Would America ban personal firearms

Originally posted by sacrifice
Then, I remembered this statement about liberals (anti-gun folks) that I heard years ago that I think applies to the mostly liberal anti-gun logic perfectly:

"Liberals consider that a woman raped and strangled with her panties is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet."

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, and is a prime example of how the republican party has hijacked the English language and made Americans far more ignorant than they were before.

For the love of god and country, read a f---ing book, or at least check Wikipedia before making such an asinine statement.

from Wikipedia

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.

No where in the entire article does it mention gun control.

I myself am neither republican nor democrat, liberal nor conservative. I'm a moderate, and I take great offense at the stupor that the opposing sides have for each other. There's too many REAL problems out there that need to be addressed to go around just making stuff up about a party you disagree with.


[edit on 11/7/2006 by thelibra]

Originally posted by thelibra
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from Wikipedia

Broadly speaking, liberalism emphasizes individual rights. It seeks a society characterized by freedom of thought for individuals, limitations on power, especially of government and religion, the rule of law, free public education, the free exchange of ideas, a market economy that supports relatively free private enterprise, and a transparent system of government in which the rights of all citizens are protected. In modern society, liberals favor a liberal democracy with open and fair elections, where all citizens have equal rights by law and an equal opportunity to succeed.

No where in the entire article does it mention gun control.

And nowhere in that wikipedia quote did I see anything that describes a liberal. For example, most liberals support 'political correctness' - which is the polar opposite of "freedom of thought for individuals" and the "free exchange of ideas". And liberals support a "transparent system of government"? No, liberals want government involved in and running everything.

This is an example of why I believe people put way too much faith in wikipedia as a source for information. It's more like a blog than an encyclopedia - which its name claims to emulate.

Originally posted by centurion1211
For example, most liberals support 'political correctness' - which is the polar opposite of "freedom of thought for individuals" and the "free exchange of ideas". And liberals support a "transparent system of government"?

No, liberals want government involved in and running everything.

Just as Sacrifice did, you are defining liberals according to conservative propaganda. Why don't you ask a black person what it means to be a white person? How about asking a Jew what it's like to be a Muslim? How about you ask a Republican what it's like to be a Democrat? Because what you are both doing right now is effectively regurgitating what you have been told by your own party what the view is of an opposing party.

You (wrongly) assume liberals demand political correctness. Maybe in the late 20th century, but I can tell you that both parties are sick and tired of it by now. And even if they did, how is this any different than enforcing censorship and one's own sense of morality upon other people, which is what conservatives are currently and actively known for? How does restricting what people can say or do in media and communication lead towards a freer exchange of ideas than demanding someone stop calling someone else an offending epithet?

You also assume (again, wrongly) that liberals want government to be active in everything. Do you mean as opposed to the conservative party that has enacted more security legislation, more human rights violations, and spent more tax dollars overseas than any administration in the last 50 years? Or did you mean more literally, in that the present conservative administration has the record fewest number of days in active sessions?

Liberals don't want government in everything any more than conservatives want government out of everything, and to claim otherwise not only smacks of ignorance, but blatantly ignores the shortcomings of the conservative bent as well.

Even more to the bloody point though, what has this derailing got to do with whether or not we would give up our guns? Or was it your intention to just turn this into a liberal bashing thread?

Personally if any person came to my home, and demanded my firearms, they would get a .40S&W to the forehead. I felt my basic American rights were violated.

Originally posted by Ford Farmer
Personally if any person came to my home, and demanded my firearms, they would get a .40S&W to the forehead. I felt my basic American rights were violated.

Ummm...

Would you consider politely declining before shooting them? Or would that lose the element of surprise?

Just curious. Since it might happen in the near future if certain powers continue to go unchecked.

Uh, libra, you were the one posting the wikipedia article on liberalism ...

And it's so convenient to say liberals were only into being PC in the last century. Earth to libra, that was only about 6 years ago, and it's almost infuriating to see you write that most liberals no longer believe in PC. They have saddled us with this PC crap, that we will have to live with for who knows how long! Just saying "Oops, our bad", is not going to be good enough.

Regarding guns, isn't it liberal senators like Schumer and Feinstein ("Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em in") that want to ban gun ownership? Do we ever hear that kind of thing from a conservative lawmaker? See why people interested in this issue are concerned about liberals getting back in power?



[edit on 11/7/2006 by centurion1211]

yeah. I would most likely tell him to stick it, then slam my door. if he rang again.........

[edit on 7-11-2006 by Ford Farmer]

Now, I have to admit that some liberals, such as Howard Dean, are pro gun. However, the majority of anti-gun people are democrats, but not all demo's are anti-gun.

As for using wikipedia as a reference - LOL - too funny. I will try to use wikipedia for my doctoral research references to see what happend - LOL - just too funny. Read a book - LOL. Geez - LOL.

The original question was "would America ban personal firearms" - Someday it will happen, as it is happening in LIBERAL California. However, in many states there would be violence, and the military (National Guard/Reserves) will need to be used to go door to door, and take the weapons from their neighbors. They will not get my weapons or those of the majority of my acquaintances, period.

For those of you who would just hand them in, or are asking others to reconsider and hand theirs in, when they come to take you away to the holding centers, I suppose you will just bleet all the way to the cattle tuck. Or, will you do something else. And if so, how is that different from a person refusing to give up their guns?

