 'the Rapture' is .... *drull roll* ... there is NO such thing as a Rapture.

That's right. No Rapture. No great promise. No easy out.

This has all already been discussed, at length, on several threads including this one - www.belowtopsecret.com...

The Rapture Cult was started by failed Anglican Priest Nelson Darby in the mid-1800s. It was a get-out-of-tribulation-free cult. Soul candy. Tastes great but has no substance and is definately not good for ya.

Sorry kiddos but there is no 'get out of tribulations free' card.

Jesus Prayed – ‘I do not ask that you take them out of the world but that
you keep them from the evil one’ – John 17:15

Those who ‘suffer with Him (for His sake) through the terrors of the last
days will at that time ‘also be glorified with Him’ (Romans 8:17)

the one ‘who endures to the end will be saved”
(Matthew 24:13; see also 10:22)


Originally posted by Terral
While many among the Denominations can agree upon the notion that a ‘Rapture’ certainly exists in Scripture.......


Well ... considering that there are 2 billion Christians on this planet and that only a relative handful actually believe in the rapture cult .. I have to disagree with the statement 'many .... agree upon the notion of a rapture'. Of the 2 billion christians on the planet, it's just a handful of fundamentalists - Baptists, Church of Christ, Pentacostals, etc. - that actually follow the rapture cult. That's a very small percentage of Christians. Most dismiss it.

Like I said .. No Rapture ... and it's been discussed at length here -
www.belowtopsecret.com...





[edit on 9/24/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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FlyersFan:


FlyersFan >> That's right. No Rapture. No great promise. No easy out.


Your unbelief has no place on this thread at all. You are free to “quote >>” from my Opening Post and the Apostle Paul, Jesus Christ or anyone else AND to offer your ‘opposing views’ using Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. The teachings in 1Corinthians 15:51-55 and 1Thessalonians 4:13-17 are obviously teaching SOMETHING. “Your” interpretations on what ‘that something’ might be are 1000 times more valuable to your readers than the current “Ostrich” approach finding your head stuffed deeply into the ground. Nobody cares what others believe or your opinions about when they began or stopped believing them. This debate is over what the Bible teaches regarding the Rapture (1Thes. 4:17) clearly described in our Bible AND in the Opening Post of ‘this’ thread. I searched the topic “Rapture” and found no thread titles with that word on the first ten pages of this “Conspiracies In Religions” Forum.

Please write on the topic and thesis of ‘this’ thread and address what is actually found in the Opening Post, or kindly excuse yourself from participating.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral


[edit on 24-9-2006 by Terral]



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
Your unbelief has no place on this thread at all.


Wrong. This site is a place of discussion, education, and debate. That's the entire purpose of this site. If you can't hold your position against someone who disagrees with it .. then that's your problem.


You are free to “quote >>” from ...

I'm free to quote from anything I darn well please. I don't need your permission. I quoted Sacred Scripture right back to you. It's the Word of God. Guess if you don't like what God says, then you'll have to take it up with Him.


Nobody cares what others believe or your opinions about when they began or stopped believing them. T

You can't speak for everyone.


I searched the topic “Rapture” and found no thread titles ...

Then do another search. Religion ... BTS .. it's where all the Rapture threads end up. Tons of them. RAPTURE in the thread topic .. BTS .. from the start of this site. I posted just one link to a bunch. It's all been discussed. The reason it's in the BTS section is because it's a matter of INTERPRETATION.


Please write on the topic ...

I did. Rapture. You MISTAKENLY said that many denominations agree it exists in scripture. The FACT is that almost all christians agree that it does NOT exist at all in scripture. In fact, MOST christians agree that scripture says just the opposite of 'rapture'.

The FACT that failed Anglican Priest Nelson Darby invented the Rapture Cult in the mid 1850s is also very much on topic. Not acknowledging this fact is "using the current “Ostrich” approach finding your head stuffed deeply into the ground" .
(*your words to me).

If you have a Rapture agenda, then perhaps tribfarces.com would be a better place to discuss it than here. THIS place is for discussion, debate and education. Information regarding the origins of the rapture cult are definately on topic.

