Would America ban personal firearms

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
why not remove guns all together to STOP armed robbery, instead of arming more people to the teeth

Your evasions are weak. You actually wished his kids death to prove a point.

And since when do only people with guns count as armed? THREE TIMES MORE PEOPLE commit armed robbery with a knife in your country! Or are they not armed enough for your tastes?

As for people being armed, I suggest you read up on the Tyler Texas shooting.

en.wikipedia.org...

Mark Allen Wilson (January 20, 1953 – February 24, 2005) was a Tyler, Texas man killed during a shooting outside the Smith County Courthouse in Tyler, Texas. He entered an ongoing gun battle between David Hernandez Arroyo Sr., who had attempted earlier to kill his wife and son, and law enforcement officers. Wilson was killed at close quarters by Arroyo after firing and hitting Arroyo several times. Wilson had no affiliations, professional or otherwise, with law enforcement, and acted solely as a private citizen during the shootout. Arroyo was later killed by gunfire from police officers.

The heroic actions of Mr. Wilson saved the life of many. In fact Mark Wilson has been widely credited with saving the lives, at the cost of his own, of law enforcement officers and citizens at the courthouse and surrounding area by injuring Arroyo and causing him to disengage from his attack and flee the area without murdering his son.

DE

why not remove guns all together to STOP armed robbery, instead of arming more people to the teeth

Well that would be great if it were possible. However it is IMPOSSIBLE... Even for the island Australia. Its even harder for a nation such as the US with huge borders for black market runing. Just as it is impossible to take away all drugs or alcohol it is also impossible to take away all guns. What happends when strict gun control laws are made the only ones that follow them are law abiding citizens leaving only criminals with guns.

After all of that you have the citizen government check/balance issue.

[edit on 21-9-2006 by Heckman]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
and again I never said I HOPE IT HAPPENS. I HATE THAT BS.
I hope no one dies.

But eveantually if u stock guns in the house an accident will happen.
and when your in hospital grieving, as sorry as I am.. i will still say the only positive to emerge is that guns will be though of VERY DIFFERENTLY in many circles as a result.



[edit on 21-9-2006 by Agit8dChop]

Yes, sadly, accidents occur occasionally ... but there is always an element of negligence on part of the gun owner. Unless your single, if you own a gun it needs to be secured with a gunlock. The fact that there are negligent owners out there does not make it a danger to introduce a gun into my house. My child knows not to play with the lawnmower, gas grill, oven, etc (they're not toys) ... if I brought a gun into the house they would know not to play with the gun in addition to have it secured at all times.

What's more negligent in my mind are the pools, in homes with small children, without pool covers or gates. Alot of times within a few steps of a back door. When we moved recently we looke at a # of homes that had pools (we didn't want one since we have a child) and not one of them had a pool cover or gates. Since the #2 cause of death for children nationwide is drowning and 85% do so at home or a friends ... I would hedge a bet that pool is much worse.

The point is anything is potentionally lethal in the absence of precautions. Yes, guns were made to kill but that doesn't mean if you have one it's a matter of time until there is an accident. If you keep your gun loaded and under your mattress (unless your single) your just plain stupid.

Remember, guns don't kill people ... bullets fired at a high velocity kill people.

I would like to recommend something for you too read so that you might better understand where we are coming from here in america.

It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.

www.constitution.org...
Special Mention to the last line "of auxiliary precautions."

The federalist paper #51 might give you and anyone else a better insight into the american way of thinking especially on government, and the great check and balance we call the 2nd amendment.

I might as well ignore ya deus..
I never said I wished. I never said I hoped.
Do I need to spell it out word for word before you can understand words and not CHANGE THEM when replying?

Jesus.. really man, start focusing a bit more.

Im not saying, guns are the root of all evil.
Im not saying the whole world should be gun free.
And well done to your basic observation that many thing inside the house can kill people.

But as has happened lately,
in terms of school shootings, work shootings, people whom have registered guns can just as easily FLIIP OUT, lose there temper and go on suicidal rampages where ever they choose.

If guns were tighened, they would be limited to a knife, a pat, or finding some black market hand gun.

And your story depicts nothing but innocent people dying, by people whom have guns... i dont see how your stating a case that guns being on the streets is good.
wouldnt limiting gun use of prevented this from the begining ?

Heckman thats a good point,
But dont people live iwth that fact every dya of there life?
Not every citizen is a armed crook,
and police and other agencies tend ot have a good grasp on controlly majority of issues.

but becuase theres a chance a maniac round the corner has a gun in his pants, doesnt mean you should be armed too.
when u walk past, he's not going to just shoot you.
but when you present a gun, your both shooting for your life.


