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Why are The Freemasons Recruiting on radio and TV?

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posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 10:16 PM
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Roark,
Is it safe to say that these symbols had a completely different meaning to Masons of old, compared to the new guard currently holding the lodges? With that said could it simply be that the inner fraternity has true knowledge of the symbols, while telling the others a different story? For instance in a martial arts kata, there are meanings to the various stances and strikes/blocks that are told to the student, but there are completely different meanings for the same moves to the sensei, or teacher. The student will argue that his meanings are correct until he achieves a level of mastery that opens his eyes, or is taught the true meanings by the grandmaster of a given style.

mmmm...coffee....good.




posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 11:30 PM
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Whilst your analogy is excellent, the fundamental symbols of Freemasory have been attributed the same meaning since its inception, and so the answer is no. For example, I have a ritual book which dates from the 19th century, and it is consistent with what I have learnt first-hand in Lodge.

There may well be deeper and more profound meanings that one could explore, especially in relation to the broader world of esotericism but, to my knowledge, every Master Mason around the world (in a regular lodge) has been given the same attributions for our symbols throughout history since the formation of speculative Masonry (circa 1717).



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:53 AM
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I'd be happy to discuss any particular aspect of freemasonry that you find distasteful. On most occasions that I have made this offer the poster seems to disappear, but I have found your posts thus far genuine and extremely intelligent, and would anticipate that your attitude and arguments are similarly sensible.



I would be happy to listen to anything anyone has to say. This is an open forum. All we keep getting from the Masons or Pro-Masons is dismissal. How about some facts...some information. I have provided about 10 sources and yet, only 2 of them have been mentioned. One was completely dismissed as the words of a madman and the other dismissed for I don't even remember why at this point. What about the rest? APPAK says "it's all the same old same old".....

OKAY....give us some pro-Mason information already instead of just telling me and others that our information is crap!



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 07:10 AM
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Originally posted by RavenWindfree
For one thing everyone, The Free masons, the REAL ones.. the higher ones who know of the secrets are the ones who keep it from the lower masons ok? What's with the masonic capstone at the Denver International Airport, in which there is a base undertneath the thing, not to mention the murals.. I am not going to argue about that. Even though I have seen the reptilians, I don't have any proof, but my research and the fact that , that stupid stone is in the airport is enough to tell me that the masons aren't up to anything "good"...

Welcome Raven Windfree
Ok slow down, we are here to discuss remember

Yes I too have read about the D.I.A. and agree, there are definately some odd and strange decorative ideas happening there. You will find that people will respond much more warmly without words like stupid being used. Even though I am on the same "side" as you, the Freemasons are anything but stupid.

with that being said, where and how have you seen these reptilians and how do you tie them with the D.I.A.? I have a friend who was to travel through the airport during military transfer, so I asked her to observe for me. At first she was very skeptical, but afterwards agreed that she felt very creeped out and didn't understand the murals either.
Also, what are your ideas about the current advertising pertaining to Masons.
you will do well to include some links to information that will back up what you say



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 07:40 AM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
With that said could it simply be that the inner fraternity has true knowledge of the symbols, while telling the others a different story?


I would say that, according to Hall, you would be half-right, inasmuch as he wrote that the so-called inner fraternity (Pike, Mackey, etc.) had the true meaning of the symbols. However, it wouldn't be correct to say that they were telling others a different story since, during their lifetimes, every several months they published a new book telling everybody what the "true" interpretations of the symbols were.




[edit on 26-9-2006 by Masonic Light]



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:03 AM
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Perhaps even these fellas were only painfully aware of the situation, yet still unable to breach the "inner sanctum", and provided what they believed to be true meanings. It is like the scientist who teaches quantum physics, yet reveals only to himself that even he does not fully comprehend what he is teaching. Sort of the blind leading the blind, and throughout all he knows, he knows most that he is still... blind...perhaps



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by Fifth Horseman
Perhaps even these fellas were only painfully aware of the situation, yet still unable to breach the "inner sanctum", and provided what they believed to be true meanings. It is like the scientist who teaches quantum physics, yet reveals only to himself that even he does not fully comprehend what he is teaching. Sort of the blind leading the blind, and throughout all he knows, he knows most that he is still... blind...perhaps


That too is possible. I tend the believe that the symbolism is multi-faceted. Therefore, unlike Pike, I do not consider the interpretation of the symbols as given in the Blue Lodge to be erroneous. I believe the interpretations there are correct, but also believe they have deeper meanings, of which Pike was aware of many. In this sense, I agree with Hall, who compared the science of symbolism to an onion with many layers.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:57 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
I would be happy to listen to anything anyone has to say. This is an open forum.