Originally posted by jaguarmike

You do know he's saying it happened quickly right? Move them overseas or give them up? That's hardly a choice. I remember when I was shooting an MP5 at the gun range these two brits were all happy shooting their pistols and their jaws dropped when I started bursting and then auto fired- it really hit me how depraved you are. Haven't shot a machinegun? That's like saying you haven't eaten chocolate

Riddle me this: how much has crime gone up since you lost your ability to have firearms? Don't you have a Jamaican Yardy problem? Is the East End still bad? Don't your police carry MP5's and have a security camera on every street corner... MULTIPLE security camera's on every street corner? Your country is a police state resembling that of 1984, pure and simple. Let me be completely jerkish here and say, "If not for you, what about your children?"

Yes I do know it happened quickly, I also know loads about UK gun laws, guns are a hobby of mine. 'Abroad' actually is a choice - return flights to Czech are c. £40 and ammo / accomodation are cheap.

We can't have full auto in private hands but you can fire full auto if you know where to go / who to ask. I've fired many, many rounds through a GMPG so I've had my chocolate thanks.

I said I don't agree with the ban - read my post - plus we haven't 'lost our ability to have firearms' - again read my post / do some research before you spout falsehoods - the vast majority of our police are unarmed and there certainly aren't 'multiple cctv cameras on every corner' As an expert you'll also know that recently a few shooters have successfully applied for handguns for the humane despatch of deer.

You did describe yourself as 'jerkish': I point out an over-simplification by a previous poster, you then post inaccuracies and turn this thread into a UK = 1984 / US = land of the free one.

In many states the US applies very similar restrictions on ownership to UK criteria (handguns apart).

And nowhere in that wikipedia quote did I see anything that describes a liberal. For example, most liberals support 'political correctness' - which is the polar opposite of "freedom of thought for individuals" and the "free exchange of ideas". And liberals support a "transparent system of government"?

You're mistaking rightwing "talking points" for reality.

I've never actually heard any liberals supporting "political correctness" - just rightwing pundits claiming they do.

And gun control is not exclusively a "liberal" issue - I seem to recall a certain George Bush supporting the so called "Assault Weapons Ban" and promising to sign it...

And the poster who pointed out that DNC chairman Howard Dean is a Second Amendment supporter is correct - I believe in 2004 Howard Dean was the highest-rated Presidential candidate by the NRA.

[edit on 11/7/06 by xmotex]

Misrepresentations of European firearms laws are pretty common here in the US.

While they're in some ways often more restrictive (the handgun ban in the UK for instance), in others they are actually less so. In some of the Scandanavian countries for example, it's far easier to get cleared to own full auto military rifles than it is to get a Class III license in the US.

All Swiss males under 30, as members of the militia, are legally required to keep a Sig 550 5.56mm assault rifle in their homes, unless they're officers or medical personnel, in which case it's a 9mm pistol.

[edit on 11/8/06 by xmotex]

Originally posted by Strangerous

Originally posted by jaguarmike

You do know he's saying it happened quickly right? Move them overseas or give them up? That's hardly a choice. I remember when I was shooting an MP5 at the gun range these two brits were all happy shooting their pistols and their jaws dropped when I started bursting and then auto fired- it really hit me how depraved you are. Haven't shot a machinegun? That's like saying you haven't eaten chocolate

Riddle me this: how much has crime gone up since you lost your ability to have firearms? Don't you have a Jamaican Yardy problem? Is the East End still bad? Don't your police carry MP5's and have a security camera on every street corner... MULTIPLE security camera's on every street corner? Your country is a police state resembling that of 1984, pure and simple. Let me be completely jerkish here and say, "If not for you, what about your children?"

Yes I do know it happened quickly, I also know loads about UK gun laws, guns are a hobby of mine. 'Abroad' actually is a choice - return flights to Czech are c. £40 and ammo / accomodation are cheap.

We can't have full auto in private hands but you can fire full auto if you know where to go / who to ask. I've fired many, many rounds through a GMPG so I've had my chocolate thanks.

I said I don't agree with the ban - read my post - plus we haven't 'lost our ability to have firearms' - again read my post / do some research before you spout falsehoods - the vast majority of our police are unarmed and there certainly aren't 'multiple cctv cameras on every corner'

As an expert you'll also know that recently a few shooters have successfully applied for handguns for the humane despatch of deer.

You did describe yourself as 'jerkish': I point out an over-simplification by a previous poster, you then post inaccuracies and turn this thread into a UK = 1984 / US = land of the free one.

In many states the US applies very similar restrictions on ownership to UK criteria (handguns apart).

Well I apologize for straying off topic then and not having the full pic on your country, and our country is almost as messedup. Are you serious it costs 40 pounds to fly to eastern europe from the UK???? Wow. What are the gun laws in Czech.? Anything goes?

No worries - as Xmotex says it's a common mis-conception about UK gun laws (and it does get my goat - as you may have noticed )

Czech has become the shooters' favourite getaway weekend: c. £40 return if you go budget / book ahead, cheap beer / hotels, ranges and ammo are cheap, and there's good hunting including wild boar! Not sure about full-auto but I think it's OK. Plus there's the 'friendly ladies' / weekend away from the missus dimension too! What more could you want?!