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Should religion be banned

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posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 12:08 PM
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Thanks for your comments and good points, I can see from some of that maybe I should have asked should religeous fanatics/radicals/politicians be banned from highjacking and corrupting religion for their own ends.

And I think there is a real difference between faith and religion, I dont belive our accepted view of evolution or the Adam and Eve tale but my belief is that higher life forms seeded our planet and we the human race are hybrids of those life forms thats my faith but I dont expect others to believe it and I would certainly not expect some cult to be formed out of it and be forced on others as the truth of our origins.

We all need to believe and have faith in something but I think that the aforementioned have taken advantage of that and now use it as a weapon against us and others. If anything people should be free to choose what they want believe and those who force their religion on us should not be allowed to do so.




posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 12:30 PM
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Exactly Mushroom, we need to be able to make our own choices, and to be held accountable for those choices.

Nephyx, as has been said, banning a public practise of religion is not only unenforceable, but is also inhumane. It's a restriction on freedom of speech - the same freedom which you're probably trying to protect by wanting to ban religion. As the old saying goes, two wrongs don't make a right.

Yes, tons and tons of wars have been "fought over religion" - but when you look into those wars in detail, you find that NONE were really about religion. All of them were about power and land and resources and pride - and Religion was used as the tool of Propoganda.

"Where is the richest place in the world?"
"Jerusalem!"
"Hey, wasn't Jesus born there?"
"Yeah - but he was born to Jewish parents, so the Jews own that place"
"Not anymore they don't, the Muslims took it."
"Why?"
"Well, we just said, Jerusalem's rich!"
"Ah, yes, forgot that. But what if we wanted to take it?"
"Well... we would need a lot of people for that."
"Let's ask the Pope, I'm sure he could do something for us!"
"Yeah! Great idea! And we'll split the cash with him! He'll wipe everyone up, and anyone that says it's a bad idea is treasonous! That's a huge soldier base!"

That's how it probably went.

But you could replace almost any other religion in there, because the same can happen. Wars happen because of economics and politics and pride - the tipping point is the cultural philosophies.

"Fight them! They're black!"
"Fight them! They're communists!"
"Fight them! They're terrorists!"
"Fight them! They're heretics!"
"Fight them! They're foreigners!"
"Fight them! They're usurpers!"
"Fight them! They're rich!"
"Fight them! They're savages!"

Really... is it religion that's done these things? Or humans?

And the judge concluded that life itself was in contempt of court, and had it duly removed from everyone in the room.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 02:51 PM
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Historical wars aside, removing religion in present day wouldn't change much, since not all governments are ruled religiously. While our president is a Christian, there is a clear divide between church and state, and anyone who lives in the US probably notices that divide is always expanding. Every decision we make is not decided on a religious level. Some countries, namely Islamic, allow religious leaders more control over national decisions, but removing religion wouldn't really help the world as a whole.

If, for the sake of argument, religion were banned, this would do little to halt war as we know it. If not religion, people will find a new excuse for conflict. They always do.

Lastly, even an athiest/agnostic can agree that when a government can tell its citizens that they are no longer allowed to practice religion, that government has far too much power.



posted on Sep, 21 2006 @ 02:44 AM
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Historical wars aside, removing religion in present day wouldn't change much


I would have to disagree here. the eastern countries that are causing the problems through terrorism at the moment are being fuelled by their religion. They are being brainwashed into thinking that if they kill themselves and take out as many american and british people as they can then they can go to their version of heaven.

but if you think about that for a second, if religion wasnt a part of our society then would the terrorists have anything to hate us for and would they have still attacked the Twin towers on 9/11 and would they have attacked london on 7/7.
I personally dont think that these events would have happened without religion, and look at all of the lives that were lost.



posted on Sep, 21 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by JBourne
I would have to disagree here. the eastern countries that are causing the problems through terrorism at the moment are being fuelled by their religion. They are being brainwashed into thinking that if they kill themselves and take out as many american and british people as they can then they can go to their version of heaven.

but if you think about that for a second, if religion wasnt a part of our society then would the terrorists have anything to hate us for and would they have still attacked the Twin towers on 9/11 and would they have attacked london on 7/7.
I personally dont think that these events would have happened without religion, and look at all of the lives that were lost.


Actually, I can think of a number of things;

1. Power imbalance.
2. Cultural degradation.
3. Greed.

They don't, as Bush loves to say, hate us because of our freedom. They hate us because they're being told to hate. That's being spread through the medium of religion though, giving the impression that it's the religion telling them to hate. But at the core, the reason for the hate is the same.