Good stuff. Did you read my opinion on the previous page? What did you think?


All we keep getting from the Masons or Pro-Masons is dismissal.

Y'know, all I keep hearing from anti-masons is the accusation of dismissal. The opposite of agree is disagree. Post something credible and I won't dismiss it. Post blatent timewasting rubbish and it'll get dismissed.


How about some facts...some information.

It is inappropriate IMO for freemasons to start threads and volunteer information on this site. This is a conspiracy site, and because I contend that freemasony is (a) not a secret society and (b) not subject to any notably conspiracy, anything I initiate will immediately be off-topic.

I am here to deny ignorance, IOW deny the nonsense that some people spout about freemasonry. I am not here as a recruitment tool. There is no logic to much of the conspiracy theory put about here so consequently it's almost impossible to pre-empt what the next question will be.

You ask me questions, I'll give you answers. You have a conspiracy theory? I'll discuss it with you.


I have provided about 10 sources and yet, only 2 of them have been mentioned. One was completely dismissed as the words of a madman and the other dismissed for I don't even remember why at this point. What about the rest? APPAK says "it's all the same old same old".....

Well, some of us have been around here on ATS a while and, believe me, there is nothing new. The same old hypotheses keep on recycling, and I do wish people would use the search feature.

I'll review the thread and address some of your earlier issues.

OKAY....give us some pro-Mason information already instead of just telling me and others that our information is crap!
If your information is crap I'll tell you. I'll also tell you why. When I do, don't get up on your high horse shouting 'dismissal', please actually listen to what I'm saying and engage in a discussion rather than hit and run tactics, or disappear when the cat starts to climb out of the bag.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Im sorry but the following quote



I thought you were going to reply to Cino's post on the mummys.

begs the question be asked, what have Mummys to do with it? The Masonic
Order is a Fraternity , ergo they would be the Daddys.




The problem I see is that you cling so hard on to your truth, and get offended when someone questions it.

sounds just like Jack Chick, texe Marrs,Doc Marguilles Pat Robertson , Jerry Falwell,
and the rest of the Fundie regime dont it.



I have seen and researched something that do not cohere with what you are saying is the official mason story.


As far as I know there is no record of how the Masonic Order came into being. It has been established that it predates the official date of 1717. Ashmole was initiated in 1669 as I recall. There is some historical references to support the belief that at some point a "Master Mason" was a Local or regional executive of the lodge. Unfortunately over several years there was a move to spurriously associate the beginning of the order with several historical events that actual historical associations
may well have been buried.




yet still unable to breach the "inner sanctum", and provided what they believed to be true meanings.


Perhaps this anomoly is resultant from looking the wrong way? Perhaps all should be looking inward instead of outward.




Based on what you are saying, who are we to believe is a "real" Mason and who is not a real Mason?


We can substitute Xian, Muslim, fundie, primate, or any other classification for Mason in this question with the same flawed results.




StalkingWolf...I actually had respect for you until this.

I thank You for your respect. however If you knew me (as others do) that respect would be based on the Fact that I say what Is on my mind, straight out and honest)


We are having an argument/debate here

Not Exactly, You have lowered yourself to a point that you have become that which you hate. You use the same tactic as the fundies use, I am right and you are wrong.




and your tactic is to rag on where I live?


Perhaps you forget, I live in the same area. You are however presenting the impression here that most who visit our area have of the " Locals". What I said
was not to "rag on" you but in the hope that you would step back and look at the WHY. Obviously it was a forlorn hope.





Why don't you comment on what I have to say and not where I'm from.

because your comments have been argued so many times over the mere 2.5 years I
have been on this site that if the admins were to remove all the duplicate posts/threads containing the same arguements and "facts" the bandwidth usage would drop by at least 66%.


What does where I'm from have to do with the discussion?

see above.


Does the color of my skin also have something to do with it? Or my faith? All I can say is...pathetic!


