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Were Germany and France aware of Saddam's capabilities?

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posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:47 AM
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I often read on the forum the [mainly US] discontent with the political position of the French and German governments. But why did they decide not to support the war? There must have been a very good reason to decide so, after all France did participate in the first Gulf War.

As we've seen the Bush Administration extensively lobbied around the world for generating support and contribution to the war in Iraq. Pakistan did get two options:


Pakistani intelligence sources told Asia Times Online that on the afternoon of September 11 itself, as well as on September 12 and 13, Armitage met with Mahmoud with a stark choice: either Pakistan would help the US against al-Qaeda, or it would be bombed back to the Stone Age. Secretary of State Colin Powell presented an ultimatum in the form of seven US demands.

Source


I am aware of the fact that European countries had also been suppressed/forced to join the coalition of the willing, since economic sanctions would be applied if they would not support it.

France and Germany, from a military and political perspective, the most powerful countries of Europe that did decide not to join the coalition of the willing did probably resisted the pressure brought on them by the US.

Though, it sounds strange those countries did not want to contribute, after all we were told Saddam did form a threat to all of us.

I can only imagine one reason why they did not want to join the coalition: they were aware of the fact that Saddam did not form a threat at all. Both countries have a powerful intelligence network and they probably did have agents in Iraq prior to the 2nd occupation.

Claiming that French are cowards is ignorant, after all they do have troops in Afghanistan and Africa. If they really felt action was required against Iraq they wouldn't have hesitated to send the Foreign Legion.

(For the records, I am not French nor am I German)

Edit: Source

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Mdv2]




posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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Pakistan was given an ultimatum because the US knew that Pakistan was deeply involved in global terrorism as such.
But 'bombing' Pakistan back to the stone age is another thing altogether.
Its not joke to threaten a nuclear weapons state!
What if Pakistan hadn't complied?
I'm sure the US wouldn't/couldn't bomb Pakistan back to the stone age..
very interesting..



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 04:46 AM
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I'm not sure that it would be fair to say that the French and Germans were "aware" of Saddam's capabilities any more that the US and UK were but they probably were rather more cautious in their interpretation of the information they had for various reasons.

France has long standing economic ties with the region and, whilst you are certainly right to say they are not cowards, they are traditionally not politically as hawkish with regard to preemptive military action as the US and UK. The French do tend to see themselves as some kind of middle ground voice between the traditional West/East stand off in the UNSC as well.

Germany has understandable and long standing issues with using military force to resolve disputes, indeed, it is only very recently that the country's constitution was changed to allow the use of their forces outside Germany at all.

As for bombing Pakistan back to the stone age - I imagine that quite a few undiplomatic things were said around various tables at that time. How many of them would ever have been followed through is an interesting question.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 08:50 AM
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I am aware of the fact that European countries had also been suppressed/forced to join the coalition of the willing, since economic sanctions would be applied if they would not support it.


Care to provide sources for such a statement?

Pre-war intelligence was given to the US by France and Germany and Russia and Britian.

They all stated the same, Saddam had large stockpiles of WMD's.

The world intelligence community failed not just the US.

France was heavily involved with the oil-for-food program (taking kickbacks) and other business which was in voilation of the rules set by the UN security council.

This has all been covered on ATS previously.....all you have to do is search for it.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:11 AM
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Germany didn't took part because the gov. was Socialists/Green party...I think they did know that the USA over react. So they didn't want to take part on this second gulf war. Although the former chancellor "Schröder" assured Bush the "absolute solidarity"...


But now the conservative party (CDU with Angela Merkel as chancellor -->Actually it is a coalition between socialists and conservative party, but Merkel as chancellorr is in charge) are the governing party. And they did really send german troops (Naval Forces) to the Libanese coast (Yesterday the 21. August 2006), which is just stupid and testified the improvidence of our current german goverment.

Edit: spelling & addition


[edit on 22-9-2006 by dacruz]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:37 AM
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America at the end of the day only had one thing on its mind,"Oil & hard cash$",their was a threat form Saddam to neighbouring countries like Iran,Kurds, Saudis & of course Israel the "Homeland". America (The Government and top money men) saw 9/11 as a way to scare the world,make lots of money, hey they got alot more money from the towers coming down than they ever would whilst they were still standing so dont give us the economy crashed! thats like comparing it too the 1930s.
Germany & France like lots of you have said didnt see any "real" threat to them from Saddams regime and werent prepared to go fight other peoples wars when they would rather make sure their own countries are in a good state.
The way Iraq was portrayed before the invasion was really quite unbelievable they tried to claim that it was a threat to the US and the "whole world"
right so thats why the Chinese & Russians didnt move a quarter and the other countries in the region like Iran & Saudi Arabia didnt budge by lifting a finger to help in any of it. really who are they kidding

I am going to go get some facts to back this up.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:58 AM
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The answer is quite simple, there smarter than us and they were not cowered by Bush and his cronies. If you know a country/goverment is not a threat to you then why invade it. Its a bit like this Chavez issue it dose not matter what he says he is no threat to the united states on his own.



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