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Alien Objects Orbiting Saturn's Rings??

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posted on Sep, 21 2006 @ 11:57 PM
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This is the book John was talking about:


It is almost unimaginable that Dr. Bergrun could privately undertake such a detailed study of NASA Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 photographs of the rings of Saturn. He has discovered how the rings are being formed by emissions emerging from gigantic electromagnetic vehicles (EMV's) possibly being controlled by a form of intelligence.


Ringmakers of Saturn


I've done a search on Amazon, Ebay etc etc and it is going for big bucks. It seems this book is in some demand and there aren't enough to go around.




posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 12:11 AM
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Jesus H, you should check out this guys credentials...

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Dr. Norman Bergrun is an alumnus of Ames Research Laboratory, NACA (National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics) predecessor of Ames Research Center, NASA where he worked twelve years as a research scientist. At Ames, he pioneered the setting of design criteria for airplane thermal ice-prevention and the developing of roll stability laws for airplanes, missiles and rockets.

He joined Lockheed Missiles and Space Company (now Lockheed Martin) where he was manager of the planning and analysis of flight tests for the Navy Polaris Underwater Launch Missile System. During his thirteen years at Lockheed, he also served as a senior scientist having responsible analysis cognizance of special space-satellite applications.



Bergrun holds a BSME degree from Cornell University, an LLB from LaSalle University Extension, a DSc (Hon) from World University and a California Professional Engineer (PE) License. He also has engaged in graduate aerospace studies at Stanford University. He is a founder of the California Society of Professional Engineers Education Foundation, is author of two books Tomorrow's Technology Today and Ringmakers of Saturn and has published over 100 papers. Two recent manuscripts, Lunar Life Forms: Revelations of Apollo 14 and Mars Puts on a Good Face: The Masquerade, have been registered with the Library of Congress, Washington, D. C. He has lectured in the United States, Canada, England and Europe.


Credited with numerous awards and citations including the California Society of Professional Engineers Archimedes Engineering Achievement Award, and Special Service Citations for contributions to the AIAA National Public Policy and to the Regional Sections Activity Committees, he is listed in Marquis "Who's Who in the World", "Who's Who in America", "Who's Who in Science and Engineering", and other reference works.



There is mention of other works there that look interesting.

[edit on 22/9/06 by Prote]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Found an intersting article HERE dealing with Rings of Saturn. Still searching for those other papers...

I know that these are in the Library of Congress, but haven't been able to find them anywhere else yet...



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 12:30 AM
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Can I ask a really dumb question?

Mr. Lear you can choose to reply or not, as the question might not be worth your time.

But the one ovbious question I have is why? Why would anyone/thing want to build ice rings around a planet? It must have some ovbious function or postitive gain otherwise why would anyone do it? Say it is a alien civilization, wouldn't they have taxes or something similar to fund a project like that? If so, I highly doubt anyone would support a proposal to build ice rings (a rather large project) just for asthetic purposes.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 01:01 AM
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Sounds to me like a planet being built maybe they are terra-forming it



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 01:57 AM
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What if mankind was an experiment or otherwise strange scenario where earth is truely a giant melting pot for civilizations from all the planets. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus...right?

Personally, I grew up with an uninhibited intrigue over Saturn, my home planet. I look a little strange and I imagined once my family flew here on a cream pie (it's parked outside).

I'm only joking about the pie.

It's a phenomenon sort of like the ABC t.v. show Lost, which has a huge mystical element in the plot.

I suppose the same might be said about the new Survivor which has the teams battling one another for the million $ grand prize. As we know they separated the teams by races. How about the next Survivor be the battle between the people of Venus, Earth, Mars and Saturn?

Ok that was another bad joke.

I'll stop now, but I will continue to ponder this.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by S1LV3R4D0
For those that have loads of questions for Mr.Lear please go here Questions for John Lear so that the original Post is not distracted from. John is very accomodating to question asking as you can see.

For those that dont know who he is or would ridicule Mr.Lear with childish remarks allow me to quote Mirthful Me, one of the mods from that thread.



I don't mean any disrespect S1LV3R4D0 but why would a person make a statement about how things really are and not offer to prove it. I wouldn't consider that being abusive, but only good common sense to question something like that. If we should question our government, then it stands to say we definitly should question strangers we meet through the internet even more. If someone makes a claim that a government entity that is supported by our taxes is basically ripping us off and taking us for fools, those statements should be backed up.



Pie



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 02:53 AM
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Originally posted by chetinglendalevillage
What if mankind was an experiment or otherwise strange scenario where earth is truely a giant melting pot for civilizations from all the planets. Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus...right?