In Christ Jesus,
(who is Truth)
FlyersFan

BTW - the DEVIL is the Father of Lies, and to withhold the truth about the origins of the rapture cult would be a lie.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 12:43 PM
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Terral

Flyers is right the Rapture or so called Rapture is nothing more than an invention of the latest century by The Rapture Cult was started by failed Anglican Priest Nelson Darby in the mid-1800s.

It was a matter of personal interpretation and nothing else.

And like she say this is ATS and anybody can bring any comments to any thread post on this board.


If people can believe on a Virgin face on a toast they would belive anything that so called prophets of modern day will bring to their followers.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 02:57 PM
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Flyer:


Flyer >> Wrong. This site is a place of discussion, education, and debate. That's the entire purpose of this site. If you can't hold your position against someone who disagrees with it .. then that's your problem.


Thus far you have failed to ‘quote >>’ anything from the OP and prove anything errant using Scripture. The debate has just started and you are an active participant with opposing views. The third party readers will judge us both! My statement is based upon the fact that you have offered no interpretations of Paul’s teaching in 1Corinthians 15:51-55 OR 1Thessalonians 4:13-17. Simply saying “God does not exist” is only proof of an atheist’s unbelief. Your assertion that “Harpazo” (#726 in 1Thes. 4:17) does not exist falls into the same category.


Flyer >> I'm free to quote from anything I darn well please. I don't need your permission. I quoted Sacred Scripture right back to you.


To address what point? Quoting John 17:5 does not address anything in the OP above. Please forgive me for failing to be more clear: You can quote anything you darn well please, but expect to address something I DID SAY if you expect to prove anything in this debate. Ranting about Darby is not going to refute one thing from ‘my’ Rapture posts above.


Flyer >> It's the Word of God. Guess if you don't like what God says, then you'll have to take it up with Him.


Heh . . . Yes, the Word of God. However, men show themselves approved to men (1Cor. 11:19) and God (2Tim. 2:15) by ‘cutting straight’ the word of truth. Did you provide one word of commentary to prop up whatever interpretation you hold for Matthew 24:13 or 10:22? No. Have you made any attempt to connect our ‘body of Christ’ (Ephesians 4:12) His body church (Col. 1:24) to the events of Matthew 24 at all? No. Good luck in the debate if you ever decide to actually join in . . .


Terral Original >> “Nobody cares what others believe or your opinions about when they began or stopped believing them.”

Flyer >> You can't speak for everyone.


I am free to say anything on this thread I please without your permission. My statements reflect the views of those actually seeking ‘the truth’ on this topic. Does what Darby or what any other dead guy said mean anything outside the Word of God? No. Do all the words of mere men equal a single Word from God? No. Do the math! All Scripture is inspired by God . . . (2Tim. 3:16+17), but not necessarily the words of men. Darby has just as much right to be wrong as anybody else and you will not find me quoting anybody but God, His Word and maybe the Bible Dictionaries.


Flyer >> Then do another search. Religion ... BTS .. (snip)


What goes on over there has nothing to do with this thread. However, now that you mention it – perhaps I should head over there and see if you can stay on the topic.


Terral Original >> Please write on the topic ...

Flyer >> I did. Rapture. You MISTAKENLY said that many denominations agree it exists in scripture.


Please stop mischaracterizing my views and simply “quote me >>” and remove all doubt. The ‘subject’ of my thesis is the Rapture. The Topic concerns my hypothesis that modern day theologians have invented the ‘pre, mid and post-tribulation Rapture interpretations’; that “The Rapture of our mystery church is prophesied” ONLY by the Apostle Paul in his thirteen Epistles to Gentiles. Furthermore, the common error of Bible Commentators today is they mix the events of ‘our’ mystery Rapture with Christ’s “Olivet Discourse” concerning the ‘end of the age.’ However, if YOU wish to rant about other things never even mentioned in ‘my’ OP, then knock yourself out. I am here to defend ‘my’ hypothesis against anyone willing to “quote me >>” and present opposing views using Scripture.