They hate how we live our lives (they see our morales as being shot and poor - and so have no real trepidation with killing).

They hate how we have invaded their lives, and invaded their countries, and overall made ourselves the boss instead of them (this started with the Cold War).

And the people in power of these organizations love power - and take whatever steps are necessary to secure that power. If Osama really believed what he preached, why does he not go and blow himself up?

Banning religion is just a convenient scapegoat for the truth that human beings are at fault. We have no one to blame but the persons involved - on both sides. Countries now are paying for the destabilization that occured during the Cold War. The Cold War may have been "cold" - but all the behind the scenes backstabs and whatnot is having many, many far-reaching consequences.

I think the Cold War is the reason why so many things are going so wrong in our world today.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:48 AM
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I know osama isnt blowing himself up probably because one he knows he can just get other people to do it for him. 2. he probably has a very high opinion of himself and thinks that he is needed by his people and 3. maybe he is smart enough to realise that what he is preaching is a pile of bull# but he continues to preach for his own means of destroying the west.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 01:26 PM
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I don't think the banning or removal of religion would achieve anything. As has already been pointed out, people would find alternatives to believe in. Unfortunatley, the nature of the human means a certain level of removing responsibilty for ones actions, also, the worlds a scary place so people need to believe there's a higher force at work, therefore admonishing responsibility from themselves. Take alleged alien abductees, many report an experience of seeing images of earth, these images scare them - they're often images of earth blowing up (or something similiar) and a message of doom and gloom if we don't mend our ways. This gives the abductee a feeling that we are being watched and looked after. That experience is no different from a religious experience and serves exactly the same excuse to admonish self responsibilty and the worlds problems in general. This is evident in suicide bombings and acts of terrorism - removing responsibilty for ones own actions under the guise of doing good for a higher cause. That also works the other way too, in people who do nothing and contribute nothing because it's out of there hands because of some evil force ruling the world.imo.

I meant to add - removing all beliefs would undoubtly make the world a safer place, it would also take away that one thing that makes us human - free thought.

Being human and therefore fallibe is the problem but the alternative is not worth contemplating.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Origin Unknown]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:14 PM
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Origin where does the free thought come into it, Religion as a whole is taught in schools etc. when children are at an early age and would normally have no say in the matter so by the time they become adults they have had at least 12 years of brainwashing from the sytem and their parents. Some like myself move away from it but many people carry it with them to there graves because there minds were tainted with it from any early age and as individuals they have not excercised free will. How many times on ATS have people mentioned young muslim children being brainwashed by the Mullah's, well its the same for all kids.
How about a system where children are not taught religion at all but on becoming adults they can choose, that is real free will.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 03:18 PM
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No, not all religions shoul be banned.

In my opinion religions that limit there followers rights should'nt be
allowed to exist, but of course it's the persons right to believe however
they choose, however if that starts infringing on other peoples rights,
it should be limited.


And really, not all religions are bad, name meone war or armed
conflict fought over Buddhism, or Shinto.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 05:39 PM
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No, but those with the most power of doctrine of different religions shouldn't be focusing hatered towards innocent people. It's understandable, if they're killing a living creature, because then you've crossed into..., why am I telling you this.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by forgetitbsbfans]



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Iori thats the problem, religion like many other issues are highjacked by people with an agenda and in pursuing that agenda they are willing to use any means at their disposal, be it Christian, Judaism or Muslim, all religions today have an agenda they are like a parasite that attaches themselves to humans to control and manipulate them, if you remove religion, greed, lust, racism what is there to fight for, nothing. If a Christian pilot was shot down and injured whilst over Iraq and a Iraqi Muslim came to his aid what do you think would happen, do you think the pilot would say no I would rather die than be helped by a Muslim, no he would not because life is more important than religion, wealth or anything else.



posted on Sep, 22 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
Iori thats the problem, religion like many other issues are highjacked by people with an agenda and in pursuing that agenda they are willing to use any means at their disposal...

That is true of a disconcertingly large amount of people in the
Abrahamic religions.




...all religions today have an agenda they are like a parasite that attaches themselves to humans to control and manipulate them...

Not true, yes the abrahamic religions tend to, but they were'nt always like that, well atleast true Christianity was'nt.

