Anyone who thinks the Patriot Act is a good thing has completely lost it.

reviewjournal.printthis.clickab... ility.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8164533&fb=Y&partnerID=565

This is crap.

were written to be vague in their scope so that those who know the truth can be rounded up so they won't scare the rest of the herd and interfere with production.
Terrorism is a lie.

Oh that Ashcroft and his wacky Patriot shenanigans!

But seriously, what the #? I thought Patriot act could only be used in cases dealing with terrorism.

Now they simply interpret terrorism to suit their purposes.
We now have..
-Terrorists=Vague to the extreme...
-Narco Terrorists=Drug dealers users and 3rd parties.
-Eco- terrorists=Don't get caught dumping used oil...
-Domestic- Terrorism=Don't hit anyone at all...don't threaten them,don't push your beliefs..
There are lots more interpretations yet to be used, for instance though, in Arkansas, there is a law against certain military types of weapons because they terrorise people with their military appearance, and semi-automatic weapons which can fire more than 5 rounds with a simple pull of the trigger are called "machine guns",which makes them illegal to possess.
These acts are so vague they are dangerous to absolutely anyone and everyone.
Read them, then wonder if there is any way they could be used against you.
I am sure most people are guilty of something, however inane, which could fall under these vague laws.
Really!.

"The Patriot Act will expire in 2005 unless Congress renews it."

hmmmmm..... I wonder if some "terrorist" attack will happen before the Patriot Act expires. I'd think so.

The Patriot Act will expire in 2005 unless Congress renews it. "More activity like this is going to cause us to take a close look at what was passed," Reid said of the law being invoked in the Galardi probe.

Damn straight! Terrorist is a generic term.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
were written to be vague in their scope so that those who know the truth can be rounded up so they won't scare the rest of the herd and interfere with production.
Terrorism is a lie.

Terrorism is a lie????? You'll have to explain the rationale behind that statement....

"Terrorism" has now become any crime the attorney general regards as a threat to HIS government. i.e., protesting, selling drugs, participating in an organization like "Greenpeace", etc.

Terrorism happens in real life, but the idea that America is at risk by box-cutter carrying terrorists is a lie set up by the government so that they can turn us into a police state by declaring marshall law.

Look at the incidents in San Francisco and Seattle where they arrested hundreds of PEACEFUL protestors for no reason. The cops didn't even know what the Constitutional rights of the public were!

If there is one more "terrorist" attack on US soil, they will declare a police state, and we'll be forced to hide or fight if we don't want to go along with the program.

Originally posted by goregrinder
reviewjournal.printthis.clickab... ility.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&expire=&urlID=8164533&fb=Y&partnerID=565

This is crap.

Oh yeah, they'll be lovin' it for sure when THE GOON SQUAD COMES KNOCKIN' DOWN THEIR DOOR....
Because you're a
Muslim
Christian
Jew
homo
disabled
dark-skinned
catholic
drug user/dealer
mentally handicapped
You name it..........................
Unless you're rich and of the elite you will be hosed or thrown into a "dentention facility." Get ready.. Zero hour is closer than you think....

gg

Thanks for getting off your right-leaning fence on this one!

There are a number of good analyses of the USA PATRIOT Act here at ATS.

I bet some members may not even know that USA PATRIOT Act is a long acronym.....

Providing
Appropriate
Tools
Required to
Intercept and
Obstruct
Terrorism

It just makes me feel all tingly to say it knowing it means so much more than it implies.

Originally posted by uNBaLaNCeD
Providing
Appropriate
Tools
Required to
Intercept and
Obstruct
Terrorism

It just makes me feel all tingly to say it knowing it means so much more than it implies.

Yes... I wonder how many hours and tax-payer dollars it took for the suits to come up with that nifty little acronym?

Some schmoe probably plageurized some short story their High School aged kid wrote for that title.
These guys just look more stupid the more they do, I just wish some people on this end would start to wake up en masse.
Arrogant cocksmoker alert,arrogant cocksmoker alert.

The man who was defeated in an election by a dead guy - Saint John the Ashcroft - would be the Attorney General of the good ol' USA....

Truth is stranger than fiction...