(Continued)



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 03:02 PM
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. . .

Flyer >> The FACT is that almost all christians agree that it does NOT exist at all in scripture. In fact, MOST christians agree that scripture says just the opposite of 'rapture'.


That is your unsupported opinion of what ‘you’ believe most Christians agree upon. Maybe you need to start a thread on Flyer’s high flying views of what Christians believe, where you can also “quote from anything you darn well please.”


Flyer >> The FACT that failed Anglican Priest Nelson Darby . . .


Darby has nothing to do with anything presented in the OP of this thread. The Apostle Paul is my support from 1Cor. 15 and 1Thes. 4, which just happens to be excluded from what you “darn well” would like to quote.


Flyer >> If you have a Rapture agenda, then perhaps tribfarces.com would be a better place to discuss it than here. THIS place is for discussion, debate and education. Information regarding the origins of the rapture cult are definately on topic.


Heh . . . Again, I will “quote from anything I darn well please.” I have posts in this Forum on the Gospel and the Trinity and now the Rapture. The Gospel is how we are saved and the Rapture is how some of us will certainly leave this earth. These three topics represent the largest areas of controversy and conspiracy among the professing Denominations of Christianity. I would love to “quote you >>” and show the folly of ‘your’ interpretations of 1Cor. 15:51-55 and 1Thes. 4:13-17, but you refuse to provide us with your explanations. Go figure! My ‘ostrich’ observations are beginning to see the light of day. Heh . . .

GL with that,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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Dont dismiss Matthew 24:29

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30: and Then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven and Then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Notice the words AFTER THE TRIBULATION. Not Before.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 03:31 PM
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Hi Marg:


Marg >> Flyers is right the Rapture or so called Rapture is nothing more than an invention of the latest century by The Rapture Cult was started by failed Anglican Priest Nelson Darby in the mid-1800s.


Marg. You represent yourself as a “Scholar,” but also enter this debate without “quoting >>” anyone or addressing anything I actually said in the Opening Post. Did I say anything about Darby or anyone else’s interpretations? No. Where do you guys get off playing these ‘bait and switch’ tactics, while pretending to offer rebuttal testimony to ANYTHING? Now you can take a turn at actually ‘quoting me >>’ for what I DID SAY to offer ‘your’ opposing interpretations using Scripture. What part of this simple request are you guys failing to understand?

This is like a Christian starting a thread on Salvation, and a herd of unbelievers rushing in to type, “There is no such thing as salvation. Some Paul guy invented that and this is your evil agenda!” Paul is teaching SOMETHING in 1Corinthians 15:51-53 AND 1Thessalonians 4:13-17, which I did quote and offer commentary for in the OP of this thread. Quote Paul and give us your interpretations . . .


Marg >> It was a matter of personal interpretation and nothing else.


Heh . . . Man-0-man. Are you guys serious? Every word of God is subject to the personal interpretation of somebody. That is what we are here to debate! I gave mine and now you and Flyer and give yours. Please bear with my insisting that you actually come out here and TRY to explain the true interpretation of these verses. Your “Darby is the Devil” conspiracy nonsense changes nothing about ‘the truth’ of what Paul ‘is’ teaching in these passages.


Marg >> And like she say this is ATS and anybody can bring any comments to any thread post on this board.


No sir. We are expected to stay focused and write about THE TOPIC of the thread starter. Flaming other members, Hijacking threads by changing the topic, using bad language, and a long list of other activities are beyond the guidelines established by the originators of this fine Board. Any ‘Thread Starter’ wants to see posts that address the topic and particularly the hypothesis (either way; as advocate or adversary) of his Opening Post. Terral is no different . . .


Marg >> If people can believe on a Virgin face on a toast they would belive anything that so called prophets of modern day will bring to their followers.


