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If you think Muslims are equal in the UK, read this...

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posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 02:16 PM
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www.thisislondon.co.uk...


"Jesus is the slave of Allah"

"The pope must die"

"Kill those who offend Islam"

OK so we have one incitemenet to murder, one of religiouse hatred, and one of threats to kill.

Yet the metropolitan Police do NOTHING AGAIN!!! NOTHING!!!!!!

If this was against muslims by the BNP or ANY other group, they would be in jail so fast their feet would not touch the ground.

Just proves they can say and do what they like, and us christians have to accept it.

Disgusting, disgusting attitude lets them know that the Police will do nothing to stop these [people in any way shape or form..........

Metropolitan police, the bully boy protection wing of the Islamic jihad - Because if that was Christians, we would be prosecuted for being full of hatred....

and heres what they really want.....


The powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom: The "Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam."

[edit on 18-9-2006 by D4rk Kn1ght]

mod edit to use "ex" tags
Quote Reference.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by sanctum]




posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 02:31 PM
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www.telegraph.co.uk.../news/2005/07/20/nblame20.xml


here you go - the darling little man that was the mouth piece for the demo is a terrorist leader no less...no wonder the Goverment don't want to touch him....


Anjem Choudary, the British leader of the militant Islamist group al-Muhajiroun.... google that group, and see the killings they have world wide.....and we let them stay here in our country and they get full protection from the Metropolitan Police.


Blooming lovely country we live we live in when a terrorists freedom of speech is granted, but ours as Christians is stamped on every which way....



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 03:50 PM
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The Pope must die, says Muslim

www.thisislondon.co.uk...



A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".



enough is enough..........when are individuals like this going to grow beyond the dark ages?!?

Idiots like Anjem Choudary get other idiots to do acts of violence in the 'name of Allah'.

By the moderate muslim community not getting up and telling idiots like this to shut the hell up, it refelcts very poorly on Islam. (Though they probably won't speak up because then they'll be killed).

mod edit to use "ex" tags instead of "quote" tags
Quote Reference.


[edit on 19-9-2006 by sanctum]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Anjem Choudary, the British leader of the militant Islamist group al-Muhajiroun.... google that group, and see the killings they have world wide.....and we let them stay here in our country and they get full protection from the Metropolitan Police.


OK, except that he was arrested and convicted for his part in the cartoon protest, ("Kill those who offend Islam") -BBC Link

and his group, Al Ghurabaa, was banned in July 2006 and it is now a criminal offence for a person to belong to or encourage support for the group.

All of which hardly counts as being protected by the Met does it?


and we let them stay here in our country
... probably because, as far as I know, he is British.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:20 PM
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Where are all of the good and true Muslims? Why hasn't there been an outrage from this community over the bastardization of their religion? When are they going to bond together and say something?



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:31 PM
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ferretman wrote;By the moderate muslim community not getting up and telling idiots like this to shut the hell up, it refelcts very poorly on Islam


i beleive i have read comments from you before, asking where was the voice of moderate muslims....when i replied, you ignored it.
Hmm
As for Anjem Choudry....tell me where he is and i'll gladly tell him to shut up. I actually tried to find an email address for him a few months ago, but couldnt find one.
I think here, you have to question.....how can the voice of moderate islam be heard, when the media ONLY give attention to morons like Choudry?
You cant have it both ways....you cant say....where is moderate islam?....and then ignore it when it speaks. So many people like you do this, and i kind of get fed up "speaking up" everytime....its become almost like an obligation for me.

Anyway, this guy is an idiot....simple as that. You know, we believe that if we try and claim (as an excuse, at the time of death) we were not allowed to fulfil our religion, God will ask us....wasnt the earth big enough for you?
(this by the way only goes for people who are able to migrate)
And i truly believe that people like Choudry should sod off, if they want to live in an "Islamic country" THAT badly...go.

And to infinite8 who wrote:

Where are all of the good and true Muslims? Why hasn't there been an outrage from this community over the bastardization of their religion? When are they going to bond together and say something


have you talked to any muslims recently?....Listen, i am the first to agree that muslims are acting like sodding hypocrites right now.....no protests about the killing of innocents, etc, but mass hysteria over something the pope says. However, i will say AGAIN, if there was a protest against the extremists, you probably wouldnt hear about it.
In the meantime, do a google search for "muslims against terrorism"...there are plently of us, plenty.

[edit on 18-9-2006 by geek101] (for spelling)

[edit on 18-9-2006 by geek101]

you've also got to think about this. When they protested at the cartoons...i, and many other muslims, were disgusted...and i mean...really appalled that they were allowed to hold up those banners. And the ONLY reason i could fathom as to WHY they were allowed.....was because it allows the media to get a good long look.
If a BNP guy held up an equally offensive placard and immediately got arrested....who the hell would hear about it???


[edit on 18-9-2006 by geek101]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by infinite8
Where are all of the good and true Muslims? Why hasn't there been an outrage from this community over the bastardization of their religion? When are they going to bond together and say something?