America will never be in a stae where citizens need to take up arms and destory the govenrment.

Its a fantasy epicted as an excuse.

They did here in Australia !!

I dont know if you guys are fimiluar with the A Port Arthur Massacre but that was they way to disarm Australians.

Heckman thats a good point,
But dont people live iwth that fact every dya of there life?
Not every citizen is a armed crook,
and police and other agencies tend ot have a good grasp on controlly majority of issues.

but because theres a chance a maniac round the corner has a gun in his pants, doesn't mean you should be armed too.
when u walk past, he's not going to just shoot you.
but when you present a gun, your both shooting for your life.

Well just to clarify in this situation the person walking by the maniac would be required by law (in my state) to be at least 21 years old , have no criminal record , to have a safety and tactical training coarse and working knowledge of the laws that are in place (and yes I do believe that safety / training laws are very important ) in order to acquire the license to carry the handgun.

Now back to the scenario... Your right the maniac might not just pull his firearm and start blasting however if he knows that this person is not armed with an equally powerful weapon he will use his firearm to rob / rape / kidnap... If he knows that this person and some of the other law abiding citizens around them are armed he will choose not to use his firearm to rob / rape / kidnap because its very likely he will get shot.

One more interesting thing is that most police officers in the United States firmly believe in the right for law abiding citizens to carry firearms.

America will never be in a stae where citizens need to take up arms and destory the govenrment.

Lets hope your right!!

I believe that so long as the right to bear arms remains intact in its intended form then it will never happen.


[edit on 21-9-2006 by Heckman]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
If guns were tighened, they would be limited to a knife, a pat, or finding some black market hand gun.

See, that's the problem: the criminals already go out and get black market handguns. that's why they're criminals, they don't obey the law. that's the concept. A man has just as much chance of flipping out as the next guy, just like he can get a gun from his house or the black market. Banning guns doesn't solve that issue, does it? Guns will always be around.

And your story depicts nothing but innocent people dying, by people whom have guns... i dont see how your stating a case that guns being on the streets is good.
wouldnt limiting gun use of prevented this from the begining ?

You didn't read the story, did you? The man had an illegally purchased, i]illegally modified weapon that he obtained it, guess what, an i]illegal manner! Damn, he was up on domestic abuse charges, and he still managed to get a firearm. How's about that?

Then, a man with a LEGAL firearm took it unto himself to help those who came under attack by the man with the i]illegal firearm. He died saving the lives of court clerks, police, and the man's son and forcing him to retreat. But, of course, all you're seeing is GUUUUUUUUUUUUNS, not their use, nor the line between legal and illegal use.

but becuase theres a chance a maniac round the corner has a gun in his pants, doesnt mean you should be armed too.
when u walk past, he's not going to just shoot you.
but when you present a gun, your both shooting for your life.

I am sure that maniacs and common criminals everywhere will agree with you. He's not just goign to shoot you, he's going to take your wallet or rape you first. Some consolation. Well, you were close. And yes, you are generally shooting for you life. There is absolutely no guarantee this madman or criminal will simply leave you unmolested.

America will never be in a stae where citizens need to take up arms and destory the govenrment.

Its a fantasy epicted as an excuse.

So, you're a seer now, too? You can predict the future, all of it, ever, unerringly? Your opinion is that like armed criminal attack on citizens, it is too slim of a possibility for you to consider. THAT is a fantasy.

DE

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
First, fair enough you dont drink enough to be in that state.
But im sure there ARE gun owners out there whom doo.
Just last night i woke up after a nightmare... and swear i had someone standing over me.
Had I had a gun under the bed... in a safe place .. i would of surely pulled it out... and atleast aimed it... simply because at that moment, when the adrenalin kicked in felt i was in danger.


Without equal, I woudl ask you refrain from calling me a 'pr1ck and a w@nker ' breach of t'cs there mate..
And it shows class when you abuse someone in that means, when they from the begining have been civil in a mature and just debate.

First of all, about this breach of tcs, I don't care. Normally I would, but you crossed a personal line with me. If you can't see that then you need to grow up and grow up quick. Had you in person questioned my responsibility in regards to my family, you'd be holding your nose and looking for an ice bag. That HAD nothing to do with the discussion. So before your cowardly little butt goes and stitches, go back reread your replies to me, and tell me that it wasn't abuse, and didn't violate certain rules.