We agree. That is why the call has gone out to outstanding Scholars like you to offer arguments for or against ‘my’ hypothesis stated in the first three sentences of the Opening Post for which the evidence in the remainder seeks to prove. Simply compare my work to your reply above in this thread. What makes you believe for one second that I should simply forget three decades of intense study on this topic and surrender to you? Where's the beef? Asking others to simply follow you with NO EVIDENCE at all makes you even more guilty than those following Virgin Toast fanatics. At least they have their toast, while you have proven nothing at all. Do you disagree with my interpretations of the quoted verses? Great! That is what we are here to debate. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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Hi Shar:


Shar >> Dont dismiss Matthew 24:29


My hypothesis says scholars are INCORRECTLY connecting the ‘end of the age’ (Matt. 24:3+) events of Christ’s Olivet Discourse with Paul’s (“mystery” = 1Cor. 15:51) gathering never seen by any of the OT Prophets. Shar quotes from Matthew 24 like that means something. If Christ is describing events OF PROPHECY seen by the OT prophets, BUT Paul is describing things NONE of them were given to see, then obviously Paul and Christ are describing two totally separate events. Why? Because, the OT prophets cannot ‘prophesy’ about components of “the mystery” (Eph. 3:3) remaining “hidden IN GOD” (Eph. 3:9) from the foundation of the world.


Shar >> (Matt. 24:29+30)

Shar’s commentary >> Notice the words AFTER THE TRIBULATION. Not Before.


Heh . . . Notice . . . Are you even aware of the fact that at some point in your commentary that your readers expect a connection to be made between ‘their’ gathering to the Lord and this tribulation period?? The ‘conspiracy’ aspect of this topic is grounded in the absolute fact that those holding these interpretations believe they are above reproach with views accepted by everyone. Shar is so convinced that Christ is speaking about him and our ‘mystery church’ (Eph. 5:32) that he offers eight words of commentary as his convincing proof. Who is Christ addressing in the Four Gospels? To whom was Christ sent?


“But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24.


Paul is addressing “you Gentiles” (Eph. 3:1+2) part of this “dispensation of God’s grace” (Eph. 3:2) that did not even come to exist, until AFTER the start of Acts 9. You are trying to take Christ’s statements to the prophetic kingdom ‘bride’ (John 3:29) and pretend those things have application to the mystery ‘His body’ church (Col. 1:24) of the Pauline Epistles. You may as well go out and begin building an ark (Gen. 6:14), because God was not talking to ‘Christ’s body’ (1Cor. 12:27) either. Christ teaches Israel to obey the commandments to obtain eternal life. Matthew 19:16+17. Are we saved that way today? No. We are saved by what Paul calls his “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message by God’s grace through faith apart from works (Eph. 2:8+9). God is calling Israel through what Scripture calls the “gospel of the kingdom” (Matthew 4:23, 9:35, etc.). I explain the differences here ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ). Christ includes the ‘gospel message’ to be preached to all the world at the ‘end of the age,’ saying


"This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.” Matthew 24:14.


That is the gospel message Elijah will preach, when he returns to restore ‘all things’ (Matthew 17:10-11) for the 1000 Years “Day of the Lord.” The ‘gospel of the kingdom’ will be ‘the gospel’ for that 1000 year period in the same way that Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, 16:25, etc.) is ‘the gospel’ for us today.



The OT (spirit witness) prophesied until John (Matt. 11:13), until he (Matt. 3:2), Christ (Matt. 4:23) and the Twelve (Matt. 10:5-7) offered the ‘gospel of the kingdom' to Israel. Israel’s ‘transgression’ (Rom. 11:11; to be = 'cut off' in diagram 70 AD) resulted in God raising up Paul to give him our gospel for today through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Gal. 1:11+12). We are raptured (1Thes. 4:17), so Elijah can THEN return and restore all things to Israel. The ‘gospel of the kingdom’ and the events of Matthew 24 are the main attractions of the “Day of the Lord” following this “dispensation of God’s grace.” We are taken (1Thes. 4:17) to START that 1000 years, while Christ (Matt. 24) is talking about the END of the same 1000 year period.

