It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
I'd be happy to discuss any particular aspect of freemasonry that you find distasteful. On most occasions that I have made this offer the poster seems to disappear, but I have found your posts thus far genuine and extremely intelligent, and would anticipate that your attitude and arguments are similarly sensible.
Welcome Raven Windfree
Originally posted by RavenWindfree
For one thing everyone, The Free masons, the REAL ones.. the higher ones who know of the secrets are the ones who keep it from the lower masons ok? What's with the masonic capstone at the Denver International Airport, in which there is a base undertneath the thing, not to mention the murals.. I am not going to argue about that. Even though I have seen the reptilians, I don't have any proof, but my research and the fact that , that stupid stone is in the airport is enough to tell me that the masons aren't up to anything "good"...
Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
With that said could it simply be that the inner fraternity has true knowledge of the symbols, while telling the others a different story?
Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
Perhaps even these fellas were only painfully aware of the situation, yet still unable to breach the "inner sanctum", and provided what they believed to be true meanings. It is like the scientist who teaches quantum physics, yet reveals only to himself that even he does not fully comprehend what he is teaching. Sort of the blind leading the blind, and throughout all he knows, he knows most that he is still... blind...perhaps
Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I would be happy to listen to anything anyone has to say. This is an open forum.
All we keep getting from the Masons or Pro-Masons is dismissal.
How about some facts...some information.
I have provided about 10 sources and yet, only 2 of them have been mentioned. One was completely dismissed as the words of a madman and the other dismissed for I don't even remember why at this point. What about the rest? APPAK says "it's all the same old same old".....
I thought you were going to reply to Cino's post on the mummys.
The problem I see is that you cling so hard on to your truth, and get offended when someone questions it.
I have seen and researched something that do not cohere with what you are saying is the official mason story.
yet still unable to breach the "inner sanctum", and provided what they believed to be true meanings.
Based on what you are saying, who are we to believe is a "real" Mason and who is not a real Mason?
StalkingWolf...I actually had respect for you until this.
We are having an argument/debate here
and your tactic is to rag on where I live?
Why don't you comment on what I have to say and not where I'm from.
What does where I'm from have to do with the discussion?
Does the color of my skin also have something to do with it? Or my faith? All I can say is...pathetic!
"Rule By Secrecy," by Jim Marrs...connects the Trilateral Commission (also run by the Illuminati just like the FED is) with the Freemasons. Why would the Freemasons be involved with the Trilateral Commission? Why? Because they are both involved with the Illuminati.
"Crossfire," by Jim Marrs....links the FED and the secret organizations behind it to the JFK assassination.
"Final Warning: A history of The New World Order," by David Allen Rivera....links them all: The illuminati, the House of Rothschild, Freemasons, Skull & Bones, The FED and more.
"The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave," by Fritz Springmeier & Cisco Wheeler.....this book doesn't talk about something going on in 1790 or earlier...it's talking about today!....makes one think about MKULTRA and people like Sirhan Sirhan...an obviously mind controlled assassin.
"UN is the Spawn of the Illuminati," a paper by Myron C. Fagan...
The Illuminati and The Council on Foreign Relations
By Myron C. Fagan
Part 1
"The question of how and why the United Nations is the crux of the great conspiracy to destroy the sovereignty of the United States and the enslavement of the American people within a U.N. one-world dictatorship is a complete and unknown mystery to the vast majority of the American people. The reason for this unawareness of the frightening danger to our country and to the entire free world is simple. The masterminds behind this great conspiracy have absolute control of all of our mass communications media, especially television, the radio, the press, and Hollywood. We all know that our State Department, the Pentagon, and the White House have brazenly proclaimed that they have the right and the power to manage the news, to tell us not the truth but what they want us to believe. They have seized that power on orders from their masters of the great conspiracy and the objective is to brainwash the people into accepting the phony peace bait to transform the United States into an enslaved unit of the United Nations' one-world government.
source: johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com...
