Hugo Chavez speaking at the UN Against American Imperialism and Bush the Devil

Originally posted by stanstheman


The people of Iraq are happy to be free, and I don't think any of them expect an easy transition to a democracy. If countries like Venezuela and Iran were so confident in their type of government and it's appeal to it's people then they would not be threatened at all by what's going on in Iraq.

Um, have you seen the state that Iraq is in? They are slipping more and more toward civil war - if not already. The removal of Sadam was a good thing as he was an ass, however the state the country is in is FAR worse than it was when we started. And we have a HELL of a lot more work to do before it can be considered "free". That statement you made would make me laugh if it wasn't so pathetically sad and far from the truth.

Originally posted by stanstheman
The truth is that they are shaking in their boots because they know that theocracies, dictatorships, socialism, and communism are all doomed to failure and the only way to maintain their shaky hold on power is to yell louder than the other guy, threaten, and scare people.

You do realize that Chavez was elected, right? Can you please provide links to support your claims of him "thretening and scaring people to maintain power"??

His comments may have been out of line today, but it doesn't make them any less true.

I suppose this is only to be expected.

Didn't Rumsfeld (with a straight face) try and label Chavez a 'Hitler' recently?

The bit that ought to be of concern to any reasonably balanced American is that there were so many approving nods and such obvious tacit agreement/support for his little digs.

I also found reports of the apparant 'shock' many US news casts were expressing rather funny, the strange reverence some continue to hold for Bush is rather quaint and unusual
(and that's not a bash, I'm just surprised people feel like that about any politician).

Here's a link to the UK's Channel 4 news cast where this was all commented upon -Ch4 link



[edit on 20-9-2006 by sminkeypinkey]

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
When we have people like Bolton representing us , is it a wonder why our foreign policy is failing? We are losing allies faster then any time in history. Its people like this who are bringing down the longstanding good reputation of this great country
and not the political leaders outside of it.
Pie

EXACTLY!!! I dont mind people speaking their mind, but dont be a friggin hypocrite!!! How the hell can the world take us seriously when all we say is "do as we say, not as we do"!!!!!

It is such a double standard it is sick!

Why is this thread tagged as follows: "tagged with: hugo chavez pshyco "

Originally posted by spinstopshere
What is worse he is in america ,get out of america if you are going to bash it. This is one of the few people I want dead. I can't believe he has the balls to say such things in America. I wish Bush would detain him for making terrorist threats.

Hugo makes hollow threats against the US = 0

Bush actually carrys out terror attacks on 9/11 killing 2819 odd people and now killing EVEN MORE PEOPLE due to the asbestos in the dust = 100000000

HOW BLIND CAN YOU BE

I can only hope you dont have childen to brainwash them..

If you think about it, the lower-class americans may not understand or comprehend a lot of what is said by the Middle East Leaders. So the US Shadow Government puts together a speech that these people CAN understand. Something down and dirty that puts the "rest of" the U.S. population behind their government to "open a can of whoop-ass"... giving the U.S. even more probable cause to invade the middle eastern countries.

1:Invest)Yeah thats very true the "everyday joe" comes in from work turns on the news whilst eating his dinner(optional ) to find some new "threat" of rogue state, lunatic Dictator or in recent cases an uncompromising top oil distributor who is unwilling to sell to the US, the "joe" will then say to him/herself "huh, well that guys crazy he shouldnt be there." news finishes thinks nothing of it couldnt care less.

2: Profit)next day he does the same routine and wa-da-ya-no,"hey, its that crazy guy again and now hes saying nasty things about our President. how dare he." later on hes/shes to busy watching LOST/FRIENDS to care.

3: Sell/Sold)The next day same thing happens again,"Christ! not him again!, yeah damn right we should invade your evil country!" the country is invaded. switches on favourite sitcom, sits back with his/her popcorn and forgets everything he/she saw. A big long war erupts scores of deaths reaching the hundreds of thousands mostly to the native people.




America Wins again!