In Christ,

Terral



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 04:42 PM
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As stated by flyer the Rapture is nothing more then a myth, much like how jesus was born on X-mas and all of the other holidays that were stolen from other religions in order to convert pagans to christianity.

When you use 'Rapture Conspiracy' as the name of your thread then you should expect people to debate with you especially on a topic regarding this.

Flyers is also correct that only a small part of christians believe in the rapture. Think about it... it was something that was created in the 1800's in the United States... and only the denominations in the USA preach the Rapture(For the most part), only 5-10% of Christians(which are born again protestants for the most part) believe in the rapture. Here are just the first few sources I was able to pull up from google and wikipedia.

Catholics View(Largest denomination in the world by the way with 1billion out of the 2.4 christians being catholic)
www.catholic.com...

www.religioustolerance.org...

And this may be off topic a bit.. but the end of days mentioned in the Bible make much more sense when you associate them around the time the bible was written rather then in this day and age.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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The problem is that faith and believes base on faith can not be debated unless you are trying to prove a personal point.

Is not debate on what I believe, my opinions and my interpretations of what people of faith call the holy book or holy Scriptures.

I can not take for fact something that over and over has been proved that is done by human hands, minds and believes.

It is nothing to prove, no conspiracy but the faithful believes of one and its personal interpretation.

This thread belongs in BTS.



[edit on 24-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 05:01 PM
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You, Terel, said - "My statements reflect the views of those actually seeking ‘the truth’ on this topic."

Well, if you REALLY want the truth about the Rapture Cult then you'd welcome the FACTS on the matter ...

BIG fact #1 - It was invented by Nelson Darby in the mid 1800s.
BIG fact #2 - It is REJECTED by the vast majority of the 2 billion Christians on Earth.
BIG fact #3 - It isn't scriptural as noted in the vast majority of the threads already running on this subject.

If you had bothered to read the link I gave you then you would have seen that scriptural INTERPRETATIONS of the Rapture myth have already been discussed in great detail.

You bring nothing new to the table. It's all been discussed ... all of it. Including your 'challenge' to the readers of this thread to counter your scripture interpretation.

These are some of the MANY threads that are on ATS and BTS already and that are discussing EVERY aspect of the rapture myth and the rapture cult. Go through them. You'll see your interpretation is already amongst the many that have been discussed.

www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.belowtopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You've been here only 2 weeks so you may not have noticed them. I have been here over two years ... so I knew where to find them. Perhaps this list will be of help for you.



[edit on 9/24/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
This thread belongs in PTS.



Hey marg. I'd say BTS .. that religion forum down there. I'm sure the religion forum mods will be taking a look and making a decision as to where it belongs.



posted on Sep, 24 2006 @ 05:04 PM
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my mistake Flyers, thanks for the tip, I fix the post.


[edit on 24-9-2006 by marg6043]



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 02:50 PM
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Hi Diem, Flyer, Marg, Sharetc.:


Deim >> Sorry but . . As stated by flyer the Rapture is nothing more then a myth, much like how jesus was born on X-mas and all of the other holidays that were stolen from other religions in order to convert pagans to christianity.


Please save your “The Rapture Is A Myth” bullony. Here is where the rubber meets the road in this debate: The Apostle Paul is teaching our translation to immortality (1Cor. 15:51-53) and our church being ‘caught up’ (1Thes. 4:17), as quoted and explained in the Opening Post of this thread. If Flyer, Marg, Shar and Deim cannot write two solid paragraphs of commentary on those two passages, then NONE of you have any business writing on this thread. Are you saying that 1Corinthians 15 and 1Thessalonians 4 are not part of God’s Word? Just how much of Scripture are we supposed to tear from our Bibles to make you scoffers happy? None of you have provided our readers with ‘your’ interpretations of what Paul is teaching in these Rapture passages. The true “Myth” (2Timothy 4:4) here is bottled up in ‘your’ assertion that the “Rapture Is A Myth!” These Rapture ‘Critics’ honestly believe that running around yelling “Darby did it” is a fine substitute for actually ‘quoting >>’ these verses and offering a Scripture supported explanation. No sir. Harapazo (#726) from 1Thes. 4:17 (caught up) is also used to describe Philip being 'snatched,’


“When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched* Philip away; and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.” Acts 8:39.


