Did Osiris really die?

Originally posted by Byrd
I wish you'd go read what the Egyptians themselves said.

I agree.


Link: Kemetic Pagan FAQ

Originally posted by undo
Mayhaps what really happened was, the ancient egyptian priests assigned him a constellation, such as Orion, and the 14 pieces story is really just an astronomy-based one ....

Firstly, let me say that my view on the word "myth" means that peoples opinions have overidden the accepted version of history. i don't particularly like the word "myth", as it implies truth is absent, and in some peoples opinions it automatically discourages some "validity" from the specific "myth" being discussed.

Undo,

I was interested to see a correlation made between astronomy/constellations and the 14 pieces story. This struck something in my brain, i thought i would share:

We are all familiar with the 12 houses of the Zodiac. As were the Egyptians. Incidently, the 12 houses of the Zodiac are also the reason there are 12 hours on the clock, so i've heard.

at any rate .....

There used to be another house to the ancient's zodiac. It was the constellation of "Ophiuchus".

If Ophiuchus was one of the 13 houses taken out, and "Orion" or another constellation was modelled after Osiris, then that number would be 14.

just a thought i thought i would share.

Nice thread, and an interesting read.

thanks,
john

the 12 house Zodiac originates with the babylonians around 1000bce
the egyptians didn't actually come up with the idea themselves but were introduced to it by the greeks
the word Zodiac is greek and means "circle of little animals"
Ophiuchus is also greek noun

the Sumerians recognised 18 astrological signs as did some mesoamerican cultures which meant that they divided the astrological year into 18 months of 20 days each
the 12 hours of a clock are not derived from the zodiac as that system of measuring time was in place in egypt in 1500bce
quite simply they measured time by dividing the day into nightime and daytime
An Egyptian sundial for daylight use and an Egyptian water clock for nighttime use were found in the tomb of Pharaoh Amenhotep
The 24 hour clock we now use for measuring time was invented by the sumerians much much earlier

Originally posted by Marduk
the 12 house Zodiac originates with the babylonians around 1000bce
the egyptians didn't actually come up with the idea themselves but were introduced to it by the greeks

Quite true. They weren't that interested in the stars until fairly late (the ceilings that eveyone points out with pictures of the zodiac were made during the reign of the Ptolomies, about 300 BC or thereabouts.)

An Egyptian sundial for daylight use and an Egyptian water clock for nighttime use were found in the tomb of Pharaoh Amenhotep
The 24 hour clock we now use for measuring time was invented by the sumerians much much earlier

And they simply borrowed the nice technology.

From what I can remember of the myth:

Osiris' assassination was set up to take place at a dinner in his
honor, by (in the version I read) his brother Set, who then
tricked Osiris into a coffin specially to trap him inside.
Set and his accomplices then tossed the coffin into the Nile. Isis
realized, after a time, that her husband/brother was missing and
somehow got word of Sets' treachery, and when insearch of Osiris.
She found his coffin in the reeds, and pulled it ashore, and found that
he was near death. She used a healing spell on him that would put
him to sleep 'til he was sufficiently healed. and concealed him and
the coffin within a Sycamore tree.
Well, one day, Set was out for a walk, and came upon a curious
looking tree. Upon closer examination, he was stunned to find the
coffin with his brother sleeping inside. Looking around and seeing
noone, he smashed the coffin and hacked his brother to pieces.
Taking the pieces, he scattered them throughout the land, and
proceeded to make himself scarce.
Isis came back to check on Osiris, only to find the pieces of his coffin,
and she wept, not know hat had become of him or where to look.
She called their son, Horus the Younger, to her; and they made a plan
to get the information from the Prime Suspect, Set. So while Isis
prepared for the search, Horus when to Set, to seduce the
information out of him. To a point. Set told him what he had done.
Horus acted as if he was submitting himself to Set, then just before
penetration, quickly turned and castrated Set, penis and testicles, to
avenge his father. He then left Set there, and went to his mother
with the information that he had learned, and help her with the
search.
They went about the land and found 13 of the 14 pieces, and put him
together, sans penis and testicles. Which had been eaten by an
Oxyrhynchus fish, who refused to return them.
Without these vital pieces osiris could not be fully re surrected, for in
life he was a God of fertility and vegetation. But he could be
partially resurrected in the Duat as a Judge of the Dead.


And that, as far as I can remember, is one fo the versions of the Ennead (Heliopolitan) myth of the death of Osiris. It's been a few years.

I believe that they found the Tomb of Osiris and it was under water as it was down below the water table of the Giza Plateau. So the myth had a bit of truth behind it. The mummies, if my memory serves correct, were believed to be preserved and would be returned to life. If the body was placed under the water, it would have been as if you were drowning the actual person.

Oh I know the traditional story of O's death.

And as to his burial on the Giza plateau - that didn't happen. They didn't find his body or his burial site. Hawass thought he might've found it, but he didn't. That's because O was buried at Abydos. Seti I found the burial chamber when he was excavating for his own temple at Abydos. It's called the Osirieon.

[edit on 17-2-2007 by undo]

I don't know whether any one has mentioned this, and if they have shut me up now. Having done this myself I know it is true. People can drown and not die, so it is possible that Osiris drowned but didn't die.

just my two cents.

Originally posted by PotatoDaddy
I don't know whether any one has mentioned this, and if they have shut me up now. Having done this myself I know it is true. People can drown and not die, so it is possible that Osiris drowned but didn't die.

just my two cents.

Yeah, there are several possible variations of this because his story
doesn't stay the same. For example, here are a few variants:

Variant 1: He was encased in a coffin while still alive and Set tossed it in the Nile. It floated out to sea, and ended up on the shores of Byblos, where a tree grew up around it. The King of Byblos wanted the tree cut down and placed in his palace as one of the support columns. When Isis went looking for him, she found the tree pillar in the King's palace and made a deal to retrieve it. She rescued him from the tree pillar. Set found out about it, snatched the body away, cut it into 14 pieces and buried them in various places along the Nile riverbank. Isis then collected the pieces, and put them back together. The missing part was his phallus, which Set had thrown in the sea, where a oxyrhyncus (sp?) fish, swallowed it and went out to sea. Isis fashioned him an artificial phallus, and hovering over his body, enchanted magic words that allowed her to get impregnated by his corpse with the artifical phallus.

Variant2: He drowned. Isis and her entourage (including the already born Horus) rescued him, in time, and he went to join the Lords of Eternity

Variant3: He was cut into 14 pieces by Set, etc ( same as Variant1 14 pieces without the King of Byblos section).

posting to read above comment ^

Actually Sumerian Dumuzid came after the Ancient Egyptian OSIRIS.
That and other things are such an excepted, common mistake that one must ask, is it intentional?