You went personal with me first, so of course you left me no choice but to respond. You have no right to talk about class, considering you lack any shred of it, and it shows in your posts. Learn to treat people with RESPECT before you ever talk about maturity. You didn't want a debate, you wanted to throw bombs, and one bounced back. Go have a cup of tea and cry about it.

As far as YOU grabbing a gun in the middle of the night blah, blah, blah. Good for you. So you'd freak out and go rambo in your own house. That's probably why on the FORMS that we have to LEAGALLY fill out to purchase a firearm asks if you have mental conditions. You are legally bound by that, and trust me, you violate even one gun law here, the ATF is all over you. If I were as jumpy as you, I wouldn't have a gun around, or one without a trigger lock to ensure you POSITIVELY IDENTIFY YOUR TARGET before you go rambo. If you don't have self discipline then you shouldn't even be living on your own, much less owning a weapon. If you don't know the difference between a nightmare and reality, then something else is wrong here.

As I said earlier, we dumbass Americans learned pretty quickly that the second you give up your arms, you're enslaved. People often hear about Washington's army, and how it fought it's battles, ect. But the minutemen, the one that broke the enemies will, you know you guys, were the ones that psychologically defeated the enemy, you know YOU GUYS. Civilians were shooting your officers basically breaking the backbone of your military.

Then comes the War of 1812, when once again, our freedom was challenged by the evil Imperialist, war criminals, you know YOU GUYS. Down in a little place called New Orleans, in a time when folks could wipe their own butts so to speak, you guys showed up and tried to ruin the day. A pretty smart guy by the name of Col. Andrew Jackson used civilian townspeople to join his lines to defend against the British. Cause y'all were planning on burning down the town after it's capture. In todays reference materials on the net, the civilian involvement is played down for obvious political reasons. The govt just doesn't like letting schools teach the truth about how large of a positive effect a armed civilian population had during the course of our history. A lot of people including myself feel that the civilian involvement in the defense of New Orleans turned the tide in the battle.

There are a million reasons and more for society to be armed, and not very many for it to be disarmed. For one, as many others have said here, to resist and defend against tyranny. Where I was born, we weren't allowed to have guns, only the elite, and the military which in turn led to widespread corruption, and evil. The people were totally powerless, since we couldn't defend ourselves against tyranny. I never ever want to live anywhere like that again, and even though I served in the military, and respect those who I served with, I would not in any way shape or form allow them to disarm, round up, take into custody, or take control of my town. I also would not in any way shape or form want armed military vehicles to patrol my streets. And would use every one of my skills to resist, and defeat the illegal actions of the govt. And yes that means grabbing a rifle, and wreaking havoc, and I sure as hell wouldn't be alone. The armed civilian population greatly outnumbers the military and law enforcement agencies. That's a true democracy, that's real checks and balances. Someone trying to illegally occupy your area, that searches your house, pats down your wife without any due cause, someone trying to illegally imprison you, and or control you should be resisted at every step no matter if they're your own countrymen or someone else's. Evil is evil no matter what flag it flies.

I wonder how many Sudaniese people would be alive right now, if they would have had a 2nd admendment. You'll never seen genocide, where there's an armed populace.

Edited to add- Maybe you won't be so quick to hit the warn button this time. This generic warning system also has to go. What exactly was worth warning me over? Did you even read what he said prior to my post?

[edit on 22-9-2006 by WithoutEqual]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
When people cheer and praise there system which allows them to buy automatic rifles simply for display, and recreational use, it shows the insanity and stupidity of mankind in its fight for survival.

I still cringe when I think about the american who debated taking a GUN To church is AOK simply because the law allows me to do it.

We are humans before we are citizens,
and owning a machine that can murder and maime INNOCENT people in truley tragic and unforseen circumstances is a haneous crime against humanity.

I beleive in self defense, and a countries right to arm itself.
But when regular citizens are allowed to buy an AK47 for there HOUSE, it borders on the verge of insanity.

If you want to defend yourself? Learn a martial art, do some weights and avoid troublesome area's where there's greater chance you'll be mugged.

If you want to increase the chances at which your family members are accidently shot and killed.. then go buy urself an AK47 and leave it in your house.

Unfrigggen believable that anyone can debate 'for' having guns, and automatics simply for fun.

Thats the reason your countrymen are disarmed and therefore at the mercy of your government. What gets me is instead of being truthful about the situation of your nation's citizens, you attempt to praise a system which neuters your citizens.


Enough of that.........


