Whats wrong with Israelis working with the Kurds? First, its two religions that are normally at each other's throats, working together. Secondly, the Kurds are trying to stay out of the secular violence that the rest of iraq has descended into, and thirdly, if not the Israelis, who else? When/if iraq really falls apart, the Turks and Iranians are going to make moves on the Kurds, they have to be prepared.

Using a airport in Northern Iraq to refuel warplanes from Israel, to go onto Iran in a bombing or Spec Ops drop?

That'd have to figure into it, sure. Whats wrong with the Israelis taking sensible steps?

Originally posted by Nygdan
Whats wrong with Israelis working with the Kurds? First, its two religions that are normally at each other's throats, working together. Secondly, the Kurds are trying to stay out of the secular violence that the rest of iraq has descended into, and thirdly, if not the Israelis, who else? When/if iraq really falls apart, the Turks and Iranians are going to make moves on the Kurds, they have to be prepared.

Using a airport in Northern Iraq to refuel warplanes from Israel, to go onto Iran in a bombing or Spec Ops drop?

That'd have to figure into it, sure. Whats wrong with the Israelis taking sensible steps?

Nygdan know that is one strange point of view. 911 was planned and run by the Israelis to gain control over the Iraq terrority. Land being bought right know is through kurdish jews and terror training is being provided by jewish mossad officers to destablize turkey. Since Iraq is destabilized for the dominos to fall, lebanon, Iran,Syria, Egypt, must be removed for the operation "Clear Break" to workout. America was the first to fall, 911 made sure of that, our troops and weapons are now underthe control of the NWO and leaders of the Jewish mossad.

A. Iraq is really no more.
B. Iran is heading for the same movie theather.
C. Shelling and movement of major war powers through the ME and its developed networks.
D. Special forces move into Iran and team up with mossad agents.
E. Ground forces setup laser directional beams for laser guided bombs.
F. A new Israel is about to be born!

If this is true then it is the same people who have been contacting me to help teach their instructors. The form they are using is called KAPAP, and they the Isreali's, contact me almost every other two weeks with constant requests and dates along with international locations of the training.

If they are teaching other nations, then it might be a sign of global mobilization. Other nations are gearing up for combat, and that might be a sure sign of things to come.

This is a great find. The pieces will come together shortly. I just find it so funny that the country that is training hit squads in other countries as well as its own can actually sit there and point fingers at Syria for giving arms to Hizbollah to protect Lebanon.

One of the founders of Interop, and its Chairman until 2003, was Danny Yatom, a former Head of Mossad - the Israeli foreign intelligence service and now an MP.

He told Newsnight today: "I was not aware of what was done in 2004 and 2005 because I cut all contacts with the company when I entered the Israeli parliament in 2003."

Sure he didn't know. They fed us all that bad intel on Iraq so they could get in and start moving into the oil fields in Mosul. These kurds will be there to protect their investments. After all, not a drop of their blood was spilled in taking Iraq and I'm sure they want to keep it that way.

"By Way Of Deception Thou Shalt Do War"

a nice big `what if`


bombing of turkish military forces


the kurds are found to be behind any bombing of turkish forces (as i said a what if)


what will the usa do , when tukey calls to mobilise nato against this threat?

[edit on 21/9/06 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by Nygdan
Whats wrong with Israelis working with the Kurds? First, its two religions that are normally at each other's throats, working together.

This is not Israelis and Kurds walking around hand in hand and holding flowers, Nygdan.

This is an ethnic group, that evidence suggests, is being trained in firearms tactics and operations, possibly to use in Iran.

Such tactics will also be used by the Kurds to continue their campaign in Turkey and Syria as well, parts of which they see as Kurdistan, and later possibly against Iraqis themselves, to establish a permanent Kurdish State in Northern Iraq, and to preserve those oil fields.

A partnership of war, in a country ravaged by war.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Secondly, the Kurds are trying to stay out of the secular violence that the rest of iraq has descended into, and thirdly, if not the Israelis, who else? When/if iraq really falls apart, the Turks and Iranians are going to make moves on the Kurds, they have to be prepared.

The Kurds are not going to stay out of it by working with the Israelis whose treatment of Palestinians is the cause of much resentment, protest and anger to Muslims in the region.

For the Kurds, this spells long-term disaster. Long-held suspicions by Muslim countries that the Kurds have been working with the Israelis appear to have been proven right.

The Kurds will appear to be the Israeli fifth columnists of Iraq and the region, the Turks and the Iranians may move in on the Kurds, but a possibility remains so will the Iraqis.