That is the $64,000 question. And organizations like CAIR (Coucil on American-Islamic Relations) continue to stifle those THEY label "islamophobes" using our courts instead of denouncing "extremists" who are hijacking their religion. They, as well as so-called "moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. Their silence is deafening and the message is loud and clear: Islam is a hate-filled ideology and ought to be given the same consideration as a hate group like WAR, KKK, and the Nazis.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 08:14 PM
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Just one question for those of you who adhere to Islam.

What gives you/Islam the right to tell a Christian, Buddhist, Lutheran, etc what they are to believe in?



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
and heres what they really want.....

[Ex]The powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom: The "Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam."[/Ex]

And what is wrong with them wanting that? They beleive that their religion is the 'one true religion' and that the pope himself is in error by being an unbeleiver, and that he, like anyone who isn't a muslim, should be saved by islam, precisely the same sort of thing that pretty much every religion beleives.

Obviously its assinine for muslims to riot to protest being called violent, but its hardly any better to call for the heads of muslims for doing it.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 03:13 AM
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Originally posted by shots
Just one question for those of you who adhere to Islam.

What gives you/Islam the right to tell a Christian, Buddhist, Lutheran, etc what they are to believe in?



we dont have that right. Of course, thats putting it simply and that is indeed, the belief that SHOULD be held by muslims.
"let there be no compulsion in religion"

its not a hard verse to understand, but neither is the one which says that if someone insults the Prophet, say "peace" and ignore them.

Unfortunately, not alot of muslims follow the Quran. They follow something entirely different.


freedom_for_sum wrote:
They, as well as so-called "moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. Their silence is deafening and the message is loud and clear




[edit on 19-9-2006 by geek101]



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Yet the metropolitan Police do NOTHING AGAIN!!! NOTHING!!!!!!

If this was against muslims by the BNP or ANY other group, they would be in jail so fast their feet would not touch the ground.


- How very shout shout shouty.


Once again the lack of visible and instant Met Police action is claimed to be complete inaction......and as per the standard against which it is 'weighed' is, straight away, the British neo-nazi party.
Quite laughable.

In any event as we have seen before these claims are usually totally inaccurate.

The cops here tend not to rush in to try and inflame a volitile situation unnecessarily.

Any arrests are likely to come later, as has happened before (umteen times and with many many other groups).

Which makes complete sense.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by geek101
Unfortunately, not alot of muslims follow the Quran. They follow something entirely different.


How can that be considering the fact the fanatic segment always quote the quran as their authority for violence?





freedom_for_sum wrote:
They, as well as so-called "moderate" Muslims are part of the problem. Their silence is deafening and the message is loud and clear


geek101 rolls his/her


Now geek, why would you roll your eyes over that statement? Is it perhaps because it was true? I think so considering that the moderate segment of Islam could put an end to it in an instant if they demanded that the fanatic imams be removed from office as did the catholics in their recent sex scandal.



[edit on 9/19/2006 by shots]



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 10:26 AM
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Originally posted by shots
Now geek, why would you roll your eyes over that statement? Is it perhaps because it was true? I think so considering that the moderate segment of Islam could put an end to it in an instant if they demanded that the fanatic imams be removed from office as did the catholics in their recent sex scandal.
[edit on 9/19/2006 by shots]


I don't think that Muslim churches work the same way as the RC Church does where there is a Hierarchy and Priests have people above them that have the power to remove them from office. I would imagine the attendees of the Mosque would be the ones to do such a thing , much like the Evangelicals here can "Fire" their Pastors.

Pie



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 10:28 AM
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If moderate muslims are not being heard and they actually want to, all they need to do is have a large enough protest against the fanatical islamofacists.

If they stand up enmass the rest of the world will hear.

The problem is the few that do.....are either killed or threatened.

If the moderate muslims do not believe in the fanatical teachings THEY THEN HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO STAND UP AGAINST THE FANATICS!

What the moderate muslims need to do is have a tiennamin (sp) square incident....where that lone man stood up to the tanks.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by ferretman2]



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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geek101,

You are the first Muslim that I have read in many threads voice the opinion that you do. That you are the only one gives me some pause, but there are others that I may have missed. But I really appreciate your speaking up.

I think what many people are despairing of is that, at least in the US, there are many counter protests to many issues. You don't have a radical Christian pro-life group protest at an abortion clinic, without oppostion protesters. Maybe it is a cultural issue, but the lack of real movement in the streets can seem like tacit approval to those of us who are used to seeing opposition. Of course here, if as a non-Muslim I were to protest the protests in the other parts of the world, CAIR and various other groups would come down on me like a hammer. It is that shadowy threat of civil repercussions that also has many of us pissed off as well. In some parts of the world it is physical threats. Here it is the threat of litigation. Either way we are getting hemmed into not being able to say openly what many are thinking, and when you see those two strategies working across the world, it is hard not to see it as a conspiracy.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 11:33 AM
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A different topic but similar scenario, this reminds me of the way right wing extremists hijacked the British and English flags, in fact hijacked anything iconic and British and made it their exclusive reserve, for a time a lot of immigrants and their second generation sons and daughters associated the flag with something threatening and oppressive. There wasn't an immediate move by moderate Brits to reclaim it either, that doesn't mean they tacitly supported extremists, it took time to reestablish the flag back to it's proper place, that is the banner of ALL the people in these islands, not just the european whites. I think moderate British Muslims are in the majority and do speak out against hardline radical elements within their faith but, like the naughty obnoxious child who garners more attention than the well behaved one, people tend to overlook the voice of moderation when the nutters are screaming.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 03:54 PM
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Just to let folk know that West Bank (palestine) churches are being bombed still.

www.chicagotribune.com...