We Can Stop This If We Work together
Its Obvious The Whole
Idea of Government Needs Reform
If you Like Jeffersonian Ideas
And I do

Jion the peaceful REVOLUTION

Make America Free Again


www.libertarian.org...

Originally posted by straterx
We Can Stop This If We Work together
Its Obvious The Whole
Idea of Government Needs Reform
If you Like Jeffersonian Ideas
And I do

Jion the peaceful REVOLUTION

Make America Free Again


www.libertarian.org...

Originally posted by jezebel
"Terrorism" has now become any crime the attorney general regards as a threat to HIS government. i.e., protesting, selling drugs, participating in an organization like "Greenpeace", etc.

Terrorism happens in real life, but the idea that America is at risk by box-cutter carrying terrorists is a lie set up by the government so that they can turn us into a police state by declaring marshall law.

Look at the incidents in San Francisco and Seattle where they arrested hundreds of PEACEFUL protestors for no reason. The cops didn't even know what the Constitutional rights of the public were!

If there is one more "terrorist" attack on US soil, they will declare a police state, and we'll be forced to hide or fight if we don't want to go along with the program.

The PEACEFUL protestors you speak of were not charged with any violation of the Patriot act. As for the threat posed by "box-cutter carrying terrorists" was proven a couple of years ago. Since that will most probably not work again, the laws had to be tightened up. Bottom line is, if you are doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. Give me one actual VERIFIABLE case where someone has been arrested under the Patriot act for "protesting, selling drugs, participating in an organization like "Greenpeace", etc. " Oh, and by the way, the last time I looked, selling drugs was still on the books as a federal "No-No"...

Well here's an article from the New York Times talking about the Justice Department report which cites more than a dozen cases that are not directly related to terrorism. Justice Department officials said the cases cited in the report represent only a small sampling of the many hundreds of nonterrorism cases pursued under the law.

I have to post the entire Article because otherwise you have to pay for the bloody thing to read it.

U.S. Uses Terror Law to Pursue Crimes From Drugs to Swindling
By ERIC LICHTBLAU


WASHINGTON, Sept. 27 -- The Bush administration, which calls the USA Patriot Act perhaps its most essential tool in fighting terrorists, has begun using the law with increasing frequency in many criminal
investigations that have little or no connection to terrorism.


The government is using its expanded authority under the far-reaching law to investigate suspected drug traffickers, white-collar criminals, blackmailers, child pornographers, money launderers, spies and even corrupt foreign leaders, federal officials said.


Justice Department officials say they are simply using all the tools now available to them to pursue criminals terrorists or otherwise. But critics of the administration's antiterrorism tactics assert that such use of the law is evidence the administration has sold the American public a qi y28legabill of goods, using terrorism as a guise to pursue a broader law enforcement agenda.


Justice Department officials point out that they have employed their newfound powers in many instances against suspected terrorists. With the new law breaking down the wall between intelligence and criminal
investigations, the Justice Department in February was able to bring terrorism-related charges against a Florida professor, for example,
and it has used its expanded surveillance powers to move against several suspected terrorist cells.


But a new Justice Department report, given to members of Congress this month, also cites more than a dozen cases that are not directly related to terrorism in which federal authorities have used their expanded power to investigate individuals, initiate wiretaps and other
surveillance, or seize millions in tainted assets.


For instance, the ability to secure nationwide warrants to obtain e-mail and electronic evidence "has proved invaluable in several sensitive nonterrorism investigations," including the tracking of an
unidentified fugitive and an investigation into a computer hacker who stole a company's trade secrets, the report said.


Justice Department officials said the cases cited in the report represent only a small sampling of the many hundreds of nonterrorism
cases pursued under the law.


The authorities have also used toughened penalties under the law to press charges against a lovesick 20-year-old woman from Orange County, Calif., who planted threatening notes aboard a Hawaii-bound cruise
ship she was traveling on with her family in May. The woman, who said she made the threats to try to return home to her boyfriend, was sentenced this week to two years in federal prison because of a provision in the Patriot Act on the threat of terrorism against mass
transportation systems.


And officials said they had used their expanded authority to track private Internet communications in order to investigate a major drug
distributor, a four-time killer, an identity thief and a fugitive who led on the eve of trial by using a fake passport.