Northern Iraq could see more bombings now by the Sunni extremists, seeing recent Israeli presence and helping the Kurdish fighters.

It could be a wider war in the making.

The Israelis are doing this to strategically get at Iran, and maybe Syria.

But it will also affect their relationship with Turkey, which is fairly good at present.

For the Kurds, who will accept any help to further their cause, they could be the ones who are 'punished', the pawn in a Israeli game to get at Iran and Turkey.

Originally posted by Nygdan
That'd have to figure into it, sure. Whats wrong with the Israelis taking sensible steps?

Because they're messing around with people already vulnerable in one country ravaged by war to get at another country strategically.

They don't care what happens to the Kurds, or what consequences the Kurds may have inflicted upon them. It's to score strategic points and assets.

A game, in a place where games have no place.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
This is a great find.

Thankyou, but I really think BBC Newsnight's Mark Urban gets the credit for the investigation, I merely posted the investigation results here.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
The pieces will come together shortly.

And that's what worries me.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I just find it so funny that the country that is training hit squads in other countries as well as its own can actually sit there and point fingers at Syria for giving arms to Hizbollah to protect Lebanon.

Well said. Sickening really.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
If this is true then it is the same people who have been contacting me to help teach their instructors.

If you can, can you post more? Do they match the company names mentioned in the Newsnight investigation?

Originally posted by Harlequin
a nice big `what if`


bombing of turkish ilitary forces


the kurds are fund to be behind any bombing of turkish forces (as i said a what if)


what will the usa do , when tukey calls to mobilise nato against this threat?

Turkey could use this, as a part of a 'War on Terror'...if Turkey did this, and called on Nato to mobilise....Nato could refuse...in which case, Turkey may go on it's own against the Kurds....maybe Nato would mobilise, to keep Turkey in line, on a leash in it's operations.

Hard to tell.

Originally posted by mondegreen
that is one strange point of view. 911 was planned and run by the Israelis to gain control over the Iraq terrority.

Forgive me for not taking your word on that. The yehudis have every right to make sensible preparations, such as ensuring having good ties with a neighbhor of their own and of a possible enemy of theirs, in order to fight back if and when attacked.

Hows that, war spreading freindly relations amoung nations, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend', as they say.

thepieman
I just find it so funny that the country that is training hit squads in other countries as well as its own can actually sit there and point fingers at Syria for giving arms to Hizbollah to protect Lebanon.

Imagine, hypocrisy and cynicism in international politics. Maybe, after being attacked by proxies for so long, they figure its time to get in on the game, rather than loose it.

Harlequin
what will the usa do , when tukey calls to mobilise nato against this threat?

Probably have the same reaction that turkey did when fellow nato member the USA requested its help in fighting in iraq and afghanistan.

regensturm
This is not Israelis and Kurds walking around hand in hand and holding flowers, Nygdan.

Indeed, perhaps they will merely be sharing beers over taking northern Iran or eastern Turkey and Syria, who knows.

This is an ethnic group, that evidence suggests, is being trained in firearms tactics and operations, possibly to use in Iran.

Clearly, according to international standards, this is perfectly acceptable, re: Hezbollah, Hamas, the iraqi insurgency, etc etc.

Such tactics will also be used by the Kurds to continue their campaign in Turkey and Syria as well, parts of which they see as Kurdistan, and later possibly against Iraqis themselves,

My my, what an ironic situation, islamic republics being destroyed by muslim terror groups. How appropriate that the metaphor for this is a genii in a bottle.

A partnership of war, in a country ravaged by war.

My good man, those are the best kinds of partnerships! Armed free men acting out of selfish desire!

The Kurds are not going to stay out of it by working with the Israelis

Fear of destruction and memories of arab wrath being unleashed upon them is what is going to motivate the kurds to start a little genocide of their own. Being confident in their security because of anglo-yehudi training and equiping will, if anything, restrain it. And if iraq does fall apart, and a free kurdistan does form, their ability to potentially defend it will prevent the 'shiastan' and 'sunnistan' parts of iraq from actively invading. The 'immpermeability' of a nations borders is what prevents it from being attacked in the first place.

Long-held suspicions by Muslim countries that the Kurds have been working with the Israelis appear to have been proven right

And only the iranians and Turks will have much to worry about this, perhaps if the kurds had been more of a threat in the past, they would't have treated them so harshly. Reap what you sow, this is, after all, the fertile crescent, no suprise that seeds of violence should flourish.

the Turks and the Iranians may move in on the Kurds, but a possibility remains so will the Iraqis.

And with anglo-yehudi assistance, they will in all likely hood make kurdistan grow to include parts of Turkey, Iran, and more of Iraq.