Are you also willing to pretend Philip remained standing with the eunuch to the point of leading others astray with your “Myth!” insinuations? Since your faith is so very little (along with your compatriots), please allow me to quote Paul again:


“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.” 1Thess. 4:16-17.


This marks the moment this world will “no longer” see our “His Body” Church (Col. 1:24) on this earth. Okay boys and girls: If Paul is not describing our “Rapture,” then what is he ‘really’ talking about? I must take a wild guess, because all of your “Myth!” claims include no evidence whatsoever. These critics believe their ability to spell “Darby” qualifies them to make these bold claims! Do you really want to come to the realization of just how foolish these critics are in light of the true evidence? Darby is a ‘pre-tribulation’ Dispensationalist. My thesis is that ALL of those wantabe scholars are DEAD WRONG!!! There is not one good among them “not even one” (Romans 3:12). If any of these scoffers would actually take the time to READ my two part Opening Post, they would see ‘my proposal’ is that our Rapture takes place 1000 years before the Tribulation even starts! Who among the Denominations places our rapture 1000 years before the events of Matthew 24? NONE OF THEM. These well intentioned ATS members simply saw “Rapture” in the topic title and assumed my hypothesis agreed with the subject of their own imaginations. The fact is that maybe one member in five hundred here has even seen my interpretation.


Deim >> When you use 'Rapture Conspiracy' as the name of your thread then you should expect people to debate with you especially on a topic regarding this.


The topic title was selected for easy archive ‘search engine’ access by current and future members. There is nothing I love more than debating the truth of God’s Living Word. However, thus far the membership here appears less than gifted in this department, as NONE OF YOU have even addressed the hypothesis of my OP.

(Continued)



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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You came out here with “Sorry But . . .,” instead of “quoting me >>” to offer your opposing views and Scripture supported arguments for something else. Shame on all of you. A thousand scoffers can write similar “Sorry But . . .” posts on this thread and never harm one hair on my explanations in the OP. You say that Darby and the Dispensationalists with their Pre-Tribulation Interpretations are all wrong. So do I! Thank you all for agreeing with me.


Deim >> Flyers is also correct that only a small part of christians believe in the rapture.


What others believe is another topic altogether. “My” explanations of 1Corinthians 15 and 1Thessalonians 4 either stand or fall on the merits of my Scripture supported arguments above. That is the point I was trying to make with Flyer. Of course you guys can type out anything you like. Heh . . . Bring it! However, your assertions about off-topic ideas of what others believe have nothing to do with Terral or his interpretations on these passages. At some point one of you is required to belly up to the bar and let everyone else in on ‘your’ interpretations of these things. When that happens (If we do not die from old age waiting), then I will have every opportunity to “quote you >>” and show the folly of your errant explanations. Flyer’s opinions and a quarter buy nothing here.


Deim >> Think about it... it was something that was created in the 1800's in the United States... and only the denominations in the USA preach the Rapture(For the most part), only 5-10% of Christians(which are born again protestants for the most part) believe in the rapture. Here are just the first few sources I was able to pull up from google and wikipedia.


LOL . . . You guys make an old man laugh to almost fall off his chair. Just give us your explanations of the verses from my OP and everything else will take care of itself. GL.


Deim >> Catholics View(Largest denomination in the world by the way with 1billion out of the 2.4 christians being catholic)
www.catholic.com...


Listen here, Deim. If you cannot write a paragraph of commentary on the subject matter of these links, then do not waste our time by pasting them here. Everything Catholics believe can be thrown into the same bin with Darby and the Dispensationalists.


Deim >> And this may be off topic a bit.. but the end of days mentioned in the Bible make much more sense when you associate them around the time the bible was written rather then in this day and age.


No problem. None of your scoffer buddies can write two sentences on the Rapture topic either.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral


[edit on 25-9-2006 by Terral]



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