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'New delay' to Airbus super-jumbo

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posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 02:33 AM
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FFS Carch, this post is like Groundhog Day!

Originally posted by carcharodon
They can rewrite their business plan with smaller planes. Maybe some of them are seeing that such an enormous plane could be a major burden.

They didn't just buy the plane because they liked the look of it, their orders were placed after studies which showed they need it. Why do you think Boeing hurriedly came up with the 747-8 after years of saying no such plane was needed? Their is no evidence at all to back up your wishful thinking here, again, you are ignoring the simple fact that the A380's problems ARE NOT about the concept of the plane being wrong.

Imagine you have a problem with your electrical system. Who's going to fix it?

Your maintainence centre, of course, what's funny



maybe some 747-8 and some 787's can do the job and that huge Hubs things can be replace with multiple point to point flights...

The 747 and Concorde story all over again... and it seems Boeing got it right again...


Yes, of course! Airbus, who are building a 250-350 seat twin and a 500+ seat jumbo have got it all wrong, while Boeing, in complete contrast, are offering a 250-350 seat twin and a 500+ seat jumbo instead.This is quite plainly then The Right Thing To Do.

Er......


I suspect that the real motivation behind more than a few of these posts is the simple fact that the 'Biggest Airliner in the World' isn't American any more and that is seen as an affront to American pride.


[edit on 4-10-2006 by waynos]




posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 03:59 AM
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The real problem may be this:


But that's certainly not news that is going to please Airbus's airline customers, who are already moaning about soaring fuel costs. German national carrier Lufthansa, a major Airbus customer, is already estimating internally that the A380 will consume 14 percent more fuel than Airbus has officially disclosed.



Of course, not too many posting on these threads actually understand the real concerns to airlines at all. They just see Airbus- - trouble and post the first but of nonsense that comes into their heads.


If indeed the A380 does munch through 15% more fuel than specified in contracts, Airbus is in DEEP trouble!




edit: quote tags!

[edit on 4-10-2006 by kilcoo316]



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 04:23 AM
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There is also the fact that customers will be seeking compensation for the affects this will have on their business, this will affect airbus's profitabilaty as well


He said Qantas would now be seeking compensation from Airbus, under the terms of its contract.


source



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 04:46 AM
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Spot on Kilcoo, something like that would be real trouble for the plane as economy is what it is all about.

I wonder how they are getting those figures at Lufthansa? I'll have to scour the flight test reports to see if there is anything on fuel burn.

Solidshot, that is exactly right, but it doesn't show Airbus planes to be bad, only the company as being badly run until the recent changes, which we all know about anyway.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 06:58 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot
There is also the fact that customers will be seeking compensation for the affects this will have on their business, this will affect airbus's profitabilaty as well


He said Qantas would now be seeking compensation from Airbus, under the terms of its contract.


source



But that compensation is only for delays to the program, and in the grand scheme of things, its a pittance.


However, what if the airlines were to turn around and demand Airbus were to pay for whatever excess fuel was used over the fuel burn specificed by Airbus in the contracts over the lifetime of the aircraft?

That is a big deal, and is pretty much what killed McDonnell Douglas [McDD had to compensate the airlines for the poor performance].



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 07:10 AM
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Oh, I've also now spotted a few "experts" saying the delays might stop future orders.


However, one expert said the production problems afflicting the A380 could deter prospective customers.

"I think this could be the tipping point," said J B Groh, an aviation analyst with investment bank DA Davidson.

"Not necessarily for those customers that have already ordered the A380 but for those about to order some large aircraft."



From BBC


Obviously, anyone with 2 or more brain cells to rub together will immediately think, "what does teething production problems have to do with orders 5 or 6 years down the line? Unless Airbus plan on not fixing the problems!". The 2nd thought is then - "who on earth was stupid enough to give that "analyst" a job?



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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Quite.

with 159 in total to be built already before anyone else gets a look in, if the manufacturing problems of today were to still exist when airframe MSN 160 was due to be delivered then you might as well forget it now.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 09:52 AM
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As everyone who knows me realizes, I am completely unbiased and objective about this.

However, this morning on the drive in, I heard about the latest delay, along with the money saving plan that seems to have the rank-and-file of EADS workers a bit worried as to the security of their jobs.

The news of course, is the subject of office-cooler and e-mail conversation throughout the plant; I will chekc outside at lunch and see if we have lowered our flag to half-staff.



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 10:54 AM
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The latest delays in A380 production will push deliveries back by one year, and generate financial losses for EADS. (Airbus © photo)AMSTERDAM --- Following a detailed joint EADS / Airbus review of the A380 programme, Airbus has revised the A380 delivery schedule for the period 2007 to 2010. The first Airbus A380 series aircraft will be delivered in the second half of 2007. In 2008 Airbus plans to deliver 13 aircraft. In 2009, 25 A380s shall leave the final assembly line followed by 45 A380s in 2010, with that year’s total including the first freighters.

Compared to the June 13 plan deliveries will be delayed for another year on average, EADS announced after a meeting of its Board of Directors on Tuesday and specified the resulting financial impact.