Northern Iraq could see more bombings now by the Sunni extremists

In kirkuk, yes, since hussein moved sunni arabs from the tikrit region into kirkuk as a demographic means of controling its oil. That is, assuming the sunnis are stupid and actually stay in kirkuk with well armed and angry peshmerga prowling around. You can only have sectarian violence when different sects are in close contact.

It could be a wider war in the making.

A wider war is already in the making, regardless of what the israelis or kurds do.

For the Kurds, who will accept any help to further their cause, they could be the ones who are 'punished', the pawn in a Israeli game to get at Iran and Turkey.

And how will occupied Iran do anything against the kurds?

Because they're messing around with people already vulnerable in one country ravaged by war to get at another country strategically.

Again, what is wrong with that?

They don't care what happens to the Kurds

Yes they do, the kurds are important to them, the yehudis are important to the kurds, etc.

or what consequences the Kurds may have inflicted upon them

It is up to the kurds to consider what consequences their actions may have. Indeed, the possiblity of facing an intractable insurgency might be enough to make them stay within their borders if iraq falls apart, rather that run around the middle east shooting into the air and dancing around.

Nato could refuse...in which case, Turkey may go on it's own against the Kurds....maybe Nato would mobilise, to keep Turkey in line, on a leash in it's operations.

Or nato could demand that turkey stay out of the politics of an ally of a memberstate, as an independant kurdistan would almost instantly be a close ally of the US, Britain, etc etc.

Nygdan
My understanding of The Coalition of The Willing, was that any country not taking part was not eligible to benefit.


Regensturm
This apparent "leak" must have a purpose. They would not reveal themselves so easily and in such a capacity unless there was some kind of response they were looking for.
I am also wondering about all the past reports/rumors about Israeli contractors having been in-country wreaking havoc and driving around Iraq randomly shooting people in order to incite. I wonder if any of those had merit going by this report it is possible since they denied being in Iraq at all and were supposedly not taking part in the Iraqi operation.


Pie

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, perhaps they will merely be sharing beers over taking northern Iran or eastern Turkey and Syria, who knows.

I'm glad you find the potential catastrophe arising from this amusing.

Originally posted by NygdanClearly, according to international standards, this is perfectly acceptable, re: Hezbollah, Hamas, the iraqi insurgency, etc etc.

And so if sanctions are placed on Syria and Iran for supporting Hezbollah, to keep the balance of fairness, sanctions should also be placed on Israel for supporting the Kurdish Fighters, because after all one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist, as the adage goes.

Fair's fair.

Originally posted by Nygdan
My my, what an ironic situation, islamic republics being destroyed by muslim terror groups. How appropriate that the metaphor for this is a genii in a bottle.

Actually, Kurds follow many religions, Sunni Islam, Shia Islam, Christianity, Judaism among others.

So, 'muslim terror groups' is a rather broad stroke to paint. This is a predominantly Nationalist movement.

Genie in a bottle is one metaphor. 'Panadora's Box' or 'Opening The Gates Of Hell' are others to describe the invasion of Iraq.

Originally posted by Nygdan
My good man, those are the best kinds of partnerships! Armed free men acting out of selfish desire!

There's only one side of this partnership that will benefit my dear fellow, and they are not the Kurds.

The Kurds shall be the sacrifical lamb for creating a new front for Israel's enemies.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Fear of destruction and memories of arab wrath being unleashed upon them is what is going to motivate the kurds to start a little genocide of their own. Being confident in their security because of anglo-yehudi training and equiping will, if anything, restrain it.!

My, my, my, what a rose tinted view you have of anglo-yehudi training and equipping of armed groups!

I would laugh if it was not so tragic!

This will merely bolster the Kurds if they did indeed start as you call it, 'a little genocide of their own'.

But what is Kurds killing Arabs and Iranians and Turks at the end of the day. Small fry. Their War. Let's care not a jot, right?

Nevermind they were given the training and told where to point their guns.

Just don't shout and cry when it all comes down on the Kurds like a ton of bricks.

It's just a little genocide, after all.

Originally posted by Nygdan
And if iraq does fall apart, and a free kurdistan does form, their ability to potentially defend it will prevent the 'shiastan' and 'sunnistan' parts of iraq from actively invading. The 'immpermeability' of a nations borders is what prevents it from being attacked in the first place.

The possibility of the massacre of the Kurds when Kurdistan tries to take shape is from the Kurds being within Iranian, Syrian, Turkish and Iraqi borders when they start to proclaim their state.