Doubt it, never met you in person. Is your avatar a Pic of You? Is Mine an accurate
depicition of me? ( there are some that would say at times yes, others would say more like an angry Grizzly). But you would find that I use certain terms much differently than most.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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EB

This is quite a difficult thread to review, but I believe the full list of references you have used so far are listed below. Please advise if I have missed any.



"Rule By Secrecy," by Jim Marrs...connects the Trilateral Commission (also run by the Illuminati just like the FED is) with the Freemasons. Why would the Freemasons be involved with the Trilateral Commission? Why? Because they are both involved with the Illuminati.

"Crossfire," by Jim Marrs....links the FED and the secret organizations behind it to the JFK assassination.

"Final Warning: A history of The New World Order," by David Allen Rivera....links them all: The illuminati, the House of Rothschild, Freemasons, Skull & Bones, The FED and more.

"The Illuminati Formula Used to Create an Undetectable Total Mind Controlled Slave," by Fritz Springmeier & Cisco Wheeler.....this book doesn't talk about something going on in 1790 or earlier...it's talking about today!....makes one think about MKULTRA and people like Sirhan Sirhan...an obviously mind controlled assassin.

"UN is the Spawn of the Illuminati," a paper by Myron C. Fagan...


Thankyou for providing these sources, but sources of what? These books appear to be standard fare, taking a series of world events and historical facts and linking them together by a series of logical deductions. I suspect these books are long on assumption and short on research, but I shall reserve judgement. Perhaps you could post portions of the books for us to discuss?





The Illuminati and The Council on Foreign Relations

By Myron C. Fagan

Part 1

"The question of how and why the United Nations is the crux of the great conspiracy to destroy the sovereignty of the United States and the enslavement of the American people within a U.N. one-world dictatorship is a complete and unknown mystery to the vast majority of the American people. The reason for this unawareness of the frightening danger to our country and to the entire free world is simple. The masterminds behind this great conspiracy have absolute control of all of our mass communications media, especially television, the radio, the press, and Hollywood. We all know that our State Department, the Pentagon, and the White House have brazenly proclaimed that they have the right and the power to manage the news, to tell us not the truth but what they want us to believe. They have seized that power on orders from their masters of the great conspiracy and the objective is to brainwash the people into accepting the phony peace bait to transform the United States into an enslaved unit of the United Nations' one-world government.

source: johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com...

This is clearly opinion. The author is telling us what he believes, making assumptions along the way.




"Now then, this satanic plot was launched back in the 1760's when it first came into existence under the name "Illuminati." This Illuminati was organized by one Adam Weishaupt, born a Jew, who was converted to Catholicism and became a Catholic priest, Naturally, the Rothschilds financed that operation and every war since then, beginning with the French Revolution, has been promoted by the Illuminati operating under various names and guises. I say under various names and guises because after the Illuminati was exposed and became notorious, Weishaupt and his co-conspirators began to operate under various other names. In the United States, immediately after World War I, they set up what they called the "Council on Foreign Relations," commonly referred to as the CFR, and this CFR is actually the Illuminati in the United States and its hierarchy. The masterminds in control of the original Illuminati conspirators, but to conceal that fact, most of them changed their original family names to American sounding names. For example, the true name of the Dillons, Clarence and Douglas Dillon (one Secretary of the U.S. Treasury Department), is Laposky. I'll come back to all this later.


Again, this is really just an hypothesis. You will need to outline for me the links between the Rothchild family and the Bavarian Illuminati as I am not familiar with them. However the whole hypothesis is predicated on the following assumptions:

1. The Rothschilds have financed all wars since the 1760s
2. The Bavarian Illuminati was not disbanded but continued underground
3. The CFR was founded by the sucessors of Weishaupt

These assumptions must be accepted in order to agree with the hypothesis. However there are problems here:

1. Wars happen for a variety of reasons over time, mostly political. The is no evidence whatsoever that any individual family, or specific group of people, have deliberately instigated these wars or funded them. There is a huge mountain of historical evidence, however, to explain how these wars started, were fought, and won. This seems like the worst kind of historical revisionism

2. This cannot be proven one way or the other, but without any real evidence to the contrary, the Bavarian Illuminati must be assumed to have acceded to Elector Palatines ban on secret societies in 1784. However personally I believe the principles of the Bavarian Illuminati have been disseminated far and wide.

3. Whatever you might think of private organizations exerting influence on government policy, it's hard to see a link between the CFR and the Bavarian Illuminati. What thought processes have led one to this conclusion?