In one case, an e-mail provider disclosed information that allowed federal authorities to apprehend two suspects who had threatened to kill executives at a foreign corporation unless they were paid a hefty
ransom, officials said. Previously, they said, gray areas in the law made it difficult to get such global Internet and computer data.


The law passed by Congress just five weeks after the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, has proved a particularly powerful tool in pursuing
financial crimes.


Officials with the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement have seen a sharp spike in investigations as a result of their expanded powers, officials said in interviews.


A senior official said investigators in the last two years had seized about $35 million at American borders in undeclared cash, checks and currency being smuggled out of the country. That was a significant increase over the past few years, the official said. While the
authorities say they suspect that large amounts of the smuggled cash may have been intended to finance Middle Eastern terrorists, much of it involved drug smuggling, corporate fraud and other crimes not
directly related to terrorism.


The terrorism law allows the authorities to investigate cash smuggling cases more aggressively and to seek stiffer penalties by elevating
them from what had been mere reporting failures.


Customs officials say they have used their expanded authority to open at least nine investigations into Latin American officials suspected of laundering money in the United States, and to seize millions of dollars from overseas bank accounts in many cases unrelated to
terrorism.


In one instance, agents citing the new law seized $1.7 million from United States bank accounts that were linked to a former Illinois investor who fled to Belize after he was accused of bilking clients out of millions, federal officials said.


Publicly, Attorney General John Ashcroft and senior Justice Department officials have portrayed their expanded power almost exclusively as a means of fighting terrorists, with little or no mention of other
criminal uses.


"We have used these tools to prevent terrorists from unleashing more death and destruction on our soil," Mr. Ashcroft said last month in a speech in Washington, one of more than two dozen he has given in defense of the law, which has come under growing attack. "We have used these tools to save innocent American lives."


Internally, however, Justice Department officials have emphasized a much broader mandate.


A guide to a Justice Department employee seminar last year on financial crimes, for instance, said: "We all know that the USA Patriot Act provided weapons for the war on terrorism. But do you know how it affects the war on crime as well?"

Elliot Mincberg, legal director for People for the American Way, a
liberal group that has been critical of Mr. Ashcroft, said the Justice Department's public assertions had struck him as misleading and perhaps dishonest.


"What the Justice Department has really done," he said, "is to get things put into the law that have been on prosecutors' wish lists for years. They've used terrorism as a guise to expand law enforcement
powers in areas that are totally unrelated to terrorism."


A study in January by the General Accounting Office, the investigative arm of Congress, concluded that while the number of terrorism investigations at the Justice Department soared after the Sept. 11 attacks, 75 percent of the convictions that the department classified
as "international terrorism" were wrongly labeled. Many dealt with more common crimes like document forgery.


The terrorism law has already drawn sharp opposition from those who believe it gives the government too much power to intrude on people's privacy in pursuit of terrorists.


Anthony Romero, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said, "Once the American public understands that many of the powers granted to the federal government apply to much more than just
terrorism, I think the opposition will gain momentum."


Senator Patrick J. Leahy of Vermont, the ranking Democrat on the Judiciary Committee, said members of Congress expected some of the new powers granted to law enforcement to be used for nonterrorism
investigations. But he said the Justice Department's secrecy and lack of cooperation in putting the legislation into effect made him question whether "the government is taking shortcuts around the criminal laws" by invoking intelligence powers with differing standards of evidence to conduct surveillance operations and demand access to records.


"We did not intend for the government to shed the traditional tools of criminal investigation, such as grand jury subpoenas governed by well-established precedent and wiretaps strictly monitored" by federal
judges, he said.


Justice Department officials say such criticism has not deterred them. "There are many provisions in the Patriot Act that can be used in the general criminal law," Mark Corallo, a department spokesman, said.
"And I think any reasonable person would agree that we have an obligation to do everything we can to protect the lives and liberties of Americans from attack, whether it's from terrorists or garden-variety criminals."

Copyright 2003 The New York Times Company

Ah yes...Just as I thought would happen happened. The Patriot Act is already being abused.

It's kind of like the 5th Amendment for the authorities.