Lunar Strip Mine in John Lear's Moon Photos??, page 4


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reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 01:40 PM by spacedoubt
Originally posted by Apass
Originally posted by spacedoubt
Titanium?
the Bluer the area, the more titanium present.

Why would you want to mine in Copernicus Crater and not in
Mare Tranquillitatis? From your picture, it is there where the whole mining operation should have been...(the bluest area of all the areas)


Mostly because of the "ifs" I think.
Mare Tranquillitatis sure looks like another rich place. I wonder how the digging is there?
If the Maria are formed by volcanic outflows, and are relatively new features, It might be hard to break the surface.

I just said to myself, if the moon is rich in titanium, and the densest location is near/under Copernicus. What if I were to go there, and collect what has already been blasted for me?


reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 01:42 PM by anxietydisorder
Originally posted by SteveR

1. You're looking at circular craters. No one is saying all craters are mining operations. To dispute the thread, you need to dispute the area we're looking at.


Yes, I'm looking at circular craters that are similar to the crater we are discussing.
You just don't understand crater formation.

Copernicus (the one we're talking about), is about 100 kilometers in diameter, and almost 4 kilometers deep. Most craters of this size show a similar structure with terracing and slump blocks on the inside of the crater wall.
Craters on the Moon with diameters larger than about 15 kilometers have more complex forms, including shallow, relatively flat floors, central uplifts, and slump blocks and terraces on the inner wall of the crater rim. In craters on the Moon with diameters between about 20 and 175 kilometers, the central uplift is typically a single peak or small group of peaks. Craters on the Moon with diameters larger than about 175 kilometers can have complex, ring-shaped uplifts.
www.lpi.usra.edu...


The link above should give you a good refresher on crater formation, complete with diagrams.

The area of the picture posted by ScepticOverlord is very deceptive.
1. It was taken with a telephoto lense onboard an orbiting satelite.
2. There is nothing in the picture that gives you a reference as to the size.



Your not looking at an area a few 100 meters tall, your seeing a crater wall that is over 3 kilometers tall. The little steam shovel in the one picture would be just a dot on the landscape shown in the original picture.


Don't let that comparison fool you into seeing something that's not there, the scales are totaly different.

Originally posted by SteveR
2. Those aren't actual photographs. You're using a program that generates a 3D image map. I think that almost ruins it's suitability for this kind of research. Minor details in the image (like the ones we're looking for) are going to be distorted.

Just imo.


I'm using that to show the natural formation of large craters, not to see every pebble on the ground. For the point I was trying to prove, I think it's perfectly suitable for this kind of research.


EDIT: sp

[edit on 19/9/2006 by anxietydisorder]


reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 02:09 PM by SteveR
I'm sorry AD, but I don't buy it.

You contend that we are looking at the side of a natural crater.

Natural Craters

On the tip of each crater wall (in every type) there is "ejecta" which piles up significantly. From looking at Copernicus 2 at normal size, I see no ejecta whatsoever on the tops of the walls. To me, this looks like the surface has been dug into. There is no hill seperating the surface and the hole.

Don't debate me with textbooks and diagrams when I can plainly see with my eyes.

Skeptic Overlord's picture was not deceptive in the least. He just didn't spend hours searching for the best example, I've seen strip mining walls much much taller than that. If this area is as huge as you think (which Lear says he is going to discuss shortly) then that still doesn't disprove a mining operation.

[edit on 19/9/06 by SteveR]


reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 02:11 PM by zorgon
I had a request from Steve R to post this here as well... from the original lunar picture thread...Its hard to keep track of many similar threads when you have limited time LOL I guess all the Lunar Miners came here...

repost...

Okay class one last time... for all those who NEVER look back at previous posts....


This is a strip mine on Earth! Distance 32 miles... show me the clear buildings and roadways... Notice the terraces...



This is a meteor crater on Earth! Notice the radiating debris pattern and the raised rim... Notice there are no terraces even though we have weather erosion on Earth, unlike the moon...



This is a group of Craters on Mars... same as Earth one... no terraces and there is erosion on Mars...



This is Gusev Crater on the Moon... same pattern as the other planets...



Now this is the area in question... THIS looks like a normal Crater HOW? Terraces both flat and at an angle meeting the next level, piles of debris, series of receding steps on the right hand side...



Normal crater indeed!!

About the "box"


This is an ore refinery on Earth... I would expect to fine such a structure on the top level in a mine...





This is the object in the lunar crater...




Not all that hard to see the similarity


reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 02:25 PM by zorgon
Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
An alternate angle from a photo on the Wiki article seems to show the same attributes of the area:
en.wikipedia.org...:Copernicus.gif


I don't see an alternate angle in this wikipedia image... its the same photos all pieced together... I did that myself from John's original posts


reply posted on 19-9-2006 @ 02:28 PM by SkepticOverlord
Originally posted by anxietydisorder
The little steam shovel in the one picture would be just a dot on the landscape shown in the original picture.


To illustrate the point, I've added what should be a reasonable representation of a yellow steam shovel (they're not so little) to the photo at what should be scale.

Here:
www.waid-observatory.com... The copernicus walls are 11,400 feet at their tallest point... if we assume worst case, I cropped the image to cover the cliff-only, and scaled it to 456 pixels, or one pixel for every 25 feet. (The scale is likely off due to the perspective of the photo, but it's close enough for what we're doing here.)

Now if we assign a very generous height of 75 feet to our shovel, it will look something like this:



That should help get a rough idea of scale.
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