No mention in the mass media in the UK. Our local RC and CoE church was vandalised, but obviously it is just bored teenagers up to no good, yeeah right. Other way round, and its race hate!

the fanatics are fuelling islamophobia, they must be stopped. How can one be angry about comments taken out of context, over the relationships between Islam, violence, revenge and intolerance, and then launch a response involving violence and vengefullness. Its beggars belief! I feel sorry for these people.

I'll admit that all faiths spread their beliefs by the sword in the dark and middle ages. But to me, the only religion doing so, in this 'liberal' modern world filled with science, dialogue and diplomacy (years after the tug of war over Jerusalem), are false OR true representatives of the Islamic faith. I just don't know what to think.

Whatever Muslims think about the war on terror, rest assured it isn't religiously motivated, it is not to spread Christianity. Our leaders are not Christian. And lets just say the Pope isn't exactly a unifying force between the two denominations of Christians!



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by ferretman2


What the moderate muslims need to do is have a tiennamin (sp) square incident....where that lone man stood up to the tanks.

[edit on 19-9-2006 by ferretman2]


It won't make a difference.

The main problem is people assume that muslims are only one group of people or they belive that muslims are either sunni or shia.

Both are wrong.

Sunni and Shia are just groupings of muslims where each one has many many different subgroups and each of those will have many different sub groups.

Like Pieman said above the mosque system does not work the same way as other religons becuase the muslims are not what would be described as an orginised religon.

Anybody that can afford to build a mosque builds a mosque and are free to preach whatever they want becuase they don't need any schooling or certificates to prove they know what they are talking about. So you can have a person that doesn't know 1 word of the quran in charge of a mosque.

Also the islamic system for building mosques is different from other religons in the sense no mosques are linked. For example you could have 2 sunni mosques in a single street which have no connection to each other religously because there is no Hierarchy or orginisational system for a mosque/imam system.

Also people don't understand the following so i will breifly explain this. Isloam is not just based around the quran but is based also on hadeeths(saying of the prophet and other people) and fatwas. What people don't realise is that different islamic groups follow different hadeeths and fatwas. And becuase of this there are major differences between each schools and it's followers.

Muslims groups seriously do not listen to each other. The west needs to stop treating muslims as one groups and need to realise overall there are thousands and thousands of sub groups between muslims. They need to be treated as independant groups rather then labelled under one banner of Islam. They should be talked to on a individual basis.

Also muslims do not care about Imam's like the western world thinks. Anybody who owns a mosque for some reason automatically becomes an islamic "leader" while no muslim even listen to them. People need to understand the following 99% of the people in the local neighbourhood don't even know the names of there local "leaders". Anybody that owns a mosque automatically becomes the leader but it doesn't mean that they actually sway the opinion of the local muslims either.

This is the problem America suffered in Iraq. They got the go-ahead for occupation from the main Shia and Sunni clerics but when they invaded local sunni groups attacked the American's. What they didn't understand is that Sunni and Shia are just banners in which thousands of sub-groups operate.

And these are not just minor differences becuase above i explained hadeeths and fatwas also come into play. The majority of islamic law is different becuase of this from group to group thats why there are no 2 muslim groups that follow the same law. All muslims are the same upto the Quran but once Hadeet and fatwas are added there are major differences.

I will give a few examples. The Sharia law in Saudia Arabia say's that women are not allowed to drive car's becuase it is against Islam. The Sharia law in Iran say's that women are allowed to drive cars and it's okay with islam. Sharia law in Saudi say's genetic engineering is against islam but Sharia law in Iran says that it is allowed and is supported by Islam.

Do you see the differences.

You are by now thinking what was the point of this post.

Let me explain. If any muslim group protests it will not effect any other muslim group becuase they do not follow the same schools but only effects the schools within there own teachings.

So if Sunni protest it will make no difference to Whabbi schools. Sunni marches make no difference to sullafist schools. Hanafi make no difference to dawoodi schools etc....

What people don't understand is that these extreamist for example al-qeada follow a special school know as sullafi/whabbi islamic mosques they don;t recognise regular sunni's are muslims. So if normal muslims have a protest they don't give a # becuase it's not a part of there religous school.

The best way to deal with extreamist groups is to change there schools or to ban them rather then to get other muslims to protest becuase it will not effect them otherwise.

There schools and teachings must be modifyed internally rather then external pressure from groups that they do not recognise as muslims anyway.

i hope that helps explain the problem within muslims groups and why they haven't been able to stop terrorism and why they never will.



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