Saddam makes a good point., page 1
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reply posted on 3-11-2002 @ 09:01 PM by Thomas Crowne
Sure, I got ideas. I also have an understanding that what he's done equates to a little more than throwing rcocks at birds. There are ten's of thousands of dead people in his own country, killed by his chemical agents, that amount to more than birds.

He both sponsors terrorists financially and with thraining, and these terrorists then go and kill other human beings that have nothing to do with any sense of warfare.
Hussein lost a war a little over a decade ago and has not lived up to the obligations that bought peace for him and has allowed his people to suffer for this, and now tries to make us look like the cause of their suffering, while he ensures that his military is maintained and fed. Those suffering citizens amount to more than birds. No, there are more than birds that are being aimed for by Hussein.

As far as our "democracy" (I'm no fan of this democracy notion but prefer that we go back to the republican form the founding fathers had in mind but was destroyed by the Civil War) now, prior to 9-11 as opposed to pre-9-11, that is not really a point at all; just senseless rhetoric aimed at knee-jerks who don't look to far past the words.
The nation always changes a bit when it goes into a wartime footing; nothing new here.The only thing that makes this time a little different is that the length of the war can't easily be determined as the battlelines aren't even easily recognized, and that the American people are more ignorant of their rights as well as obligations than they ever have been in the history of this nation. This ignorance makes it easier for a government to take away what was Divinely given. That, however, is the citizens' fault and nobody else's.


reply posted on 4-11-2002 @ 10:55 AM by quiet one
can anyone give any evidence that saddam has done anything - anything at all - since the gulf war to warrant his removal from power?

if you say: "weapons inspectors", i point you to:

"Iraq has already said it will allow UN weapons inspectors to return under the terms of existing UN resolutions."

news.bbc.co.uk...

if you say: "weapons of mass destruction", i say get the weapons inspectors in there right now, stop pussy-footing around with this new resolution.

if you say "gased the kurds", i say he did that bloody ages ago, and he's suffered sanctions ever since.

anything else?

- qo.


reply posted on 4-11-2002 @ 11:26 AM by Thomas Crowne
Q-O, I can't help your not understanding the history of this nation or not having researched beyond the cursory and revised history classes. What a shame you can't even respond without using profanity as a crutch to look, well, I'm not sure what look it is you're going for.

If you've not seen fit to keep up with what has been going on with Hussein the last decade (which is evident from the ignorance of your postings) I do not feel inclined to spend the next few days catching you up to speed.

Lupe, he is a democratically elected leader, huh? Yeah buddy, I saw alot of people challenge him, didn't you? One of the most paranoid leaders ever, if he even thinks there's a reason to believe you aren't loyal to him you are killed. No, I can't imagine anyone running against him.
I'm sure you are being sarcastic in saying he is a democratically elected leader.

BTW, Quiet One, you may want inspectors to just go and look in the areas that Hussein says are ok to look at, but that farce isn't worth the time or money and won't stop any aggression from the madman. You certainly understand this, so why are you interested in seeing him have capabilities to not only kill his own, and kill his neighbors, but also supply terrorists with weapons that will kill innocent people abroad? Do you feel you are in a seafe location and have nothing to lose if my family is killed?

Also, where is all the degradation of my freedoms? Is it because some knee-jerk idiots no longer allow me to carry my pocket knife or nail clipper onboard a plane? I hardly think ol' Ben and Tom are turning in their graves over that.


reply posted on 4-11-2002 @ 11:49 AM by Illuminati-NWO
Stuff your democracy, US is no longer considered a democracy and I have the facts to prove this, denying these claims is admitting you are narrowminded and unwilling to accept the facts, rather willing to live on in that glass prison you call a democracy.

Its been long due to post some current myths that are playing in most people's mindsets.

palestinechronicle.com...

www.voanews.com...

Top 10
1 - Finland, Iceland, Norway, Netherlands
5 - Canada
6 - Ireland
7 - Germany, Portugal, Sweden
10 - Denmark

Whats that I hear you say, all European countries in the top ten? What place did the land of the free achieve? A measly 17th place. Wanna know why it only got the 17th place? Apparently the US likes to stick its journalists in jail when they don't want to release their sources of information hence the lower placement on the list.

How's that for 'freedom' of press?

Quote:

The US' 17th place was lowered because of the number of journalists arrested for refusing to reveal their sources, the report says.
EU member countries score well in the list - except for Italy, ranked 40th.


Needless to explain why Italy scores so low on the list!

Some more links on this particular subject :

www.ifj.org...

www.indexonline.org...

www.usatoday.com...

civilliberty.about.com...


Next example is the Patriot Act, you can all read up on it by downloading this pdf file. www.alta.org...

Here are only a few of the paragraphs but this document holds so much more of all these wonderfull rights and duties ya'll seem to love so much.


Quote:

SEC. 1008. FEASIBILITY STUDY ON USE OF BIOMETRIC IDENTIFIER
SCANNING SYSTEM WITH ACCESS TO THE FBI
INTEGRATED AUTOMATED FINGERPRINT IDENTIFICATION
SYSTEM AT OVERSEAS CONSULAR POSTS AND
POINTS OF ENTRY TO THE UNITED STATES.



Quote:

SEC. 355. AUTHORIZATION TO INCLUDE SUSPICIONS OF ILLEGAL
ACTIVITY IN WRITTEN EMPLOYMENT REFERENCES.


Lets look at what amendments it is in violation of :

Violates the First Amendment freedom of speech guarantee, right to peaceably assemble provision, and petition the government for redress of grievances provision; it violates the First Amendment to the Constitution three times. More on this below.

Violates the Fourth Amendment guarantee of probable cause in astonishingly major and repeated ways. The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution reads: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons of things to be seized." The Patriot Act, now passed and the law of the land, has revoked the necessity for probable cause, and now allows the police, at any time and for any reason, to enter and search your house ó and not even tell you about it.

Violates the Fifth Amendment by allowing for indefinite incarceration without trial for those deemed by the Attorney General to be threats to national security. The Fifth Amendment guarantees that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law, and the Patriot Act does away with due process. It even allows people to be kept in prison for life without even a trial.

Violates the Sixth Amendment guarantee of the right to a speedy and public trial. Now you may get no trial at all, ever.

Violates the Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment).

Violates the 13th Amendment (punishment without conviction).

It gives the government the authority to eavesdrop on conversations without a court order and can do so wether it be electronic, digital or spoken conversations through bugging, wiretapping,...
You can get arrested without any chance for a court or the right to a lawyer can be dismissed, you can be kept indefenitely until they decide it is OK to clear you.

Read through following articles,

www.eff.org...

www.commondreams.org...

truthout.com...

www.ancient-heritage-magazine.com...

www.alta.org...

Be sure to read the EFF link cause it describes pretty nicely and thorough just what this Patriot Act is about.

Seems like we have to call in someone who can definitely sort this whole mess out. How about this one for instance...?

members.shaw.ca...

What these points show is that America is slowly becoming the land of the free(dom-impaired)

More myths will be following soon and will be revealed for what they really are namely MYTHS.

So Ultra-Phoenix, you narrowminded silly excuse for a human being, keep living this lie you have been living all your life. I for one am smarter then that, if all people woke up for a change our futures would be much better.

Sincerely,

Illuminati-NWO
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