If what some historians believe is correct, this isn't that far fetched from the truth. The Sumerians tell us of ancient gods: the annunaki, the nefilim; that came down from the heavens and came to be with woman to allow them to procreate; we supposedly couldn't pro-create a long long time ago because we, too, were a genetic experiment used only to mine the earth.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 04:12 AM
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I wonder if any of you have read Arthur C Clark’s novel ‘Rendezvous With Rama’. Amazing stuff.

It’s about a huge alien cylindrical spaceship 40 miles long and 20 miles in diameter headed towards the sun from outside the Solar System.

The description of the mystery ship from the inside is mind-boggling to say the least! Imagine being suspended half way through the cylinder where you can see 10 miles up and 10 miles down, and a ‘sea’ 10 miles in width circling the cylinder on the inside and in the middle! His description is way out of this world.


Inside Rama

Now my point is, was Arthur C Clark privy to info that John Lear has, based on which he wrote the book? Is there a parallel between ‘Rama’ and the supposed cylinderical alien ‘mother ships’ now orbiting Saturn?



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear
Sorry for the delay, I was working on the Copernicus Crater.

Norm Bergrun wrote "Ringmakers of Saturn" and shows in detail how he found (from Voyager 1 and 2 images) 3 huge spaceships making the rings of Saturn.


According to Dr Rich Boylan, when Bergrun was asked in the Alan Handlemann radio interview program on WRFX-FM why NASA and other governmental agencies haven't released this information before, Dr. Bergrun answered:

The 1958 Space Act states that the public will be informed about results of space photos and data only IF it is determined that such data is not a threat; and that a craft this size would be considered a threat, and would be deemed to have great military significance. As such, it would fall under the "top black-budget military intelligence agencies".
[Ed. note: Operation Right To Know reports that an intelligence agency is in control of NASA now.]

www.v-j-enterprises.com...



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:07 AM
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Originally posted by TheAnt
I love it how people are just blowing this off as bogus.

Read some Sitchin, that might just change your outlook on things.


You can do a search on this very forum to see how effectively Sitchin can be debunked.

Reading his books alone, he makes a very good case, but if one were to look for proof of his claims, it would be very difficult to find corroborating evidence.

--------------

I mean no disrespect to Mr. Lear here, but some of the things stated in this thread appear utterly ridiculous. Without proof, or explanation anyone could state anything as fact....... isn't the point of this site is to get to the truth of matters of conspiracy theory?...... Without proof and explanation how are we supposed to gain any ground on the search for truth?

I was under the impression that wildly stating fantastical claims without evidence or explanation was against the forum rules? Or does Mr. Lear have special privileges on this because he is a celebrity?


[edit on 22-9-2006 by VelvetSplash]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:43 AM
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Originally posted by m3gaman
The only photos of a 'real' Saturn that would be so shocking that I could not walk or talk for a day would be of an earthly Saturn. That is, a huge planet with rings around it looking like Earth. Mr. Lear you claim that humans live on planets like Venus and Neptune. The atmospheres of these planets make that impossible. The tempatures of these planets make that impossible. Why in the hell would other humans living on these planets not make contact with the ones here on Earth? They have not because they do not exist and they dont exist because it is impossible for them to. If someone was mining the moon then we here on Earth would have/would be seeing this going on. People with backyard telescopes could see something going on. So many people on this board claim crazy things and everyone always ask, "where is the proof".
Can you show me a picture of Saturn that will blow my mind? Can you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that some aliens 'placed' the moon in orbit around the Earth? I think the explaination of the moons origin given by science is excelent and makes sence. How about your explaination?



WHS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 08:41 AM
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John Lear = John Titor?

It's amazing that others in this thread will accept someones word, when outrageous statements are made, when no proof what-so-ever is given.

It sounds like someone just wants to sell a book, which I thought was against the rules here.

It's amazing that Gallieo never saw these '30,000 miles long, 2,500 miles wide spaceships' who are manufacturing saturns rings.

Nor any other early astromoner but I guess the NWO was in charge back then too.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:00 AM
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I, too find it offensive that we are "told" to accept this man and his outrageous claims.....

He has not proven one shred of any of these claims, yet we are supposed to go along with it?

I will not result to childish remarks or personal jabs, but you do realize that these claims are absurd....not only because they would defy the laws of physics, but he is basically calling the entire world of science a farse....



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:08 AM
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Just to bring some balance here, I for one, suppport the likes of John Lear and John Titor for that matter.

The John Lears of the world have stated many times that they haven't got what you ask for in terms of proof. It's very easy to heckle.

The subjects that are brought to the table by these men are fascinating and even if they aren't true (which you are entitled to assume given the proof situation), the mere processing of the information expands your mind to possibilities.

John states what HE BELIEVES to be possible or true. No request of you to do the same is being made. The best advice is that if these insights are troublesome for anyone, best to avoid them safe in the knowledge that your proof demands are not going to be met.