Originally posted by Nygdan
And only the iranians and Turks will have much to worry about this, perhaps if the kurds had been more of a threat in the past, they would't have treated them so harshly. Reap what you sow, this is, after all, the fertile crescent, no suprise that seeds of violence should flourish.

Reap what you sow indeed, if that is what you call sectarian strife and genocide.

As I said, Kurds are in the borders of three countries. It may not be who you think who reaps what you sow.

Originally posted by Nygdan
And with anglo-yehudi assistance, they will in all likely hood make kurdistan grow to include parts of Turkey, Iran, and more of Iraq.

And parts of Syria, if you look at the map of what the Kurdistan looks like to the Kurds

And Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq will sit back in be happy with this of course, ignoring that history says otherwise.

Originally posted by Nygdan
In kirkuk, yes, since hussein moved sunni arabs from the tikrit region into kirkuk as a demographic means of controling its oil. That is, assuming the sunnis are stupid and actually stay in kirkuk with well armed and angry peshmerga prowling around. You can only have sectarian violence when different sects are in close contact.

You have sectarian violence when you have Kurds in 4 different countries saying they want a Kurdistan.

Kurds and Turks? Close contact.

Kurds and Arabs in Iraq and Syria? Close contact.

Kurds and Iranians? Close contact.


You have at least 3 armies of three nations breathing down their necks. Not to mention Sunni militant groups formed to protect the Sunnis from the Kurds, (action=reaction) and also the extreme Sunni groups.

Originally posted by Nygdan
A wider war is already in the making, regardless of what the israelis or kurds do.

So it's okay for the Israelis to capitalise on this, and use the Kurds for a new front, and aggravate things further?

Originally posted by Nygdan
And how will occupied Iran do anything against the kurds?

Three years on from invasion, and Iraq is hardly under control. If you think this is a good basis for invading Iran.....think again, do think again and learn.

*shakes head*

Because they're messing around with people already vulnerable in one country ravaged by war to get at another country strategically.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Again, what is wrong with that?

It's playing pawn with people's lives. If you don't see that as immoral and dangerous and stupid, I despair.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Yes they do, the kurds are important to them, the yehudis are important to the kurds, etc.

The Kurds are only important to the Israelis as far as creating a new front for Israel's enemies.


The Kurd's will be the sacrifice to fulfill this role.

Originally posted by Nygdan
It is up to the kurds to consider what consequences their actions may have.

Yes it is, but perhaps the Israeli's are whispering in their ears "Do it, do it, declare your independence, start your fight." and the Kurds started seeing and hearing visions of grandeur.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Indeed, the possiblity of facing an intractable insurgency might be enough to make them stay within their borders if iraq falls apart, rather that run around the middle east shooting into the air and dancing around..

Either way, the Kurds will come in for hardship.

Originally posted by Nygdan
Or nato could demand that turkey stay out of the politics of an ally of a memberstate, as an independant kurdistan would almost instantly be a close ally of the US, Britain, etc etc.

Who is more valuable to NATO in the present climate, a Muslim country bidding to be an EU member, one that has a modern military and has good relations with Israel.....or people bidding for self determination and causing anger to Turkey, Syria, Iran and Iraq and opening up a regional conflict.

You decide.

Originally posted by The PieMaN
Regensturm
This apparent "leak" must have a purpose. They would not reveal themselves so easily and in such a capacity unless there was some kind of response they were looking for.

Open up a new front for Israel's enemies.

Originally posted by The PieMaN
I am also wondering about all the past reports/rumors about Israeli contractors having been in-country wreaking havoc and driving around Iraq randomly shooting people in order to incite. I wonder if any of those had merit going by this report it is possible since they denied being in Iraq at all and were supposedly not taking part in the Iraqi operation.

It would not surprise me Pie. Divide and rule, create Sunni on Shia hits and vice versa.


And don't forget, the old US Military commander of Abu Ghraib (I forget her name) claimed Israelis were present often at Abu Ghraib when she was in charge, and without her permission.

Originally posted by Regensturm
And don't forget, the old US Military commander of Abu Ghraib (I forget her name) claimed Israelis were present often at Abu Ghraib when she was in charge, and without her permission.

Absolutely. I have read reports from Palestinian Americans who have been "detained" in Israel for questioning and the methods described sound so astonishingly similiar. I would not be surprised if Mossad or Shin Beit were not being used as consultants for not only Iraq but the majority of our rendition operations as well.

I think that Israel being involved in all this is going to have many bad repurcussions. I think we have taken on many of that tiny countries bad qualities towards muslims and arabs in general. These Kurds seem like they are just going to be trained as Israeli programmable attack dogs that won't be traceable back to them in the future.