Its all supposition. Guesswork. Join the dots. Read a good summary of the Illuminati at www.masonicinfo.com...



"There is a similar establishment of the Illuminati in England operating under the name of the "British Institute of International Affairs." (The Royal Institute of International Affairs, actually) There are similar secret Illuminati organizations in France, Germany, and other nations operating under different names and all these organizations, including the CFR, continuously set up numerous subsidiary or front organizations that are infiltrated into every phase of the various nations' affairs.But at all times, the operations of these organizations were and are masterminded and controlled by the Internationalist Bankers, who in turn were and are controlled by the Rothschilds.

Supposition upon supposition. The foolish man builds his house upon the sand. There are few assumptions made early on, and a whole panoply of theories built on top. Its easy to make statements (such as the one I have highlighted in bold) but just saying it don't make it so.


One of the prime agents in this control is through the International BAR Association and it's splinter groups such as the America BAR Association. It is important to note that there are BAR Associations in nearly every nation world wide now, pushing the United Nations.)

What possible connection would the national BAR associations have to any of this?

And finally, what has any of this got to do with freemasonry? It's all based on the fact that Weishaupt was also a freemason - correct?



"Who are the Illuminati," by Lindsay Porter.....



What links an 18th-century president of Yale, an inter-war aristocratic Nazi sympathizer, a McCarthy-era anticommunist zealot and the former editor of Playboy? How are the origins of the French Revolution, the murder of the Romanovs, the design of the dollar bill and alien abductions connected?
The answer lies with one of the world's most mysterious, feared and arguably, maligned secret societies - the Illuminati. References to the Illuminati span centuries, millennia even, yet the group actually existed for little over a decade. So why are they said to be behind the world's greatest conspiracies?

For nearly 250 years references to the Illuminati and their alleged influence on major world world events have continued to resurface.

source: www.whsmith.co.uk...

This is just a series of questions. What is this author saying and what arguments is she proposing to back up these assertions?


"Unholy Alliances: The Secret Plan and The Secret People who are working to destroy America," by Dr. James W. Wardner....



In my previous newsletter, TTT #23, entitled "The Planned Destruction of America", (Part I), dated April 4, 2003, I listed a number of groups that were working to DESTROY America’s national sovereignty. These groups included: the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission, the Bilderbergers, large multinational corporations, the establishment-CONTROLLED mainstream media, major financial institutions, the United Nations, large tax-exempt foundations, intelligence services, "extremist groups", secret societies, the National Education Association, the U.S. Department of Education, the military-industrial complex, etc.

source: www.tacklingthetoughtopics.net...


This last source has a lot of information from a very educated gentleman on the subject....Dr. James W. Wardner....call the groups what you want: The FED, Trilateral Commission, Bildebergers, Council on Foreign Relations, etc. etc. etc.....they ARE the Illuminati!!


Sorry, never heard of him. Why is he credible?

... continued...



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 01:36 PM
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... continued...


"Solomon's Power Brokers: The Secrets of Freemasonry, The Church and The Illuminati" by Christopher Knight and Alan Butler

"The Illuminati and Their Plans for The Future," by Adrian Krieg

"Some Things You Need To Know Before The World Ends (A Final Evening with The Illuminati)," by Levi Lee and Larry Larson

"Circle of Intrigue: The Hidden Inner Circle of The Global Illuminati Conspiracy," by Texe Marrs

"Empower The People: Overthrow The Conspiracy That is Stealing Your Money and Freedom," by Tony Brown

Yes, but what about them? What point are you supporting by simply listing a number of books?

And, again, what has any of this got to do with freemasonry?

Please give me (if you can), in one sentence, why freemasonry is involved with all this conspiracy theory. So far I see no meat on any of these bones.



Pretty simple....Masons are a large worldwide fraternal organization. Infiltrating such a large group and gaining control over it would just get the Illuminati one step closer to their common goal....complete control over the whole planet.

