Did Osiris really die?

Byrd,

No worries. Are the texts you refer to, the same ones put there by Seti I or his son? I was thinking that perhaps he was known as Osiris due to his Assyrian title, "Asar", but that it wasn't used when he was alive as much or as often (perhaps he had some titles he preferred more than others or someone else choose his burial name for him out of his available titles), and instead he was known as Narmer (while alive) in Egypt, Nimrod in Akkadia, Asar in Assyria, and etc. Then when he died, Asar was chosen for his burial name, and it correlated with Ausir in egyptian. I still haven't checked who the son of Shu (Shun?) was in China.

*Edit to fix my spelling mistakes and to clarify myself

[edit on 30-11-2006 by undo]

Nimrod in Akkadia

we've already gone over this several times
the Akkadian empire had been dust for over a thousand years before Nimrod is mentioned in one hebrew religious book
you love to pick and choose which facts you accept and which you ignore don't you
thats Pseudoscience for you
complete crap


and he was known as Ausir in Assyria was he
don't suppose you can prove that either seeing as its actually his egyptian name whereas Osiris is his greek one
doh

and you know that Narmer is a king and is not at all associated with Osiris by any stretch of the imagination

so when is this film coming out
or is it in the new series of SG1 ?


[edit on 30-11-2006 by Marduk]

Originally posted by undo
Byrd,

No worries. Are the texts you refer to, the same ones put there by Seti I or his son?

His grandson, from what I remember.

I was thinking that perhaps he was known as Osiris due to his Assyrian title, "Asar", but that it wasn't used when he was alive as much or as often (perhaps he had some titles he preferred more than others or someone else choose his burial name for him out of his available titles), and instead he was known as Narmer (while alive) in Egypt, Nimrod in Akkadia, Asar in Assyria, and etc. Then when he died, Asar was chosen for his burial name, and it correlated with Ausir in egyptian.

I don't think that's a match. He's far too recent to be Narmer. Narmer was 3100 BC or thereabouts:
en.wikipedia.org...


But he did have a boatload of titles and names!
www.touregypt.net...

I hadn't looked him up, but his status as a miltary leader and his ties with the miltary culture are very interesting. He was quite the builder as well. A very intriguing man.

I still haven't checked who the son of Shu (Shun?) was in China.
Ya got me on that one! No clue here.
*Edit to fix my spelling mistakes and to clarify myself

[edit on 30-11-2006 by undo]

He almost looks semitic, if that's a close approximation to his actual appearance. Especially, around the mouth and nose. Do you see it? Some pharaohs look more oriental, some look more african, but this fellow has a semitic look to him

Originally posted by undo
He almost looks semitic, if that's a close approximation to his actual appearance. Especially, around the mouth and nose. Do you see it? Some pharaohs look more oriental, some look more african, but this fellow has a semitic look to him

It's hard to say, really (I don't have an idea of what Semetic appearance is, for one thing.) Here's his mummy -- what do you think? :
lexicorient.com...

Originally posted by Byrd


It's hard to say, really (I don't have an idea of what Semetic appearance is, for one thing.) Here's his mummy -- what do you think? :
lexicorient.com...

Well if the painting is really him, that mummy belongs to someone else. lol If the painting is just an approximatin or idealization, then perhaps Seti I was fond of semitic people and emulated them in his artforms? I really don't know but the mummy's chin is entirely too long and its nose is too short, to be the same individual in the painting

[edit on 1-12-2006 by undo]

Remember that there was an Official Style that Egyptian art had. So...umm...think of it as if we had Court Painters and everyone loved manga. Think "George Bush as done by a manga artist."

I don't rely on the actual looks of the art to convey much more than a good political cartoon would.

Originally posted by Byrd
Remember that there was an Official Style that Egyptian art had. So...umm...think of it as if we had Court Painters and everyone loved manga. Think "George Bush as done by a manga artist."