I still have not seen any other News articles about this in any American or Israeli news source as of yet. I am also surprised that since Israel is on friendly terms with Turkey and knowing the Kurdish/Turkish relations are on the rocks why they would be willing to risk such an allegiance with the Kurds. If Im not mistaken I believe the Kurds also hold control of Oil fields which might be one of their goals.
America was not the only country with Fossil fuel on its mind with the invasion of Iraq.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN


Absolutely. I have read reports from Palestinian Americans who have been "detained" in Israel for questioning and the methods described sound so astonishingly similiar. I would not be surprised if Mossad or Shin Beit were not being used as consultants for not only Iraq but the majority of our rendition operations as well.

I would not be surprised either.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I think that Israel being involved in all this is going to have many bad repurcussions. I think we have taken on many of that tiny countries bad qualities towards muslims and arabs in general. These Kurds seem like they are just going to be trained as Israeli programmable attack dogs that won't be traceable back to them in the future.

Agreed. I think it's been proven if anyone was in any doubt when looking at what happened to Beirut and other Lebanese towns and villages, and the treatment of Palestinians, that the Israelis have a xenophobic hatred of Muslims, and don't hold them in any regard worthy as a 'life'.

The US and to a lesser extent the UK military has been influenced this, both like Israel, occupying territories not within their sovereign borders.

There's a Court Martial involving UK Soldiers going on here at the moment, about how Iraqis were rounded up, beaten, and their screams of pain and mercy were conducted by one British soldier as his 'choir' providing 'music'.

One Iraqi man, a father of two, and a husband, who looks so happy with his family in a family photograph, died.

A Corporal has become the first British soldier to admit to a war crime, and a Colonel is also implicated for seeing what the soldiers were doing, and not putting a stop to it.

Disturbing.


If you want a link to the story, let me know.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I still have not seen any other News articles about this in any American or Israeli news source as of yet.

The BBC Newsnight report mentioned briefly something about how it was mentioned in a Israeli newspaper.

From what I've seen of American media (I can't pass comment on the Israeli media, I have no experience of it) it is very unquestioning and just reports on the headlines without really...investigating, and getting behind those headlines.

I think to myself.....is this the same US Media that discovered what was behind The Watergate Scandal and blew it out of the water for all to see?

There has been some investigations....but it appears all hesitant and concerned about appearing 'unpatriotic'.


Since Dr David Kelly's death here in the UK, and the The Hutton Whitewash Report into it, it was not the government who got lambasted, but the BBC! They really had their back broken, and jobs were lost from director-general down.

Now, the only good 'behind the headlines' current affairs programmes here are BBC 2 's Newsnight (Although I wish Jeremy Paxman was on more often), Channel 4 News, BBC Radio 4's 'Today', BBC2's 'The Daily Politics', and BBC1's 'This Week' and BBC1's 'Question Time' and the all too rarely shown Channel 4's 'Dispatches'.

BBC News itself along with ITV News, has dumbed down horribly, and the fantastic international correspondents like John Simpson, Jeremy Bowen, Orla Guerin and Fergal Keane are sidelined in favour of consumer-driven news and anti-immigrant stories that rot your brain.

But I digress....

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
I am also surprised that since Israel is on friendly terms with Turkey and knowing the Kurdish/Turkish relations are on the rocks why they would be willing to risk such an allegiance with the Kurds. If Im not mistaken I believe the Kurds also hold control of Oil fields which might be one of their goals.

Israel see getting at Iran and Syria more important than relations with Turkey, which is insane for them to think like that, but they are driven by a hatred.

Turkey won't like hearing about Israelis supporting Kurds, but perhaps Israel are betting on Turkey being tempered in their reaction in their longing to join the EU.

Whether Israel's betting turns out as they think it will remains to be seen, and is a risky bet indeed....

The Kurds do indeed hold oilfields, Kirkuk, and another oilfield, might be near or is Mosul.

They want to keep hold of them. It will fund their bid for nationhood. The Iraqis will not like it. At the moment I think from what I remember, a deal was struck to share the profits between the Kurds and the Iraqis for the time being.

How long that will last, remains, naturally, to be seen.

Originally posted by ThePieMaN
America was not the only country with Fossil fuel on its mind with the invasion of Iraq.

Indeed.







[edit on 23-9-2006 by Regensturm]

This appears to be a smart move by both partys. Iraq only exists on a map it was never really a countrie to begin with instead it was a British and French political creation after the first world war. I think that this could be taken as a sign that the writing is on the wall that is the odds are in favour of Iraq falling like a pack of cards after coalition forces leave.