It will never happen in the US without a MAJOR conflict.

I think the anti-gun people should see the harmony and mutual respect between citizens who are armed. I suppose it is a feeling and a concept which would seem awkward and foreign among those who are usually unable to bear Arms.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by XphilesPhan]

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
When people cheer and praise there system which allows them to buy automatic rifles simply for display, and recreational use, it shows the insanity and stupidity of mankind in its fight for survival.

I still cringe when I think about the american who debated taking a GUN To church is AOK simply because the law allows me to do it.

We are humans before we are citizens,
and owning a machine that can murder and maime INNOCENT people in truley tragic and unforseen circumstances is a haneous crime against humanity.

I beleive in self defense, and a countries right to arm itself.
But when regular citizens are allowed to buy an AK47 for there HOUSE, it borders on the verge of insanity.

If you want to defend yourself? Learn a martial art, do some weights and avoid troublesome area's where there's greater chance you'll be mugged.

If you want to increase the chances at which your family members are accidently shot and killed.. then go buy urself an AK47 and leave it in your house.

Unfrigggen believable that anyone can debate 'for' having guns, and automatics simply for fun.

I'm about 6ft tall and over 200 lbs. I've worked as a bouncer in clubs and raves in both the US and the UK. I can hold my own in most self-defense situation but I know one that I cannot : when someone who has a gun and is determined to do some one harm. The only response to some one with a firearm is another firearm. If you're a 5 ft tall and 100 lb woman, no level of martial arts is going to protect you from mulitple large male attackers except a firearm. A firearm will only give a determined attacker(s) pause if they're intent on doing you harm.
That said I believe anyone who's sane and not a felon convicted of a violent crime, should be able to legally own an semi-automatic or automatic firearm without license . The criminal elements in human society don't care if you're innocent or not when they want to intimidate or harm you. Far less people are killed by firearms then by automobiles every year worldwide but nobody suggests that we give up cars. Banning guns only makes those evildoers who possess them stronger.
Shooting a firearm is a martial art which requires practice. I had some women friends I made in the UK come visit me a few years ago. One of them saw one of my soft rifle cases hanging in my garage and asked if owned a firearm. I told her I owned several pistols and rilfes. She asked if we could go shooting while they were here in the states and I obliged her and her friend by taking them shooting. Her friend was appalled at first at the very idea but after she saw that we apparently were enjoying ourselves, she overcame her fear and before our day of plinking was done, she'd tried ever gun I owned and especially liked shooting my milsurp semi-auto pistol. I've found that most people who want to ban guns have never had any experience with them. They're fear of firearms is based on their ignorance of them.
Here's a few tidbits of crime trivia that few people want to believe, most murders (outside of war) in the world aren't done by guns but by hand (clubbing or strangulation). Almost all male serial killers murder their victims by hand. Most female serial killers use poison or drugs to immoblize their victims and then kill them by hand. The most dangerous monsters that humanity has produced have rarely used a firearm to kill their victims. I'm rarely afraid of my neighbors with guns, I'm afraid of the one who I see stumbling drunk out of his vehicle that scares me.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by crgintx]

Originally posted by kozmo
As an American, a GUN OWNING American, I can assure you that this would NEVER happen. First of all, any attempt to tinker with the 2nd Ammendement to the Constitution of the United States of America will get alot of politicians in hot water, if not killed.

That cute little act you saw play out in NO will never occur again as a law was recently passed that forbids it. Second to that, they're gonna need to find a way to pry my guns out of my dead, rigormortised hands before they get them away from me - and I am hardly alone in that sentiment.

Sure, gun control works - just ask any dictator! Which is exactly WHY we have the 2nd Ammendment and why people like me will die defending it!

[edit on 21-9-2006 by kozmo]

you are right your not alone the day they try that is the day we have another civil war.

Thanks for all the replies although some are getting a little off topic, the discussion here is should the goverment be able to use the war on terror as a reason to remove your rights. Agit8dchop you said the people will never oppose the goverment well what was the war of Independance about. Did not the young America and its people fight to be free of the control of the British Goverment.

Strangerous Post, you think this is a ridiculess thread based on no facts, well your intitled to your opinion but please remember the Patriot Act was introduced in the wake of 9/11 this act and PA2 wont have any detterent effect on would be terrorist but it sure will affect the freedoms and liberty of the American people and of those who visit your country.
I posted this thread to hear your views, the American people, on how likely the removal of fire arms would affect the American people and would they allow it to happen.

