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a L l o f O u r a V e n u E s a r e w i d e.
LOVE is an equidistant letter sequence (ELS). Such codes can have a skip of any length and can either be forward or backward.
So How Does This Apply to the Bible?
The first ELSs discovered were found in the Torah, the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, which were ostensibly written by Moses, the prophet who led his people out of Egypt.
More than 50 years ago, a Jewish rabbi (H.M.D. Weissmandel) noted that if you start with a T (tav) in the first verse of the book of Genesis, skip 50 letters, pick up a V (vav), skip another 50 letters, pick up an R (resh), skip another 50 letters, and pick up an H (heh), you have TVRH, or Torah as it is spelled in Hebrew.
Now this occurs, mind you, not only in the first book of the Torah, but also in the first verses of the books of Exodus and Numbers. It also appears in the first chapter of the book of Deuteronomy. In each case there is also a skip of exactly 50 letters.
Drosnin doesn't stop with the Rabin codes, however. He goes on to present numerous clusters of codes that would be astounding if only they were not coincidental.
Here is a sampler of codes that are displayed in crossword clusters:
Economic collapse, the depression, 1929 and stocks.
Atomic holocaust and 1945.
Watergate and "Who is he? President, but he was kicked out."
World War and atomic holocaust.
While all of these are bad events, Drosnin also presents a few positive clusters:
Wright brothers and airplane.
Shakespeare, presented on stage, Macbeth and Hamlet.
Newton and gravity.
Edison, electricity and light bulb.
Fall of, communism, Russian, in China next.
Rips and Witztum invented the ELS letter array and used a computer to find many examples. About 1985, they decided to carry out a formal test and the Great rabbis experiment was born. This experiment tested the hypothesis that ELSs for the names of famous rabbis could be found closer to ELSs of their dates of birth and death than chance alone could explain. The definition of "close" was complex but, roughly, two ELSs are close if they can be displayed together in a small rectangle. The experiment succeeded in finding sequences which fit these definitions, and they were interpreted as indicating the phenomenon was real.
The great rabbis experiment went through several iterations but was eventually published (1994) in the peer-reviewed journal Statistical Science. Although neither the Editor nor the referees were convinced by it, nor could they find much formally wrong with it, so the paper was published as a "challenging puzzle". Statistical Science, it should be noted, does not publish original research, but concentrates on surveys, interviews and interesting statistical puzzles.
Witztum and Rips also performed other experiments, most of them successful, though none were published in journals. Another experiment, in which the names of the famous rabbis were matched against the places of their births and deaths (rather than the dates), was conducted by Harold Gans, an employee of the United States National Security Agency . Again, the results were interpreted as being meaningful and thus suggestive of a more than chance result.
The McKay paper did not go so far as to accuse Witzum and Rips of falsifying their experiment, instead it argues that the ELS experiment is extraordinarily sensitive to very small changes in the spellings of appellations. This fact, when combined with available wiggle room, was exploited by McKay et al. to duplicate the Genesis result in a Hebrew translation of War and Peace.
There has been a continuing debate on these claims.
While this example was fairly comparable to clusters Bible code researchers had presented back then, our researchers have unearthed clusters that look like mountains compared to the molehill of the Hanukah example. In this report we present a detailed side-by-side comparison of the Hanukah example and the most extensive cluster researchers have located to date-- the explosive Isaiah 53 codes. In short, what skeptics told us three years ago is now completely out of date.
Are the skeptics right?
Definitely not. All the skeptics showed was that very simple clusters of short codes can be found in any book. The examples they provided from Moby Dick and War and Peace were fairly comparable to many of the simpler published examples, but they are seriously out of date. Some proponents’ recently discovered clusters of Bible codes are so complex and extensive that they really couldn’t be a coincidence. The most extensive cluster of Bible codes found to date (the Isaiah 53 cluster) is vastly more complex and improbable than the most extensive cluster found in any book other than the Bible. There really is no comparison. Click here for details.
