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the problem of hell

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posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 08:46 PM

Originally posted by UnrealZA
Nothing stated here, although long, makes any sense. It is contradictory, time and time again I have stated why this type of world view is.

No, you haven't shown anything but blind-faith and fanaticism.

I've been posting here to teach what I've learned, and I learn from those who are willing to share.

If you're just here to tell everybody that they can either believe, or go to hell; then why waste your time?

If God calls those who are chosen, then why don't you let Him do the work?

To state that we are in the realm of relativity is then an absolute.

You're just evading the issues at hand.

That means that any time you affirm anything, whatever it may be, that your giving said assertion an Infinite status.

Don't you affirm things all the time?

When I state that something is consistent with the Universal Laws that dictate how apparently separate entities interact with each other, I'm not saying that any-thing is Absolute(other than God, who is not a "thing").


You and I, the chairs we're sitting in, and everything else around us, have no separate existence; they are all interdependant(this is the principle Karma is based upon).

God is the Great Cause of and is within the apparent separation of the Universe and the Laws that dictate how the entities within it interact; but God is also beyond them.

I will ask you, "Are you absolutely sure we are in the realm of relativity?" You will then proceed to reply with more mystic babble.

"Relative" is only a term of convention to describe how apparently separate entities interact with one another.

But if we investigate closely, we'll see that there is no Absolute separateness between anything.

"I" am merely a result of a chain of causes and effects.

But the fact is, is that "I" have no intrinsic self-existence because I'm dependant on everything else.

"Relativity" is simply a term to describe how the various parts(people, animals, objects, rocks, thoughts, sounds, etc.) of a single Whole(the Universe) interact with one another.

I don't see how you're having such a hard time with this.

As an analogy, we could say that the the whole of a thing is greater than the sum of its parts.

So God is within All, but is also Greater than the sum of the All that She/He is within.

So I'm saying that any action/reaction is relative, in that the "two" apparently separate entities involved in the process of action/reaction, only have an apparent self-status.

But they are not separate, and are dependant on another and everything else.

But in the end, there is no such thing as an independant-self, as all is interdependant.

Only God is the Unique One.

Everything else is just ashes in the wind.

But these "ashes", or everything in existence, do serve the purpose of God gaining experience through them.

So when we harm other Senteint Beings, we harm ourselves.

This is why God put the Law of Karma into place, so that nobody can get away with sinning without having to pay for it.

No one can live a relativist lifestyle/worldview (or a moral relativistic lifestyle) for one minute.

Is this an Absolute?

What do you mean that they can't?

Many people do obviously.

Or are you saying that they are not Truly Living?

Perhaps they are not Truly Living; but one who sees relativity(not necessarily a "moral relativist") as a term of convention can certainly have Conscious Faith, so long as they don't give relative events an Absolute independant status.

base your worldview on relativism then it fails, it crumbles.

I'm not impressed with such left-brain hemisphere based classifications of things.

What exactly is "relativism", and how can you put my worldview into such a box?

Only God Within can Comprehend the precise status of sin and morality.

Religious fanatics and materialisitc "moral relativists" alike are both of extreme views.

When you try to superficially say exactly what sin and morality are or aren't, with only the mind or with blind-faith, error is an inevitable result.

[edit on 25-9-2006 by Tamahu]

posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 06:00 PM
To elaborate...

It is the Sensual and Intermediate Minds that have a hard time reconciling the self evident fact of Karma(cause and effect) based on the fact of interdependance/dependant-origination, with the Divine teachings of Grace, Forgiveness and Penitance of Master Christ Yeshua.

Foundations Of Gnostic Teachings, What every Gnostic should have knowledge about...

...Fortunately my dear friends, justice and mercy are the two principal columns of the Universal White Fraternity.

Justice without mercy is tyranny; mercy without justice is tolerance, complacency with the transgression. In this world of misfortune in which we find ourselves, it is necessary to learn to handle our own business affairs, to guide the ship of our existence through the diverse ports of life.