I don't rely on the actual looks of the art to convey much more than a good political cartoon would.

I agree that the simplest answer is always the easiest way to handle the unknown, but unfortunately, that method can often leave alot to be desired. This approach to solving the gaps and anomalies of the past is only partially revealing and sometimes, doesn't add a smidgen of new information. It just assumes the simplest position. If we did that with all science, we would still be in the dark ages, scientifically.

So on the one hand, viewing the ancient egyptian art as akin to manga and popular themes is indeed a simple answer to the problems otherwise raised by the elongated, uncovered heads of the Amarna period, it doesn't really answer anything. It seems like a ready-made crutch for not having to deal with enigmas that would put the status quo into question and suggest themes the mainstream is not comfortable considering. Really, that's a very lazy approach to ancient history.

[edit on 4-12-2006 by undo]

I agree that the simplest answer is always the easiest way to handle the unknown, but unfortunately, that method can often leave alot to be desired.

it only leaves a lot to be desired when you don't understand it
the depiction of Therianthropes is logical and straight forward
your explanation that they are Aliens is both ludicrous and unsupported by any evidence whatsoever
why is it that you can't see that at all ?
because your personal belief outweighs any evidence to the contrary
how is it possible for an alien to turn up with the head of an earth animal
they have some talent for surgery didn't they ?
hehehe

Byrd,

I'll give you an example of what I mean. Let's say, for example, that we are trying to determine the identity of piece of pottery found buried half way between Egypt and Akkadia. Let's also assume for this example, that they border each other and no other artforms are available to study, other than egyptian and akkadian, because these two groups were in control of all the lands around them and between them and their artforms were pretty much consistent throughout with only minor differences (such as one city-state's god vs. another city-state's god). Several questions would arise as the identity of the pottery was ascertained:

1. Age
2. Material used
3. Style
4. Additional differences (handles, mouth, lid/no lid, god/goddess depicted, etc)
5. Location found
6. Placement in the geological layer
7. Amount of exchange between the 2 cultures of this particular thing (et.al, how much pottery of this type might naturally change hands between them)
8. Reason for the exchange of any given piece of pottery of this type (this seems to be the hardest thing to determine)
9. Any other artifacts found adjacent to it that might further help to determine the origin of the pottery.
10. Original or current contents of the pottery, if possible to determine

Now, let's compare this to the amount of research that goes into determining if the mummy in question is actually the pharaoh in question.

1. Placement

That's it. If the mummy is in the tomb said to be that of the pharaoh and is buried in his sarcophagus, typically, that's all the information gathered. Now, we both know that doesn't "have" to be the pharaoh, especially if the appearance of the mummy doesn't match the artworks depicting the pharaoh while alive. Yet this is only called into question if it doesn't shake up the current theories. This is, of course, the easiest way to approach the topic, but it isn't necessarily the best way. Obviously.




[edit on 4-12-2006 by undo]

so really what happened was that he was chopped up placed in a coffin then thrown in the nile right?

Heres some info, sorry for the wait..

The ancient Egyptian texts state that when the Pharaohs spiritually prepared themselves to enter the abode of the Immortals (the Egyptian 'Promised Land') they were fed divine 'Bread'. The sacred white substance called "Bread" was prepared in the 'House of Life' by the Egyptian high priests, and was considered the 'food of the gods'.

In the Egyptian texts, there is a deep connection between the divine 'Bread' and the all-seeing 'Eye of Horus' also known as the Udjat ("Whole One"). For example, the Pyramid texts specifically state that "Thy Bread-cakes shall come from the Eye-of-Horus." Another text states: "I am Thoth who brings you the bright Eye-of- Horus in its name of White Bread."

The Udjat
All-Seeing Eye of Horus

In general, the Udjat represented the divine healing power of the gods. It represented wholeness, health, and spiritual vision. Its function is clearly depicted in the ancient myth of Osiris, where Horus is said to have used the mysterious power of the Udjat to resurrect his father Osiris. After his resurrection, Osiris ascended through the sky to attain Eternal Life among the gods.