There is no doubt that Ezekiel 40 is encoded. The probability that chance is the explanation for what has been discovered to date in (and close by) that chapter is essentially zero. We base this firm conclusion on three sets of observations:
The actual number of War ELSs in Ezekiel 40:1-41:1 is 19 (as compared with 6.27 expected by chance). Odds: One in 96 million.
Ten of the War ELSs in Ezekiel 40 are part of a much longer ELS that is itself about war.
Odds: less than one in 60,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
Prior investigations discovered an exceptional number of lengthy ELSs that cross the text of Ezekiel 40 that deal with current and End Times events.
What does this all mean? To some it means that the patterns in Genesis are intentional and that God is the ultimate author of the code. If so, should the Book of Isaiah, and any other book in the Bible that fails the ELS test, be dumped? Should we conclude that these statistics verify the claim that the Jews are the chosen people of God, or that no more names should be added to list of Great Men in Israel unless they pass the ELS test? Unless other religions can duplicate such statistically improbable results, the mathematically minded supernaturalist might well consider them to be imposters. Should we translate all the sacred books of all the religions of the world into Hebrew and see how many great men of Israel are encoded there?
Can Bible codes be used to predict the future or to discover new truths?
No. Here are six reasons: 1) Codes are typically open to multiple interpretations since the text used has no vowels or syntax markings and Hebrew is a very terse language. 2) We often can’t be sure where spaces between words should be. 3) There is no assurance that the code(s) comprise the whole message. 4) It might just be a coincidence. 5) Clusters about different events could simply overlap, so how could we be certain that just because two codes were close to one another, they must be related. 6) Finally, copying errors by ancient scribes, or changes in spelling conventions, may have changed the spacing a bit, creating some unintended ELSs. If codes provided a message that contradicted the literal text, it would be foolish to accept its content as preferable—given all of the uncertainties just cited.
Originally posted by Argos
As you can see such a process over the whole of the Torah by hand, with all the different Nths possible (e.g. every fourth letter, every tenth letter and so on.) makes its an arduous task without the processing capability of a computer.
Originally posted by Funkydung
how do we account for all this pre knowledge of wolrd history embedded in the text of a book thousands of years before it actually took place? divine inspiration.
psalms 139:6 such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, i cannot attain it.
[edit on 23-9-2006 by Funkydung]
beenly divisible by seven (with no remainders)
the number of letters must be divisible by seven
the number of vowels and consonants must be divisible by seven
the number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by seven
the number of words that begin with a consonant must be divisible by seven
the number of words that occur more than once, must be divisible by seven
the number of words that occur in more than one form must be divisible by seven
the number of words that occur only in one form must be divisible by seven
the number of names in the genealogy must be divisible by seven
the number of male names must be divisible by seven
and the number of generations in the genealogy must be divisible by seven
would it not be next to impossible to draw up such a genealogy? yet this describes exactly the genealogy of the messiah as given in the gospel of matthew 1 :2-17.
a hidden code encrypted in the hebrew lettering of the pentateuch, which is the name for the first five books of the old testament.
these are written originally in hebrew. if you take the first hebrew letter in genesis, skip 49 and take the next letter, and repeat the skip sequence, then every four letters spells torh (the Hebrew word pronounced 'torah', meaning 'the law of god').
this holds all the way through the first two books of the bible, genesis and exodus. when you get to the middle book of the five, leviticus, it stops. however, when you do the same skip sequence for deuteronomy and the book of numbers, it spells hrot, which is torh backwards.
go back now to the middle book of the five, leviticus, use the skip sequence again this time skipping every SEVEN letters, and it spells YHWH (pronounced YAWEH). which is the hebrew name for god!
so we have every 49 letters in genesis and exodus spelling 'the law of god' and pointing to leviticus, and every 49 letters of deuteronomy and numbers spelling 'the law of god' backwards and pointing to leviticus. every seven letters in this book spells YAWH; god himself.
Genesis Leviticus Deuterony
Originally posted by ben91069
My conclusion is that Bible Codes are real, but they are much like the Bible itself and can be interpreted in different ways.