The frustrating thing for some of us is that mega spacecraft around an inhabited Saturn doesn't make our heads pop and so an angry response doesn't come forth. Nether does belief, just wonderment and some of the best thought fodder available for a layman like me. The John Lear's of this world are the reason I come and participate in ATS.

[edit on 22/9/06 by Prote]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:16 AM
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Nobody's "told" to accept anything. Nobody has to "go along" with anything. I believe you can ask all the questions you want, and it's certainly up to you to accept or reject anything you choose to. John's stated several times he has no proof and is offering what he believes to be true based upon the information he's been privileged to receive. He's also stated his opinions are subject to change, and he's modified them over the years as new information has come to his attention.

All anyone's asking is that we not be insulting or abusive to any other members, including Mr. Lear. I can't see why anyone would find that "offensive" unless you're completely misinterpreting what's being asked of us by the T&C.

But that's just me.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:19 AM
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so basically, he is regarded as a science fiction author, since that is what they do too?

I just don't understand how a Mod can have the right to argue validity in a thread about religion, but we are told to listen to this guy as if what he is saying held any merit.....

What if I were to come out and say that I believed that the Earth didn't even exist, and the color orange was really just our eyes playing tricks on us....would I get the support of the leaders of ATS and have their protection, as well as a thread all about me and people getting to ask me questions?...I think not....

Another conspiracy theory is born....

and to get back on the topic of this thread...

Those shots of Saturn's rings seem to be rather interesting...however, couldn't millions of tiny ice particles in a concentrated pocket show up in the same fashion?....why can't that be just as true as gigantic spaceships orbiting the planet....

oh wait, I know why...it wouldn't be as interesting....so lets pretend it's something other than what it most likely is.....

[edit on 22-9-2006 by JSquared]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by JSquared
so basically, he is regarded as a science fiction author, since that is what they do too?


Probably safer if you follow this line of thought.



I just don't understand how a Mod can have the right to argue validity in a thread about religion, but we are told to listen to this guy as if what he is saying held any merit.....


You are not told to listen! The information is for those that do, not those that don't.


What if I were to come out and say that I believed that the Earth didn't even exist, and the color orange was really just our eyes playing tricks on us....would I get the support of the leaders of ATS and have their protection, as well as a thread all about me and people getting to ask me questions?...I think not....


Personally, crack on if you want to. If I felt that you were a loon, would I come and heckle you or would I stick to topics I think hold more interest for me, fact or fiction doesn't matter, I can process information, it's one of the skills I learned as a boy. The point is, if I think it's nuts, I stay well away. That's why I stay away from religious forums....they drive me up the wall.



Those shots of Saturn's rings seem to be rather interesting...however, couldn't millions of tiny ice particles in a concentrated pocket show up in the same fashion?....why can't that be just as true as gigantic spaceships orbiting the planet....

oh wait, I know why...it wouldn't be as interesting....so lets pretend it's something other than what it most likely is.....


Isn't the key to everything that we simply don't know. Even if you saw a 30,000 mile long spaceship flying around Saturn with your own eyes, you still could not assume to know what you have seen, how it works, it's purpose, anything.

Yes, it could be anything, ice, rocks, spaceships, frozen yogurt but all of us have beliefs that would raise the eyebrows of others.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 09:39 AM
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The thread I started where people could ask him questions was started because inevitably, every thread he posted on became overwhelmed with off-topic questions for him. That thread simply provides a place where you can ask him anything without taking over someone elses thread.

You are more than welcome to start a thread where people can do nothing but ask you questions, but I don't think it would be that popular. You would also be fine stating that the Earth doesn't exist and that the color orange is a fake, You can say whatever you want, just don't insult those that disagree with you.

Mr. Lear has stated on multiple occasions that he doesn't really care if you believe him or not. I personally don't think there is anyone here that beleives 100% of what he says, but its interesting and at least worth a read.

Perhaps the disussion about Mr. Lear and his claims should be moved to ATS Questions for John Lear so that this thread can get back on it's original very interesting topic......

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Tiloke]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 11:03 AM
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I have much respect for Mr. Lear and it does surprise me at the way some here just don't seem to understand that when dealing with this subject we are talking about a different reality.

You need to really open your minds. What is realistic for humans isn't the way it is in the universe.

We that have had experiences or come with knowledge try to share and open you up to this new reality but instead you will not consider differences because you are still thinking in your human reality.

It is hard for humans to realize that all "life" forms don't need Oxygen for life for example.

If humans want contact I would suggest making love not war. I would suggest working together and stop picking each other apart over words.

Sad that your Religon, Color and Nationality are still negatives. You all need to work together and get off your hands and knees and hold one another up, remember you are unique you are HUMAN.





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