"You have voted WithoutEqual for the Way Above Top Secret award."

Lots of you have carried this argument well. I wish there was something I could add, but there isn't.

The very fact that someone is unable to see the dangers to their own liberty makes them a perfect target for tyrany.

I thought this would be interesting to add to the discussion.

Greenleaf, Idaho -- All Americans have the right to bear arms. Some towns have even gone as far as to require each household to have a gun. Now a small Idaho town is contemplating a similar idea-- it's called the Civil Emergencies Ordinance. And although gun ownership is just one piece of this ordinance, it's the part that's getting the most attention.

Proposed ordinance requires guns in the house.

Seems in some places the local government wants it's people armed. Smart if you ask me

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Unfricken believeable that american citizens are willing to revolt and cause internal civil war if the government decided to change its laws and ban households from having murderous weapons, in the form of guns.

Unfrigginbelievable coming from an anti-American non-U.S. citizen who obviously has no clue about American law, history, society, constitution, values, or culture. You happy guns were banend in your country? Good. If thats what Kiwis want, kudos to them.

By the way, steak knives, baseball bats, and rope kill more people than guns. They are murderous weapons. Lets ban em!

BUT Lord behold if this same government changes its laws so it can spy on its citizens, invade and occupy other countries and allow some ruthless acts of terror to occur.. we jee's thats not worthy of a revolt.. we'll just argue over that one.

It is debateble because its not clear cut, the war in Iraq. Its not part of any constitutional violations. Spying on citizens? being dealt with and even overturned in some areas. Its a grey area in the constitution.

Where are your priorities americans?

Self reliance, personal freedom, self sufficiency, less government. In otherwords, the constitution.

Obviously, you'd rather have a gun in your hands than a peace dove flying over head,

Absolutely. Especially when you consider that the peace dove aint gonna save me from a rapist, a killer, or robber. A peace dove aint gonna do much of anything than coo as i get my guts ripped out from a criminal anyway.

so its no wonder the rest of the world wants to kill you.

Hmmmmmm.they do? Well then, guess the rest of the world dont like peace doves either. And if the rest of the world wants to kill us for what we do in our own borders, then the rest of the world is as pathetically hypocritically murderous as we are.

What positive effect are you having on the human race?

What postive effect are YOU having on the human race, hmmm?

Some humans we are good for, some bad. Its all about perspective, which you seriously have none.

Originally posted by Agit8dChop
Your right, it is your country.

Damn skippy it is.

But I bet Iraq doesnt appreciate that little statement.

What the hell does Iraq have to do with the second amendment?

Being your country is the 'beacon of peace' the front runners for world unity.

Um...we are? Really? Who said thaT. You? The US government? And you believed them? Hell, even most Americans know better than to listen to the drivel from DC, if they can be bothered to even notice it.

I dont understand why you all need guns.

Of course you dont. What I dont understand is why you care what Americans do in their own borders.

Although, there is one distinct advantage of americans owning guns.

There are several advantages to private law abding citizens to own guns. The founding fathers wouldnt have put it in the paperwork if it didnt serve a damn good purpose.

There's so damn many of you, so damn patriotic at times its hard to distinguish which one is a complete and utter t0$$er, and which one is atleast level headed enough to have a civilised conversation with and gain a friend.

Hmmm..name calling, and a totally incomprehensible nonsensible arguement. Sorry, you have failed at your own dogma on how to make friends and influence people.

I should write to a backpackers book and give them an idea in distinguishing between decent worth american friends, or typical american t055ers

What would you know about it? Hell, you know nothing about America or Americans or anything. Only what you may be fed by whatever propoganda machine you choose.

I mean, really. Youre quite a bigot. The worst kind, as you cant even see it. Even Klu Klux Klan, Nazis, and skinheads admit and know they are biggots.

1. What would you do, if the government decided guns in the home wasnt such a good idea, and that the country should start heading for a gunfree society

Such attempts by small factions of the government attempted....and failed miserably. Why? because the majority of people were against it, and being a democratic governmet, they are required to do what we want, or else we get mad.

If your new found friend answers
A: Hell no, ill pull out my 9 and cap any MOFO that tries to take my 2nd ammendmant right.

The its obvious the sorta american he is

Very obvious what kind of American he is. hes the kind of fellow American Id invite to dinner. Because he believes strongly in something to fight for it. because he believes in self reliance and that he is responsible for his own safety. That he understands his rights. That he believes in individual freedom.

He is a real American. In my opinion, thats a good thing. Your opinion would not count.