So would a million and one other moves. Except that the freemasons would be the worst possible vessel for them to choose, as:

1. Although global we are comprised of many independent bodies. There is no global leadership of freemasonry
2. It's mission to improve people internally through the tenets of Brotherly Love, Relief and Truth are not exactly synonymous with the alleged intent of the NWO
3. Freemasonry does not meet any reasonable definition of 'secret society


Originally posted by Excitable_Boy

" Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity -- an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect ... it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as 'of majestic dignity, grandeur'] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']." [Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 433]


source: Lectures on Ancient Philosophy by Manly Hall

The above quote pretty much says it all. The FreeMasons are a fraternity within a fraternity. On the outside they pretend to be a wonderful organization out to do great things for mankind. On the inside, they are Illuminati through and through. One of the many groups working its way toward the NWO! The Masons are a cult and the leaders of the cult are the Illuminati. The Masons are one of many organizations that the Illuminati have in their pocket.

No, it doesn't mean that at all. Do your homework. This has been covered a gazillion times.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 04:19 PM
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Yes, but what about them? What point are you supporting by simply listing a number of books?

And, again, what has any of this got to do with freemasonry?



TrinityMan....I provided the list of books/sources for Nygdan. He asked me for proof that the Illuminati still existed. That's what I did. You will have to go back many pages to see where he asked for sources from me to prove what I was saying about the Illuminati being alive and well...actually, more powerful than ever. He did not ask for ANY information with regards to FreeMasons at that time. It just so happens that most information on the Illuminati ends up proving involvement of some kind or other with FreeMasonry.

I will get to the rest of your long posts shortly.....just got in from work and need to take care of a few things first. I will be back shortly......



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 04:32 PM
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Why are The Freemasons Recruiting on radio and TV?


Is there a decline in the membership of Free Masonic Lodges? If so, does anyone have any idea why?



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
TrinityMan....I provided the list of books/sources for Nygdan. He asked me for proof that the Illuminati still existed. That's what I did. You will have to go back many pages to see where he asked for sources from me to prove what I was saying about the Illuminati being alive and well...actually, more powerful than ever. He did not ask for ANY information with regards to FreeMasons at that time. It just so happens that most information on the Illuminati ends up proving involvement of some kind or other with FreeMasonry.

I will get to the rest of your long posts shortly.....just got in from work and need to take care of a few things first. I will be back shortly......

Like I said... its a very convoluted thread


It might be better for you to start a new thread when you come back



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:25 PM
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Let's start with Stalking Wolf:



quote: We are having an argument/debate here

answer: from StalkingWolf
Not Exactly, You have lowered yourself to a point that you have become that which you hate. You use the same tactic as the fundies use, I am right and you are wrong.


No. Haven't lowered myself a bit. Just looking for the pro-Masons to get in on the discussion. Instead you all just say everything I say (and others like-minded) is wrong...period. You give no reason why. We're just wrong. So YOU are doing what you say I am doing. I have a belief and I have provided sources for my belief. All your side has done is say "No....your sources are bad.....same old same old......it's been done over and over again on this site.......etc...."

I would LOVE some evidence that the Masons are NOT involved with the Illuminati and the plans for a NWO. In eleven pages I have received nothing. Why? because you all think you are right and the rest of us are wrong. So...are you saying YOU are using the same tactic as the fundies? Because I sure am not....



quote: and your tactic is to rag on where I live?

answer: from StalkingWolf
Perhaps you forget, I live in the same area. You are however presenting the impression here that most who visit our area have of the " Locals". What I said
was not to "rag on" you but in the hope that you would step back and look at the WHY. Obviously it was a forlorn hope.



I have to say here I am totally lost. It's okay for you to rag because you are from the same area? Have of the locals? What does that mean?




quote: Why don't you comment on what I have to say and not where I'm from.

answer: from StalkingWolf
because your comments have been argued so many times over the mere 2.5 years I have been on this site that if the admins were to remove all the duplicate posts/threads containing the same arguements and "facts" the bandwidth usage would drop by at least 66%.


Oh...well that makes sense. Of course this would be a legitimate reason to rag on someone then.



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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TrinityMan....I'm going to pass on most of your posts. You are correct. This thread is about the Freemasons...not the Illuminati. I will say one final thing about the Illuminati and then move on. The Illuminati are quite alive and quite well and quite a bit more powerful than ever. They include the FED and all its stockholders (private stock) which include families such as the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans, Warburgs, and other international banking families; TC, CFR, Bildebergers and so on. BTW, The Illuminati also control the Vatican. Not too shabby controlling the entire Catholic Church!