Whats that saying the "House" always wins? Oh sorry the "White-House"



[edit on 20-9-2006 by marcopolo]

Originally posted by worldwatcher
wait stop!! so you're saying that Chavez isn't a bigger threat to the US than Saddam? I disagree, Chavez is wielding power in the Americas which directly threatens the US.

I thought I'd reply to this because it's a slightly less rabid and nonsensical post than most of the frothing paranoid rubbish in this thread. I mean please, the guy just stood up and said what's on most of the world's mind.

So how is he a threat to the US? Has he stopped selling the US oil? (The US has had many years to wean itself off its crippling oil dependency, but has only built bigger gas-guzzlers and waged a couple of wars (with a third in the offing) to maintain its supply. Do you delude yourself that he's going to go up through central America and Mexico and march on Washington?

No, his biggest threat would be to want to trade oil in a harder currency than the USD, like, for example, the euro. Oh, wait, that's why the US tried to depose him (a democratically elected president) in 2002. And you actually know that the US tried this (unless you think the coup plotters acted on their own, which is not supported by the evidence) because you post:

The failed attempt to depose him, has made him bitter, cynical and overtly paranoid against the US, causing him to take the actions that he does, such as stockpiling weapons and building his defences. The man's paranoia is justified, but it is also a dangerous threat to the government of this country.

Er... OVERTLY paranoid? (I think you may mean overly, in fact.) But you yourself say his paranoia is justified. It is a fact that the US has tried to depose him in the past, and I doubt very much that their attempts ceased after the dismal failure of 2002. He certainly seems to think there have been other attempts, and it would not surprise me.

As you yourself say, his paranoia is justified.

And he has a far better grasp of the history of US foreign policy in South America than most of the posters here. It is inevitable that merely stating the history of US intervention in the region means I will be accused of senseless US-bashing, but the historical record demonstrates very clearly that for the best part of a century, US influence in the region has been used to maintain the economic dominance and welfare of its corporations. US corporations own the land, they extract the resources, they often own the infrastructure... and the golden rule is that they can suck all the profit out of any of these countries, use them for cheap labour and cheap resources... and seldom, if ever, pay any taxes to support the countries they are ripping off.

When a government is elected that wants to even the playing field, they are subverted, and very often death squads and torturers trained in the School of the Americas are put in place to ensure the locals can't get too uppity. That's the pattern, and it is consistently applied.

This is the history Chavez understands too well, and it's why he is rightly more than cautious of the US.

Find out what September 11 means to the Chilean people and you might begin to understand. (Hint: that's September 11 1973.) And I'm sorry if my tone seems a little aggressive, but the appalling ignorance of Americans of their own history in the region - and their unwillingness to recognise the extent of the damage they've done to virtually every country south of the Rio Grande - is something that I personally find quite irritating.

Now that's what I call a good post.
.

Well,

After reading all of the comments on this thread, and reading the quoted material presented, I whole heartdly disagreed with Mr. Chavez`s comments. Now, after reviewing his entire speech - at this site Article, I have to say I'm truly impressed. Many of you will not agree with me on this, but I think this man maybe more patriotic then our very own president.

He quotes things such as -

They say they want to impose a democratic model. But that's their democratic model. It's the false democracy of elites, and, I would say, a very original democracy that's imposed by weapons and bombs and firing weapons.

and -

The president of the United States, yesterday, said to us, right here, in this room, and I'm quoting, "Anywhere you look, you hear extremists telling you can escape from poverty and recover your dignity through violence, terror and martyrdom."

Wherever he looks, he sees extremists. And you, my brother -- he looks at your color, and he says, oh, there's an extremist. Evo Morales, the worthy president of Bolivia, looks like an extremist to him.

The imperialists see extremists everywhere. It's not that we are extremists. It's that the world is waking up. It's waking up all over. And people are standing up.

Which, IMHO are almost wholeheartdly true. Are we not extreemists? Have we, as a country not turned to our very own form of extreemism ? I don't know about you, but Benjamin Franklin quoted

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Source

Are our liberties not being stripped away little by little in the last decade? Are we not very near the edge of extreemist behavior ? I, IMHO think we are.
I think Mr. Chavez speaks to you and me, he is speaking to us. He is trying to say to us that we have a corrupt government, who DOES NOT have our best interests in mind.