There is a lot more evidence that the Torah has been encoded systematically over a more contemporarily written book like Moby Dick or even the latest edition of Time magazine. But this is only like saying a Volvo is engineered better for safety than a Yugo. It is obvious, but yet it is also relative to the observer as to its meaning.
The codes have been shown that both the one doing the decoding and the message itself doesn't have an absolute bearing on what actually happens. My conclusion is that it is like biting into a chocolate chip cookie and finding a lot of chocolate chips. It doesn't make the cookie not what it is, but it adds to the fact that it is what it is.
I think the truth of the codes lies within our ability to interpret them aligned with the authors meaning, just like the Bible was meant to.
Originally posted by JustMy2Cents
I've never believed in the "bible codes". However, a bit more than a week ago, I decided, for FUN (and curiosity), to write a program that allows me to view "codes" in the KJV. I don't read Hebrew, and don't plan to learn it, so I figured, why not have some fun, and check for "codes" in english. To my amazement, it's almost become an obsession, as I have found some rather "NEAT" codes in Ezekiel, between chapters 21 and 27. Such as:
Using a Skip of 777 (7 Seals, 7 trumpets, 7 plagues) I found
"Head of State Gorge Bush" RIGHT NEXT TO "Ruler", "Leader", "Eagle", "Flags", "City", "States", and "Heap"
A few columns off there is also "Beast Seat", "Sodom", "Death", "Fire", "TenTevet" (will explain this one below!!!)
A few hudred columns off, and using the same Skip value, there is also "Fiery Hell", "Secret Name", "Apple"
"Manhattan" is found in one place, starting in Eze 20, with a skip of 5755 (I wonder if that's a Jewish year for something significant that happened in the US, 1994/1995)
I found 7 and 8 letters words as well, in the same Grid: Disrated, Stentors, Intraday, Linesman, Igniter, Suttees, Tootsie, Toasted, Entente, Delimit, Sheathe, Feinted, Hilloas, Hallo, Hilloed, Besmuts, and Radiate.
Ok, at first, this was just for entertainment, but then I found what I call, "the anomaly". Ezekiel 24 is a prophecy about something happening to "the Bloody City". This something involves Awesome Heat, and occurs on the tenth day of the tenth Jewish month (Tevet). Now, here's where the "anomaly" occurs. "TEN-TEVET" is found using a skip value of 776, only 1 row down, and 7 letters to the right of the straight bible text "THE TENTH MONTH IN THE TENTH DAY". That day happens to be the Tenth of Tevet, which, this year, falls on December 31.
I am now working on statistics of 9, 8, and 7 letter words found in the OT. I want to come up with the probabilty of all these words found in the same Grid.
In other ATS threads, there's been much talk about an imminent attack on US Soil, possibly nuclear. From my studies of Revelation 19, I do believe that a fiery attack will occur on the United Nations building in NYC, killing Annan and the Pres of the US. Perhaps the Pres will be in NY on Dec 31, or perhaps DC will be attacked at the same time as NY.
Originally posted by City_sea
I don't believe them. I read a few books and they left me unconvinced.
If you look carefully and hard enough at any given set of data, with the will to see what you want to see, you begin to do such. He who pays the piper selects the tune, and so on. If I was absolutely hellbent on proving something I'm sure I could. there is just such a mass of data in the bible, I'm sure if I arranged it in whichever way I felt I could come up with whatever I wanted to prove.
Originally posted by JustMy2Cents
Funkydung, I was intrigued by what you presented, regarding the genealogy of Messiah, however, after actually going through the motions, it appears your external source is too fantastic to believe. I do agree though that the other anomaly, regarding Torah, Torah, YHWH, harot, harot is likely NOT by chance. I just wish I could read Hebrew to prove it for myself. For now, I guess I just have to take their word for it. Sadly, taking someone elses word has led SO MANY to believe in myths, urban legends, and downright falsehoods.
[Edited some mispelled words]
[edit on 23-9-2006 by JustMy2Cents]