Many believe that the FreeMasons are also part of this group. I think perhaps they are just a pawn of the Illuminati....just as the Skull & Bones are.....I don't think the members of the FreeMasons are capable of the kind of the total sociopathic behavior necessary to be true Illuminati. But, I think they are capable of being in the pocket of the Illuminati without even knowing it (at least probably 99.9% of the members without knowing it). There is corruption within the FreeMasons as with any organization. The corrupt members are the ones who need to be looked at. What are their true agendas...etc.

I will give you and any other Masons on here the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of you are kind people just out to do good things. I am quite concerned, however, with an organization that will sit back and read tons of material that points to them being involved with the Illuminati and pass it all off as bunk without offering a reason. All I've heard is that I am wrong. Well...why am I wrong? Why is there so much information that points to a link between the Illuminati and the FreeMasons?

No one is saying the Elks are involved with the Illuminati...or the Moose lodges, or the Eagles, or the Rotary Clubs, or the Knights of Columbus (actually I think some may be saying the K of C are involved, but I have no info on that), or the American Legion, etc.....etc.....etc.....No one is pointing the finger at any large fraternal organization except the FreeMasons. Why is that? There must be a reason. What is the reason?

The reason is most likely that there is some truth to it......as much as all the FreeMasons on here don't want to hear that!!



posted on Sep, 26 2006 @ 08:53 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Illuminati are quite alive and quite well and quite a bit more powerful than ever.


EB,

How do you KNOW this? What proof do you have? You made the statement as fact...back it up. I contend you're wrong. Prove they DO exist. Can you?



They include the FED and all its stockholders (private stock) which include families such as the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans, Warburgs, and other international banking families; TC, CFR, Bildebergers and so on.


How do you KNOW this? PROVE it. Provide some evidence besides "I say so" to back it up. No one else can. How can you? What credible evidence do you have?



BTW, The Illuminati also control the Vatican.


Says who? How do you KNOW this? What DOCUMENTED PROOF do you have besides the fact that you SAY so? Why should anyone believe it without evidence? Why do YOU believe it without evidence?



Not too shabby controlling the entire Catholic Church!


I'm a MEMBER of the Catholic Church and they don't control me so they must not control the "entire" Catholic Church, huh? Again, what evidence do you have? Put up! Please.



Many believe that the FreeMasons are also part of this group.


True. And many believe that Bill & Hillary Clinton are shape-shifting aliens. As much as I would LOVE to believe this, I'm far too educated to subscribe to it.



I think perhaps they are just a pawn of the Illuminati....just as the Skull & Bones are.....


It's a free world and you can think what you wish. Doesn't mean what you THINK is true. (see above where you haven't given any evidence for the things you've stated as absolute fact)



I don't think the members of the FreeMasons are capable of the kind of the total sociopathic behavior necessary to be true Illuminati.


What was so bad about the Bavarian Illumaniti? What did they do that was so evil? it must have been bad, but what was it? do you have a clue?



But, I think they are capable of being in the pocket of the Illuminati without even knowing it (at least probably 99.9% of the members without knowing it).


Are you saying Masons are morons? We're stupid? We're uninformed? I have a Masters Degree. I'm pretty damned smart and am in the pocket of NO ONE. Particularly not a group that hasn't existed since the 1700's (except in the minds of some conspiracy theorists)



There is corruption within the FreeMasons as with any organization. The corrupt members are the ones who need to be looked at. What are their true agendas...etc.


THAT, I'll agree with! We are, after all, humans. There is corruption EVERYWHERE. Even on ATS where some members have their own agenda of spreading untruths and attempting to make others believe they have great knowledge when they have no factual evidence to back any of their claims up.


I will give you and any other Masons on here the benefit of the doubt and assume that most of you are kind people just out to do good things.


Thank you for that condescending statement. My cup runneth under.



I am quite concerned, however, with an organization that will sit back and read tons of material that points to them being involved with the Illuminati and pass it all off as bunk without offering a reason.


What about an organization that is smart enough to recognize LIES when it sees it and says "Oh well, there they go, making statements about something they don't know anything about, again." It get old after a couple of hundred years.

(Yeah, I know. It's been repeated again and again and a lie told often enough is the truth, huh? ) [sigh]



All I've heard is that I am wrong. Well...why am I wrong?