He goes on to say -

The president then -- and this he said himself, he said: "I have come to speak directly to the populations in the Middle East, to tell them that my country wants peace." That's true. If we walk in the streets of the Bronx, if we walk around New York, Washington, San Diego, in any city, San Antonio, San Francisco, and we ask individuals, the citizens of the United States, what does this country want? Does it want peace? They'll say yes. But the government doesn't want peace.

I ask you - what have we done to promote peace through the world? We Veto'd the UN Resolution to stop Israel from bombing Lebanon (to root out Hezbollah and other *Extreemists*) and how many civilians have perished because of that?

Mr. Chavez even calls the United States imperialists. The definition of imperialist from dictionary.com is

The policy of extending a nation's authority by territorial acquisition or by the establishment of economic and political hegemony over other nations.

Have we not done JUST THIS in Iraq? Personally, Saddam needed to be removed. But the actions in Iraq should have reflected just that, and not "installing" an entire new form of government. We are being Imperialists. Sadly, this is what George W. Bush has led us too.

Thank you, Mr. Chavez for having the guts to speak your mind. America needs to wake up and realize that we are NOT rulers of the world, and the world does not bow to American Foriegn Policy.

I love this country proudly, even if our policy and leadership is corrupt.

Does Chavez have invade America to be a threat to the US? NO not all. He just has to keep saying what he is saying and positioning himself with other leaders like he is doing to be a threat.

When I say Chavez is a threat to the US, he is. He represents, voices and expresses exactly what the US government doesn't want to see presented in the world front, he is a threat, just like how Castro is a threat, just like how Ahminajad and Kim Jong Il are threats. These people are threats to America because they are rocking the boat and not conforming. As a personal citizen, I don't see Chavez as a personal threat, but from the standpoint of a nation, Chavez is a threat.

People don't make Chavez into something he isn't, he is a definitely a mixed bag of nuts. The man is intelligent and has many good qualities, but he doesn't always have the so called best interest in mind for his people. The quality of life in Venezuela is no way comparable to many countries in the Western world, Chavez faces the same internal problems that other countries deal with, this man is no saint.

i have some other threads on Chavez, i'll have to go dig up. Not everything you hear and see is what it is. mixed bag of nuts.

Originally posted by crgintx
Chavez is not making any friends with most of his SA neighbors especially Brazil. He's been sponsoring a communist-style rebellion in the NW of the country. He's a typical SA neo-socialist who blames hundreds of years of class driven social ills on anyone but themselves. He fancies himself as the new 'Castro'. Standing up to the Great Gringo Devil, the US president, whoever that might be. As soon as his nations oil production runs out, we'll see him flee to some country with no extradition treaty with a large portion of his nation's treasury in a Swiss or Bahamian bank account.

Do you really think so?? Venezuela, Argentina and Brazil are one of the engines behind the forming of an entity that will be similar to the IMF. So I think that Chavez is making friends in South America. Besides... Most of South and Central America have suffered under the same corruption and power of big (American and European) corporations for most of the 20th century any way, so people like Chavez is a logical result of that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yea Chavez!

And yea rich23. GREAT post.

You have voted rich23 for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.

btw ww - You're right, Chavez isn't perfect. But I just LOVE to see little guys with sling shots take on giant bullies.

Originally posted by soficrow
btw ww - You're right, Chavez isn't perfect. But I just LOVE to see little guys with sling shots take on giant bullies.

You know Bush is no a person that takes personal attacks very kindly he does get mad and puff like an angry wolf.

I wonder what will be his revenge.

Originally posted by soficrow

btw ww - You're right, Chavez isn't perfect. But I just LOVE to see little guys with sling shots take on giant bullies.

yeah.......

the US is such a big meanie! we only give billions in Aid and support that joke called the UN.

Originally posted by marg6043

You know Bush is no a person that takes personal attacks very kindly he does get mad and puff like an angry wolf.