The Dalai Llama does'nt have an agenda, Buddhism does'nt try and
control people.
I mean even with me, I've created what could be considered a religion,
and I believe it, true I don't push it on other people, but it's not meant to
control, rather like Buddhism, it's meant to enlighten, though admittedly
in a different way.



if you remove religion, greed, lust, racism what is there to fight for, nothing. If a Christian pilot was shot down and injured whilst over Iraq and a Iraqi Muslim came to his aid what do you think would happen, do you think the pilot would say no I would rather die than be helped by a Muslim, no he would not because life is more important than religion, wealth or anything else.


Perhaps, but you can't remove those things, religion over a long term basis perhaps, but the other things are part of us, and could only be taken out by advanced neural and genetic engineering, and forcing someone to do that is something I'm vehemently against.



posted on Sep, 23 2006 @ 08:17 AM
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Unfortunatley, the nature of the human means a certain level of removing responsibilty for ones actions


It doesnt mean that atall. i dont believe in any religion and i take 100% responsibility for my actions because im the person that is doing them.

i saw a thread on here the other day about christians reaching enlightenment through god. But it also said that to do this you need to take full responsibility for your actions before you can procede.
If religion is just a scape goat for people who want to remove responsibility for their actions then that makes no sense atall.
I think Religions such as christianity have been going on for so long that the true teachings of what they stand for have been long forgotten. Everyone is to caught up about accepting jesus as their saviour when in all truth he was probably just a smart man who gave people advice on being kind to fellow man.



posted on Sep, 23 2006 @ 11:24 AM
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Yeah, that's the real problem - people who don't take responsibility for what they've done. "It's okay to kill an infidel, because that's the path to heaven" type-stuff.

I believe in God, and God gave us free will for a reason - so we can choose what we do, be it for good or evil.

But by giving us (and retaining that) free will, it means that He cannot intervene in any way. Sure God may have created the universe, but after that, well that was that. Things just went on their own merry way.

It wasn't God who saved us from Nuclear Death during the Cold War, it was ourselves.

Likewise, it wasn't the Devil who tried to eliminate the Jews... it was ourselves.

We create our own heaven, we create our own hell. We have no one to praise, and no one to blame, other than ourselves.



posted on Sep, 23 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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I don't think banning religion would solve anything. The people that use religion as an excuse to start trouble would just find another excuse.

Here in the US banning religion would be unconstitutional. Even banning organized religion would be unconstitutional because it takes away our right to assemble.

I just think that there needs to be more seperation between state and religion, and it needs to be better enforced.



posted on Sep, 25 2006 @ 01:54 AM
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I don't think i explained myself very well. I wasn't really thinking about children when i replied magicmushroom, i was thinking more about the actions of adults. I take your point though, although i'm not really sure i agree entirely with it. It can give the impression that it implies that if your taught religion as a child then your less likely to think rationally as an adult. I was brought up a catholic, it has little bearing on my views now though, i'm not convinced either way with regards to religion but i have respect for all religions and far from being the cause of most problems i think that overall they have done more good then harm.

When i was talking about using religion (or a belief) to avoid responsibilty for our actions it wasn't a criticism, infact, we all do it (imo) it's more a case of just smaller and larger degrees of responsibilty. A basic example would be with my own parents, i had a great childhood but my mother definately avoided the responsibilty of telling me the harsh realities of life, preferring to give my this cosy catholic outlook on the world, i was 13 or 14 before i started to wake up to what the world was really like. That's not just down to me being a child either, friends i grew up with were made perfectly aware of the harsh realities of life.

When you talk about Mullahs brainwashing children, i think we have to be carefull not to cloud two issues here - there's alot of difference between teaching a child about religion and brainwashing someone with anti western propaganda.

I don't claim to know the answers on this - i'm simply saying that from my opinion based on my experiences i think everyone in one form or another, whether your athiest, relious or believe a plant pot is your god, we all justify our actions based on out beliefs, these might be small areas within our lives or larger issues like killing in the name of religion.

That's why, in my opinion, banning religion or any other belief is wrong. I think it's an important part of being who we are.

I must admit though, i'd like to see an end of the teaching of specific religions in schools, instead i'd like to see ALL children taught a more broader view, maybe they should be taught "world religions", where they are taught the basics of all religions.

Afterall, religion plays a major part in life (like it or not) if it wasn't taught then we aren't really giving children an accurate view of history and the world as it is today, both on the domestic scene, politics and war.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 06:27 PM
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I agree with your suggestion of teaching young people about all religions, its the first step to understading and it should prevent ignorance and bigotry. I personnaly dont advocate the banning of religion but I wanted to here the views of others on this very emotive subject. Part of the problems in society through the ages is the belief of being better than others, Americans are doing that now, we Brits did it before you and so on. Maybe what should be taught in school is an understanding and acceptance of others, this would hopefully remove some of the ignorance that exists today in all cultures. And rather than playing the liberal card to ethnic minorties we should outlaw any radical view, from any religion that preaches hatred and murder.



posted on Sep, 28 2006 @ 06:41 PM
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I dont think it should be banned, but it should be kept private and out of politics. I think any public display of religon should be banned and any church that talks politics should loose thier tax exemtsion.



posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 03:33 AM
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Let us see if you can follow this line of thinking..the flow.