Because you quote things that are stated as fact but have no substance. You quote sources as reliable who have NEVER darkened the door of a Masonic Lodge. You rely on non-Masons and worse yet Anti-Masons as acceptable sources of information and do not rely on REAL, ACTIVE, PARTICIPATING Masons who KNOW the truth first-hand. Probably because for some reason human nature wants to believe the bad about others (that's why gossip is so popular) and won't see the real light by observing how Masons participate in the community and help the world at large.


Why is there so much information that points to a link between the Illuminati and the FreeMasons?


There is a LOT of "information" about many things. How much of it is credible? What reliable sources do you have? If its on a web-site or a book it suffers from the same things that much "information" does. As a piece of paper or a web-page, it will sit there and let you write down ANYTHING YOU WANT on it. Look around at REAL Masons, THEN draw your conclusions. If someone says it's Red, look twice...it might be Green. Think for yourself EB, don't take what some third party says to be factual, just because it's evil-sounding and makes a good story. there's certainly no originality in THAT. Be creative. Think for yourself unlike most of the lowing herd.



No one is saying the Elks are involved with the Illuminati...or the Moose lodges, or the Eagles, or the Rotary Clubs, or the Knights of Columbus (actually I think some may be saying the K of C are involved, but I have no info on that), or the American Legion, etc.....etc.....etc.....No one is pointing the finger at any large fraternal organization except the FreeMasons. Why is that? There must be a reason. What is the reason?


We were here first. So we MUST be evil to have existed this long. I mean, afterall, no GOOD organization can be around this long and not be up to no good, right? [shrug]



The reason is most likely that there is some truth to it......as much as all the FreeMasons on here don't want to hear that!!


Yep. Someone has been saying it over and over, so it must be true. Jury's in. Hang the poor Freemasons! They're guilty because lots of folks who've NEVER BEEN FREEMASONS SAY SO.

How do you argue with logic like that?

The inquisition has nothing on free-thinkers like you. [sigh]



posted on Sep, 27 2006 @ 04:17 AM
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how did this thread turn from freemasons recruiting on public broadcasting to the connection of masons and the illuminati?



first off, the freemason numbers are decreasing more and more day by day. we have proof of this, they cant reproduce amen! they have to go out and find people day by day. hello?! why do you think theyre starting to use television to recuit more freemasons?! wasnt this a secret fraternity?


second, the illumanti is in no way infiltrating the vatican? this supports the theory that masons are also infiltrating the vatican. anyway, lets move on. i mentioned this in another thread how the vatican is so covered in paganistic sculptures. masons had to have built the vatican look at all the pretty elements and neo-pagan statues they have? hmmmmmmmmmmm. you must be covering yourself in a blanket of s**** to ignore the clues.



posted on Sep, 27 2006 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by Cinosamitna

Is there a decline in the membership of Free Masonic Lodges? If so, does anyone have any idea why?


Over the past 30 years, there has been a decline in membership in all civic and fraternal societies. Some of them, like Odd Fellows and Elk, are practically non-existent in many areas. Masonry has also suffered a decline, but not as harshly as most of the others.

For the most part, our membership decline was due to many members losing interest in the fraternity, and being erased from the rolls for non-payment of dues. These tended to be older members who never attended. Thankfully, and interestingly, the fraternity has begun to attract large numbers of younger men, most of whom are staying active after receiving their degrees. My Lodge has raised 11 new Masons so far this year, none of them older than 36, with the youngest being 22.

I think the current Renaissance that the fraternity is experiencing is due in large part to its exposure in popular culture, such as movies like National Treasure, all the shows on the History Channel, and websites like this one. They bring out an interest, and interest in Freemasonry leads to membership in it.



posted on Sep, 27 2006 @ 07:32 AM
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quote: Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
The Illuminati are quite alive and quite well and quite a bit more powerful than ever.


EB,

How do you KNOW this? What proof do you have? You made the statement as fact...back it up. I contend you're wrong. Prove they DO exist. Can you?


I have already provided evidence....lots of it in this thread and in others. I'm done with the discussion of the Illuminati as I stated earlier. You want to distract from the real discussion here which is the Masons. You want to continue the discussion of the Illuminati...open another thread and let's have at it.

Let's discuss the Masons.....

The original discussion was supposed to be about why the Masons are advertising for members on TV and radio. Why don't we get back to that? Is it the contraversy that is driving the membership down? Do the plans for the NWO require the Masons to have more members? What's going on with the Masons recruiting people??

[edit on 27-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]




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