The idea that the Eye of Horus was related to a divine substance which could be ingested is also indicated in the ancient Coffin texts, which state: "If Nu be hungry, Nekhbet will be hungry; if Nu be thirsty, Nekhbet will be thirsty," (Spell 863). This litany ends by mentioning the Eye of Horus as the cure. "Your thirst and hunger are satisfied with the consumption of the Eye of Horus" (Spell 936). Later in the same text it is stated: "I live on Bread of white emmer washed down with Ale of red barley ... I testify concerning the Eye of Horus to him." (Spell 1013).

The spiritual power of the White Bread is clearly indicated in the Egyptian texts. The Book of the Dead states: "Let there be given to him Bread and Ale which have been issued in the Presence of Osiris, and he will be for ever like the Followers of Horus." The Followers of Horus were considered semi-divine sage-priests. Again, the texts state: "I eat Bread. I drink Ale.…That which is an abomination unto my Ka shall not enter my body. I will live upon that whereon live the gods and the Spirit-souls. I shall live, and I shall be master of their (Bread) cakes." "Now the subsistence of the Osiris Ani, whose word is truth, is among the Bread and the Ale which are made for your mouths … Behold, I shall be with Osiris, and my perfection shall be his perfection among the Great Gods."

It should be noted that the sacred or divine Bread used by the Egyptians was not shaped like an ordinary loaf of bread. It was shaped into a conical or pyramidal cake, resembling the capstone of the pyramids. There was thus a deep connection in the Egyptian mind between the Pyramids or "Houses of Eternity" and the White Bread. This is made explicit by the use of the hieroglyphic symbol of the White Bread to indicate the gift of Life, a gift that is also indicated by the Ankh.

So perhaps they could have been consuming the monatomic gold that is all the rage lately.. the superconductors (rhodium/iridium) that general electric are using and scientists are using all over the world to make large discoveries..

So it is perhaps possible that they did consume a monatomic substance.. and that he transfigured or something into a light being..

Source of Information

Theres lots of information regarding the stories out there.. I'm just taking this angle because it hasn't been adaquately covered.

The spiritual power of the White Bread is clearly indicated in the Egyptian texts. The Book of the Dead states: "Let there be given to him Bread and Ale which have been issued in the Presence of Osiris, and he will be for ever like the Followers of Horus." The Followers of Horus were considered semi-divine sage-priests. Again, the texts state: "I eat Bread. I drink Ale.…That which is an abomination unto my Ka shall not enter my body. I will live upon that whereon live the gods and the Spirit-souls. I shall live, and I shall be master of their (Bread) cakes." "Now the subsistence of the Osiris Ani, whose word is truth, is among the Bread and the Ale which are made for your mouths … Behold, I shall be with Osiris, and my perfection shall be his perfection among the Great Gods."

Pure Energy,

This is where the Catholic Communion originates.

Its older than that.. but I was making a point to Byrd ... because he/she was mean to me, ... lol so I went and found some information to back up my incoherent ramblings..

This is where the Catholic Communion originates

not according to the Bible and your saviour Jesus Christ it doesn't

Originally posted by Marduk

This is where the Catholic Communion originates

not according to the Bible and your saviour Jesus Christ it doesn't

You seem confused again. The Catholic Communion does not come from the Bible it comes from Egypt. What is in Egypt comes from Babylon.

Nimrod is Zoroaster...........Nimrod is Osiris.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
Its older than that.. but I was making a point to Byrd ... because he/she was mean to me, ... lol

so I went and found some information to back up my incoherent ramblings..

It is older than that........it comes from Babylon.

Sorry ... been out of pocket for a bit.