"Now then, this satanic plot was launched back in the 1760's when it first came into existence under the name "Illuminati." This Illuminati was organized by one Adam Weishaupt, born a Jew, who was converted to Catholicism and became a Catholic priest, Naturally, the Rothschilds financed that operation and every war since then, beginning with the French Revolution, has been promoted by the Illuminati operating under various names and guises. I say under various names and guises because after the Illuminati was exposed and became notorious, Weishaupt and his co-conspirators began to operate under various other names. In the United States, immediately after World War I, they set up what they called the "Council on Foreign Relations," commonly referred to as the CFR, and this CFR is actually the Illuminati in the United States and its hierarchy. The masterminds in control of the original Illuminati conspirators, but to conceal that fact, most of them changed their original family names to American sounding names. For example, the true name of the Dillons, Clarence and Douglas Dillon (one Secretary of the U.S. Treasury Department), is Laposky. I'll come back to all this later.
"There is a similar establishment of the Illuminati in England operating under the name of the "British Institute of International Affairs." (The Royal Institute of International Affairs, actually) There are similar secret Illuminati organizations in France, Germany, and other nations operating under different names and all these organizations, including the CFR, continuously set up numerous subsidiary or front organizations that are infiltrated into every phase of the various nations' affairs.But at all times, the operations of these organizations were and are masterminded and controlled by the Internationalist Bankers, who in turn were and are controlled by the Rothschilds.
One of the prime agents in this control is through the International BAR Association and it's splinter groups such as the America BAR Association. It is important to note that there are BAR Associations in nearly every nation world wide now, pushing the United Nations.)
"Who are the Illuminati," by Lindsay Porter.....
What links an 18th-century president of Yale, an inter-war aristocratic Nazi sympathizer, a McCarthy-era anticommunist zealot and the former editor of Playboy? How are the origins of the French Revolution, the murder of the Romanovs, the design of the dollar bill and alien abductions connected?
The answer lies with one of the world's most mysterious, feared and arguably, maligned secret societies - the Illuminati. References to the Illuminati span centuries, millennia even, yet the group actually existed for little over a decade. So why are they said to be behind the world's greatest conspiracies?
For nearly 250 years references to the Illuminati and their alleged influence on major world world events have continued to resurface.
source: www.whsmith.co.uk...
"Unholy Alliances: The Secret Plan and The Secret People who are working to destroy America," by Dr. James W. Wardner....
In my previous newsletter, TTT #23, entitled "The Planned Destruction of America", (Part I), dated April 4, 2003, I listed a number of groups that were working to DESTROY America’s national sovereignty. These groups included: the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, large multinational corporations, the establishment-CONTROLLED mainstream media, major financial institutions, the United Nations, large tax-exempt foundations, intelligence services, "extremist groups", secret societies, the National Education Association, the U.S. Department of Education, the military-industrial complex, etc.
source: www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net...
This last source has a lot of information from a very educated gentleman on the subject....Dr. James W. Wardner....call the groups what you want: The FED, Trilateral Commission, Bildebergers, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. etc. etc.....they ARE the Illuminati!!
"Solomon's Power Brokers: The Secrets of Freemasonry, The Church and The Illuminati" by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler
"The Illuminati and Their Plans for The Future," by Adrian Krieg
"Some Things You Need To Know Before The World Ends (A Final Evening with The Illuminati)," by Levi Lee and Larry Larson
"Circle of Intrigue: The Hidden Inner Circle of The Global Illuminati Conspiracy," by Texe Marrs
"Empower The People: Overthrow The Conspiracy That is Stealing Your Money and Freedom," by Tony Brown
Pretty simple....Masons are a large worldwide fraternal organization. Infiltrating such a large group and gaining control over it would just get the Illuminati one step closer to their common goal....complete control over the whole planet.
Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
" Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity -- an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect ... it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as 'of majestic dignity, grandeur'] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']." [Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 433]
source: Lectures on Ancient Philosophy by Manly Hall
The above quote pretty much says it all. The FreeMasons are a fraternity within a fraternity. On the outside they pretend to be a wonderful organization out to do great things for mankind. On the inside, they are Illuminati through and through. One of the many groups working its way toward the NWO! The Masons are a cult and the leaders of the cult are the Illuminati. The Masons are one of many organizations that the Illuminati have in their pocket.
Yes, but what about them? What point are you supporting by simply listing a number of books?
And, again, what has any of this got to do with freemasonry?
Why are The Freemasons Recruiting on radio and TV?
Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
TrinityMan....I provided the list of books/sources for Nygdan. He asked me for proof that the Illuminati still existed. That's what I did. You will have to go back many pages to see where he asked for sources from me to prove what I was saying about the Illuminati being alive and well...actually, more powerful than ever. He did not ask for ANY information with regards to FreeMasons at that time. It just so happens that most information on the Illuminati ends up proving involvement of some kind or other with FreeMasonry.
I will get to the rest of your long posts shortly.....just got in from work and need to take care of a few things first. I will be back shortly......
quote: We are having an argument/debate here
answer: from StalkingWolf
Not Exactly, You have lowered yourself to a point that you have become that which you hate. You use the same tactic as the fundies use, I am right and you are wrong.
quote: and your tactic is to rag on where I live?
answer: from StalkingWolf
Perhaps you forget, I live in the same area. You are however presenting the impression here that most who visit our area have of the " Locals". What I said
was not to "rag on" you but in the hope that you would step back and look at the WHY. Obviously it was a forlorn hope.
quote: Why don't you comment on what I have to say and not where I'm from.
answer: from StalkingWolf
because your comments have been argued so many times over the mere 2.5 years I have been on this site that if the admins were to remove all the duplicate posts/threads containing the same arguements and "facts" the bandwidth usage would drop by at least 66%.
Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Illuminati are quite alive and quite well and quite a bit more powerful than ever.
They include the FED and all its stockholders (private stock) which include families such as the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans, Warburgs, and other international banking families; TC, CFR, Bildebergers and so on.
BTW, The Illuminati also control the Vatican.
Not too shabby controlling the entire Catholic Church!
Many believe that the FreeMasons are also part of this group.
I think perhaps they are just a pawn of the Illuminati....just as the Skull & Bones are.....
I don't think the members of the FreeMasons are capable of the kind of the total sociopathic behavior necessary to be true Illuminati.
But, I think they are capable of being in the pocket of the Illuminati without even knowing it (at least probably 99.9% of the members without knowing it).
There is corruption within the FreeMasons as with any organization. The corrupt members are the ones who need to be looked at. What are their true agendas...etc.
I will give you and any other Masons on here the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of you are kind people just out to do good things.
I am quite concerned, however, with an organization that will sit back and read tons of material that points to them being involved with the Illuminati and pass it all off as bunk without offering a reason.
All I've heard is that I am wrong. Well...why am I wrong?
Why is there so much information that points to a link between the Illuminati and the FreeMasons?
No one is saying the Elks are involved with the Illuminati...or the Moose lodges, or the Eagles, or the Rotary Clubs, or the Knights of Columbus (actually I think some may be saying the K of C are involved, but I have no info on that), or the American Legion, etc.....etc.....etc.....No one is pointing the finger at any large fraternal organization except the FreeMasons. Why is that? There must be a reason. What is the reason?
The reason is most likely that there is some truth to it......as much as all the FreeMasons on here don't want to hear that!!
Originally posted by Cinosamitna
Is there a decline in the membership of Free Masonic Lodges? If so, does anyone have any idea why?
quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Illuminati are quite alive and quite well and quite a bit more powerful than ever.
EB,
How do you KNOW this? What proof do you have? You made the statement as fact...back it up. I contend you're wrong. Prove they DO exist. Can you?