If he answers
B: Maybe these murdering machines in the hands of any member of society isnt such a good idea.. and a gun free america might actually be safe

then you sorta realise he has BRAINS, and wants a PEACEFUL SOCIETY.

No. He is a doped up hippie who does not live in the real world. he is a guy who should consider moving to Europe or some place where the governments decide and impliment what THEY think is good for the people, and screw what the people themselves want. He is a guy who does not believe in power by the people, but a nannyish father knows best state. Its his perrogative. he should consider moving elsewhere where that sort of thought is acceptable.

Banning guns would nopt a peaceful society make. britain has hardly any guns, yet there is alot of hooliganism and violence here, and anti-social behavior. Try again.

Im not bashing any of you.

Calling Americans tossers and saying its ok that people around the world want to kill us because of our culture and society is pretty much bashing by any definition.

Im giving you my personal opinion on people whom answer my theoretical question.

Opinions are like..um..well.heheheheh.never mind. Everyone has them...

Im not bashing america its a beautiful prosperous country

Oh, stop. Youre always bashing America. Dont deny it. Its not like youre the only one here who does it anyway. It weakens you when you deny something you are obviously engaging in.

Im bashing the total nutters whom regard not having a gun as the end of the world.

No youre not. Your bashing a way of life and a cultural tradition you are clueless about simply because you dont like it.

I never praised anyone... But your worldwide use of force is starting to shift the global consensus about your country.

Heres a couple of tidbits of info to chew on. Enjoy.

1. Global concensus about America has always been bad. If we dont use force, we are called uncaring and allowing even dictators to do bad things. We use force, we are aggressors. Personally, I support total American military isolationism no matter what unless we are directly attacked. Some actions we did militarily were necessary, some werent, and some plain stupid. But none have benefitted us, the citizens and people. Next time a major regional war happens, Im content to let the war rage on and let the fighting countries kill each other and do nothing to get involved.

2. Most Americans could really care less about what the world thinks of them. Its a nice thing. We dont consider ourselves to be part of the world popularity contest. We are sinmply happy within our own borders.

You mightnt care..

Finally. A correct statement from you.

but i found in my journeys around the world lately that americans are the butt of all jokes,

Really? Ive been in England for a year. The butt of most jokes here are the irish, the French, and the Pakistanis. It sounds like the circles you run in. Which does not surprise me.

the target of all street harrasment

Really? Ive been here a year and havent been harrassed badly or intolerably by anyone for being American. Just harrassed by a couple of kids bugging me for cigarettes. In fact, in Europe, the most street harrassment is directed towards Muslims and Asians.

and the grime on peoples shoes

The grime on my shoes is not American. It comes from walking through some pretty dirty alleys

soley because they believe guns, bombs and force is the answer to everything.

LMAO. This statement shows how clueless you are. You really dont know what youre talking about.

When Ive heard Americans being mocked, it was because the way we dressed, our geographical ignorance, and being fat. Oh, and driving on the wrong side of the road.

I know im not going to change any of your minds..

Hell, youd have a hard time convincing anyone but the most rabid leftist of anything.

Unforunately that wont happen until one of your guns accidently discharges in your childs face when he finds it.

Thats what gun locks and discipline are for.

Originally posted by JackJuice
I thought this would be interesting to add to the discussion.

Greenleaf, Idaho -- All Americans have the right to bear arms. Some towns have even gone as far as to require each household to have a gun. Now a small Idaho town is contemplating a similar idea-- it's called the Civil Emergencies Ordinance. And although gun ownership is just one piece of this ordinance, it's the part that's getting the most attention.

Proposed ordinance requires guns in the house.

Seems in some places the local government wants it's people armed. Smart if you ask me

Amen brother.

I was once a single female living alone in a very bad neighborhood. I had a 12 gauge next to my bed. I fpund it a cheaper and better security device than alarms or even a large muscly boyfriend.

And when I went out alone at night, I carried a .38. I had a carry permit. Ive never had even a parking ticket. And Ive never shot anyone. However, I have been in situations where simply showing it was enough to deter violence or a threat.

war on terror... not war against terror.. slick mofos

Anyone with a lick of sense in their heads knows that alarms do almost nothing. they might scare off some burglars, but the rest? Well, then you're screwed. Yeah, you can call 911, but in the five or ten minutes it takes for them to get there, have you be raped, maimed or killed?

In all odds.

Sure, the police *MIGHT* catch the guy, but seeing as you've been mauled already, I'm sure that's some consolation.

DE