Originally posted by undo
That's it. If the mummy is in the tomb said to be that of the pharaoh and is buried in his sarcophagus, typically, that's all the information gathered. Now, we both know that doesn't "have" to be the pharaoh, especially if the appearance of the mummy doesn't match the artworks depicting the pharaoh while alive. Yet this is only called into question if it doesn't shake up the current theories.

Not true, actually. There's a lot of debate over some of the mummies.

But the debate isn't based on the appearance of the art, because artists aren't cameras. There was a court style, and they drew everybody in that particular style. In the sculptures, there's more attempt at 3D realism, but liberties are taken to make the ruler look more noble or impressive or handsome.

And it's very clear that this is stylized art. In the undisturbed mummies (like Tut) who are found with grave goods and painted panels and so forth, it's pretty clear that they don't really look exactly like those portraits.

I forget where we're going with this, but the Egyptians were not great painters of realism (as were, for example, the painters of the Renaissance.)

Originally posted by Drew522
so really what happened was that he was chopped up placed in a coffin then thrown in the nile right?

Other way around. He was tricked into the coffin, which was thrown into the Nile to drown him, and then he was chopped into pieces and they were scattered. His wife found them and re-created the body.

Originally posted by PuRe EnErGy
The ancient Egyptian texts state that when the Pharaohs spiritually prepared themselves to enter the abode of the Immortals (the Egyptian 'Promised Land') they were fed divine 'Bread'. The sacred white substance called "Bread" was prepared in the 'House of Life' by the Egyptian high priests, and was considered the 'food of the gods'.

I'm afraid you've been misled by scoundrels, who feel you are too naive to actually go read the Egyptian texts for yourself.

There's no such practice in ancient Egyptian burials. The dead were "fed" (by ritual chants and by offerings) after they died, but it wasn't just bread. It was ale/beer, meat, etc, etc. Bread was not sacred, nor was it considered the food of the gods.

The Book of the Dead talks about their practices:
www.sacred-texts.com...

In the Egyptian texts, there is a deep connection between the divine 'Bread' and the all-seeing 'Eye of Horus' also known as the Udjat ("Whole One"). For example, the Pyramid texts specifically state that "Thy Bread-cakes shall come from the Eye-of-Horus." Another text states: "I am Thoth who brings you the bright Eye-of- Horus in its name of White Bread."

They didn't have white bread. What they're translating as "white bread" is actually bread from the grain called emmer ... and yes, it's around today and is called by that name. Egyptians have been making it into bread for thousands of years and baking it in pots.

In general, the Udjat represented the divine healing power of the gods. It represented wholeness, health, and spiritual vision. .

Your source made that up. There are two Wadjats (not one)... the left one represents the moon and is associated with Thoth, because Thoth restored that eye. The right one represents the power of Horus... who wasn't associated with wholeness, etc, etc:
altreligion.about.com...

[quote"If Nu be hungry, Nekhbet will be hungry; if Nu be thirsty, Nekhbet will be thirsty," (Spell 863).
Let me encourage you to go READ what the Egyptians had to say, instead. You're being spoonfed fragments that are not properly translated and told a meaning for them that doen't hold up.

Again, the texts state: "I eat Bread. I drink Ale.…That which is an abomination unto my Ka shall not enter my body. I will live upon that whereon live the gods and the Spirit-souls. I shall live, and I shall be master of their (Bread) cakes."

...ugh.

Go, read the real texts, please!

They believed that if you gave offerings, the honored dead would be fed in the afterlife forever and ever. You're being spoon-fed mangled phrases that suit their interpretation.

Please, please, please go read the whole thing. And read about the real culture.

It should be noted that the sacred or divine Bread used by the Egyptians was not shaped like an ordinary loaf of bread. It was shaped into a conical or pyramidal cake, resembling the capstone of the pyramids.

I'm sorry... but your source there is just... ignorant. That's not correct. Yes, they were shaped like cones... which happened to be the shape of the bread pots. They looked like that long before there were any pyramids.

I wish you'd go read what the Egyptians themselves said.