I wonder what will be his revenge.

True. But almost everyone's ripping Bush at the UN this round. Did you see this one?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad accused the U.S. and Britain of committing acts of 'aggression, occupation and violation of international law.' ..."The abuse of the Security Council, as an instrument of threat and coercion, is indeed a source of grave concern," said Ahmadinejad. ..."It must be acknowledged that as long as the council's unable to act on behalf of the entire international community in a transparent, just and democratic manner, it will neither be legitimate or effective," ...

Iran's president lashed out at the UN for inaction and delay when the Israeli military abducted Palestinian government officials and launched air strikes that ended up killing Lebanese civilians and UN observers. ..."When the power behind the atrocities is itself a permanent member of the Security Council, how then can the council fulfill its responsibilities?" he said.

On the subject of Iran's nuclear activities, Ahmadinejad said they were "transparent, peaceful and under the watchful eye" of United Nations inspectors. He questioned why his country was being denied its own nuclear program when others have not.

UN being abused by West

...IMO, Bush will want to go after his weakest opponent in a dark alley. But his handlers will keep him focused on Iran.

If Chavez looks vulnerable, Bush'll probably sic the CIA on him behind closed doors, and set up one of those black ops assassinations. I hope it fails. The world needs more guys like Chavez right now.

I think Chavez has survived more than one of those OPs he is probably ready for another one, and he probably knows that it will be coming his way for speaking out to loud.

Iran on the other hands is telling the truth but we already know that such an Axis of evil can not be taken seriously by anybody that wants US business.

So true marg. You do have a nice way with words.

BTW - I just saw Syriana. Missed it before. Well done and interesting - check it out if you haven't yet.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
After all the things that have happend to South American countries in the 20th century in the name of big business and/or dictatorships I can hardly be surprised at Chavez's comments.

And by the way, spinstopshere... Chavez has lived all his life in the continent of America...

Do you even know what happened to Venezuela after Chavez took office?...

You think things are better over there?...

I keep in contact with one of my uncles, a Cuban doctor who was ordered to go to Venezuela, and he has been able to tell me that a lot of Venezuelans don't like Cubans, even if they are doctors, because they think Cubans are taking over Venezuela. In our last conversation, when i asked him how things were over there, i heard a click and we were disconnected, if you think that "listening in the U.S. by the government is bad" you should see how it is in Venezuela, and if you would read many of the speeches of Chavez, in Venezuelan sites which are pro-Chavez, you will see the bs that he spouts, claiming that only by getting rid of Capitalism around the world would the environment be saved and other bs propaganda... i have posted some of those speeches in these forums in the past.

Originally posted by TheBandit795

Originally posted by crgintx
Chavez i

Most of South and Central America have suffered under the same corruption and power of big (American and European) corporations for most of the 20th century any way, so people like Chavez is a logical result of that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

South and Central Americans suffered at the hands of their own first and foremost. They blame Americans and Euro's for corrupting them? They were enslaving and slaughtering each other with great abandon long before the Spanish and other European powers showed up. Even today the class/caste system flourishes in those countries. Why did the US become an economic superpower and the other resource rich American countries did not? They talk about democracy and reform in those countries but as long as they hang on to their social class system in the Latin American countries, true reform will never happen.

Did someone mention how the CIA backed and perhaps fomented the attempted Venezualan coup against Chavez a few years ago? Well, those were the allegations & the Agency's track record would support the thesis.

What surprises me is how Chavez labels Bush as 'the Devil' whereas he surely is smart enough to understand Bush is one head of a many-headed hydra. Bush maybe be in the driver's seat but he is not the driving force behind the USA's push towards imperialism. Hitler was a grand orator but the architects of the Nazi party were above him. Without Bush, USA's ruling class would find another 'Devil' to lead it further onto the rocks. I mean, there hasn't been a real President in decades. Makes me wonder.

Can someone find the Spanish text of his speech and clarify if he called Bush THE Devil or A devil. 2 very different meanings, although I suppose the sulphur comment leaves little doubt over interpretations.