Karma is negotiable and this is something that can greatly surprise the followers of diverse orthodox schools.

Certainly, some pseudo-esotericists and pseudo-occultists have become too pessimistic regarding the law of action and consequence; they mistakenly suppose that the latter unfolds in a mechanical, automatic and cruel manner.

Scholars believe that it is not possible to alter such a law; sincerely, I have to dissent with them, because I am very dissatisfied with their way of thinking.

If the law of action and consequence, if the nemesis of existence were not negotiable, then where would divine mercy be? Frankly, I cannot accept cruelty in the divinity. The reality, that which is all perfection, that which has diverse names, such as Tao, Aum, Inri, Sein, Allah, Brahma, God, or better said Gods, etc., can, in no way, be something without mercy, something cruel, tyrannical, etc. Because of all of this I repeat in an emphatic manner that karma is negotiable.

When an inferior law(Karma) is transcended by a superior law(Christ), the superior law(Christ) washes away the inferior law(Karma).

Do good deeds to pay your debts. The lion of the law is combated with the scale.

Whosoever has capital in order to pay, pays, and does well in his business affairs; but whosoever does not have wit capital in order to pay, has to pays with pain...

The only non-negotiable Karma is that of sin against the Holy Spirit, which is fornication(spilling of the semen); and this is called Karmasaya and Kamaduro, both of which must be payed through pain and suffering.

For more on this, see the following:

Grace And The Burden Of Salvation

The soteriological belief of many Christians that heaven is won purely by the grace of God, and that we cannot do anything to influence the outcome has, if you integrally study the Bible, nothing to do with Christianity.

Heaven is won by the grace of God because if there was not mercy and grace for us, we would already be in hell...

...When we point out the previous passage of the Bible, every Christian believes (that) they (are) “the few.” It is just a painful ruse though, to play upon one's self. The idea that everyone goes to Heaven without paying what they owe is pure fabrication!


posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 11:40 PM

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
don't know what it is?

well, i didn't come across this theological conundrum until a few months ago (well, at least the name for it)

in the christian tradition, hell is a place of INFINITE punishment

man can only commit finite sins (with some wacky exceptions that i spent a good 3 hours discussing with some friends)

so why does hell give such disproportionate punishment?

good question.

since the people their are sent there for judging god's creation, then perhaps god in god's infinite wisdom sent them to hell with only one buried deep genetic command growing outwards exponentially until they exert their "free will" and choose to see the truth.

if they don't see the truth, then what would they see?

"Of eye you choose"


and in Ophiuchus's house, there is nothing but mirrors.. ..

if i had enough empathy and love for an automobile to know how it would think, and what it would feel guilty for .... ..

air polution, probably.

and if i were an automobile i would say something simple, like a child, that expressed the idea of "blowing fumes out my backside/tailpipe"

so i would probably say: "see i fart"

but, i would make "see" even smaller, because i am just a stupid automobile with no brains anyways, right?

"see" = "c"

"c i fart"

and then, since i am not in heaven, and everything is opposite in hell than it is in heaven, i would take the mirror that Ophiuchus has from him and look at what the car says in the mirror .. . .

"c i fart" [mirror] "traf i c"

ah, ..... "c i fart" turns into "trafic"

posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 01:56 AM
It is the fuel of heaven.
Need x amount of gas to burn to keep a very cozy interior. If it could work out of duality there would be no need for hell.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
don't know what it is?

well, i didn't come across this theological conundrum until a few months ago (well, at least the name for it)

in the christian tradition, hell is a place of INFINITE punishment

man can only commit finite sins (with some wacky exceptions that i spent a good 3 hours discussing with some friends)

so why does hell give such disproportionate punishment?

posted on Apr, 23 2008 @ 08:46 AM
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

as some of you might have noticed, i'm bumping old threads of mine that i find particularly interesting and/or relevant to current discussions

this one i just find interesting.

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