However, the A380 review also confirmed that type certification for the A380 is likely to be achieved by the end of the year. While flight testing is proceeding as planned, the A380 is meeting or even exceeding its performance targets, and proves to be a highly reliable and comfortable aircraft.

link to story

Hopefully this may rectify the situation



posted on Oct, 4 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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There was a report on the north wales news last night that airbus may be looking for redundancies as well and that broughton could be in the fireing line



posted on Oct, 5 2006 @ 12:28 AM
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With BAE pulling out stakes, is anybody surprised that they would kill off UK commitments? Maybe not this fast but its only aamtter of time IMHO. Now if Boeing was smart, it would open a second 787 line in the UK with BAE as a major risk sharing partner.



posted on Oct, 5 2006 @ 03:24 PM
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Airbus A380 delays force Rolls-Royce to suspend Trent 900 production for one year

www.flightglobal.com... e.html

This is looking like a perfect storm each day that passes. Add to that Boeing has added 18 new orders for their new 747 this week...

active.boeing.com...

[edit on 5-10-2006 by carcharodon]



posted on Oct, 5 2006 @ 04:03 PM
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Well, why build engines just to stick them in a yard for a year?

Not true about the 747 orders. You're fishing Carch.

Nippon Cargo Airlines and Cargolux have commitments for 18 aircraft between them (8 and 10 respectively)

If you look at the list they are credited with two each while 14 are undisclosed (the ones highlighted for this week)

I don't know why they are listed like that, maybe someone will explain, but those operators committed to 18 aircraft from the start so it does not represent an increase.

In fact in the list you linked to it has a row clearly marked as the order change by type for this week and under the 747 column there is no figure, ie NO CHANGE! Why not actually look at your own source dude?


I'm not saying the 747 wont sell, but to present this as evidence that the A380 customers are turning their backs is utter hogwash.

Number of Airlines known to have orderd the 747-8I instread of the A380 = 0
Number of A380 orders known to have been cancelled to date = 0
Number of 747-8I's known to have been ordered for passenger services = 0

See where your going wrong? its all just a big assumption without ANY evidence to back it up.

I like a good debate with you on factual stuff - like the other thread for instance - but this is just rubbish.

[edit on 5-10-2006 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 12:15 PM
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Again I'm not sure this is the right place to post this in; maybe there should be a "Airbus 380 Grand Unification Thread."

Some of this article covers the software problems mentioned before, but is an interesting read nevertheless:

www.businessweek.com...



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 12:21 PM
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Chiristian Streiff delivered his speech to Airbus employees the other day following his in depth review of the company, its products and its future.

It confirms the overall delay to the A380 but also speels out the exact reasons and what is being done about it.

Basically it explains that Airbus itself has got some serious sorting out to do (as we knew) but that the A380 itself is perfectly fine, even above expectation, and the production lines at Airbus are sold out for the next 5 years across across the range so its not all completely bad. Of course he had to give them some sugar with the bitter pill so they didn't all go and slash their wrists


The full body of the speech, unedited is contained here if you want to read it.

the speech in full

[edit on 6-10-2006 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 01:29 PM
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Great post, and a good speech in not throwing the blame for problems at anyones feet... or did he?

The thing that haunts me about the talk is this part:

"Power 8 is about

1/ First getting back to basics – in other words making great single aisle and long-range aircraft.

2/ Its about doing things the RIGHT way, FASTER, with as little capital as possible and the lowest possible costs.

3/ It's about real change. It will be difficult; there will be no room for complacency. But it will also be worthwhile and rewarding. We will make Airbus a true architect and integrator. We will move away from the heavy 1:1 sales-to-capital ratio that limits our potential and achieve a much less capital intensive structure. We will free ourselves from the legacy will become truly one integrated Airbus. "


Sounds like an almost verbatum repeat of Dan Goldin's "Better, cheaper, faster" speech when he took over NASA in the 90"s.

We all know how that worked out.



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 02:17 PM
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Stop the presses!

HUGE, if true:

news.yahoo.com...



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 04:50 PM
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Absolutely astonishing, if true, as you say, and no way of dressing it up either given the speech he made only two days ago.

From that report though I'm not sure if he has quit (which seems unbelievable) or if these other two guys have conspired to try and get rid of him? After all it does say that they 'have agreed he should go'. Maybe their own positions are under threat and the culling of senior mangement hasn't finished yet?



posted on Oct, 6 2006 @ 05:12 PM
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UPDATED




From the little bit of info on the link here and above I would hazard a guess that Streiff did indeed offer his resignation but purely as a means of flexing his muscles and seeing how much backing he has got from the management and how far he can go making painful changes. (ie if they don't back him he might as well not be there anyway).

Thats just my guess as to his motives. As for the confused 'yes he can go, no he can't ' responses reported I just don't know if thats more ineptitude at the top or confused reporting.

I've got to work for a couple of days now but I'll be interested to see if there have been developments when I return.

edit ; dunno why its all in bold, there are no bold tags in the thread


[edit on 6-10-2006 by waynos]



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 08:35 PM
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The cost of "delay":
Airbus to pay Kingfisher $22m for A380 delay

Pocket money, but even so, if not watched, it can and will add up to big numbers in the end. Accordingly, how many more monetary penalties will be paid bu Airbus for continued "delays"?


Originally posted by sminkeypinkey
"Delay", what actual "new delay"?
There isn't an annoucement of a "new delay".

You mean you'd like us to speculate on some media speculation you've posted up?


[edit on 7-10-2006 by Seekerof]




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