First off the early premise..that religion is responsible for most of the wars and conflict we see in this world.

Ok...the trend is to paint religion full of zealots. power mongers, etc etc.

IF you think carefully...this is also a description of politics. Especially politics today in America..though it also takes place this way in many nations.

Watch carefully in the interviews on the media..in the newspapers, radio, television...observe the zealousness of the various partys sniping and attempting to cut each others throats often with below the belt techniques. This is also the description of what you see in religions in history past.
Could it be that politics is also a religion...a concealed religion masquerading as a non religion...as intelligence..above and beyond the guilt it associates with religions and religious history??? Politics obviously has very devout adherents ..zealous and devout adherents.
Remember something else..of huge importance...Politics and the body politic....also finance public education. They are not about to teach you enough information to shine light upon themselves. Understand????

What you learn about history and the Church at Rome is that it has been mostly a political movement from the begining ..pitting nation against nation...for their control. Behind the scenes control of events through the front appearence of Religion. When you check closely the charter of the church it claims to be there is no such instruction for a Christian Church to carry on this way. None.

It is the same with the Religion of Peace. IN the hands of its most ferverent and zealous adherents it is anything but...very similar to the history of Rome. Could it be that it is actually a political movement doing the same as Rome was doing and by recent events coming into competition with Rome...eventually???

What you learn if you read history carefully between the lines of what passes for excellence/history nowadays..is that Religion is the most powerful political tool there ever was...especially by men who choose to misuse or pervert it.
We dont often recognize this becasue many of us have been educated in public schools and have only one dimension of thought processes possible in our .s. We ourselves have been controlled by this religion. The religion of only one dimension. We often lack the depth to see the bigger picture..many of us.
This cannot accidental but carefully cultivated in us.

When I read ..watch or listen to the news ..I am much more often ware of this angle and line of thought than I ever was.

I can take this further but this will suffice for now.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Oct, 1 2006 @ 03:52 AM
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Originally posted by wantsome
I dont think it should be banned, but it should be kept private and out of politics. I think any public display of religon should be banned and any church that talks politics should loose thier tax exemtsion.


Now watch this ..how public education can dumb us down so that we cannot think outside of the blocks that passes for thinking now days...even passes for excellence and the moral high ground. Wantsome's statement is hardly moral high ground. Not hardly. Little thinking going on out here because of the religion we have been brainwashed into..by the other religion called politics..which finances most of our educations.

Religion should be kept out of polticic..ok...lets follow this one closely.

Churchs should lose thier tax exemption if they get involved in politics...yes..

My position on this is that churchs should never have a tax number or any tax exemptions....ever...period. Why??? Because this is not seperation of church and state for which so many intelligentsia like to boast.

Anytime a church hands out a chit to their members for tax decuctions at the end of the year this is a.......Tax subsidy...not seperation of church and state. This is the state propping up the churchs with tax supports. Price supports for churchs.

Talk about a stupid ignorant American public. This is beyond dumb. Churchs should be tax immune not tax exempt. Only public education can dumb a people down this far. The whole purpose of tax exemption is to control the churchs if they get out of line politically. Any church which steps out of authorized political lines and has a tax number gets audited as Pat Robertson and others have discovered.
Tax exemption is a status granted by government to a church...they are sleeping together for lucre. They are both guilty. The government and the churchs. Very few churchs of which I know do not have tax numbers...or give out chits.

Talk about a stupid people...most cannot figure this out and the preachers are not about to discuss or tell the congregation about this line of thought.

Yet if you think it through ...you will know that it is true.

Tax exemption is not seperation of church and state..it is the church and government in bed together for mutual benifit...and against the knowlege and wisdom of the public. They are not about to clue the public into this line of thinking.

Understand now magic mushroom about The religion of politics and the financing of public education and the deception of the churchs and the body politic...and the claim of politics to be non religious when they are no such thing.
They are both in it together and they are seducing you!!! In ignorance.
This is a religion of ignorance.

The motto here is "Deny Ignorance." Understand now!!!!???

Thanks,
Orangetom




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