Obsession: The Movie Exposing Radical Islam

Originally posted by Guerilla
Melbourne_Militia

You give very little credit to these people, you seem to take em as dumb monkey's!
All you have said in your last post is that the arab people cant live without the west, that if you do this then this will happen to them.
Thats the typical thinking of a spoiled people.

That's not what he said at all, read the post again please.

Instead of looking at what happend thousands of years ago try to look at what the west has done yesterday and threatening to do to other arab nations tomorrow...then try and put yourself in there shoes and see what you come up with.

Dont you think that maybe the media is putting all this negative images to us in order for us to feel that the jobs of our leaders are being done to protect us thus electing that same leader again and again for his/her benefit...for him/her to gain more riches from us?

Whether the media televises the images or not, the fact remains that these extremists are doing this, and they want to expand the carnage to all non-Muslims. This is a fact. It seems you're using the media and/or history to excuse this? There is no excuse.

What many people are failing to see is that our media does not cover this. American television is not showing us these facts. I am not sure if it is for fear of retaliation or because the government is leaning on them not to show it. The Radical Islam problem is growing larger each month. People are failing to recognize that they have issued WAR against America in 1993 and again in 1998. They believe that they are in a battle. They are only strengthening and growing their hatred. People all over the world need to recognize what is happening. Open up your eyes and see what is occurring. I know it is shocking and almost hard to believe, but it is happening and it will get worse.

As far as what melbourne militia states, he is correct on many levels. Most people don't understand the ramifications of pakistan and that the power there sits on the edge of a cliff ready to be pushed off. Osama is most likely living among the Mullahs, whom the Pakistan government and US soldiers will not interrupt. Noone will go into their territory for fear that an uprising will occur and that the existing government will be overthrown. Then guess what happens. Whos hands do you think those Nukes end up in. His scenario of a spreading revolt across multiple countries is an accurate one.

Originally posted by Astygia

Originally posted by Guerilla
Melbourne_Militia

You give very little credit to these people, you seem to take em as dumb monkey's!
All you have said in your last post is that the arab people cant live without the west, that if you do this then this will happen to them.
Thats the typical thinking of a spoiled people.

That's not what he said at all, read the post again please.

Instead of looking at what happend thousands of years ago try to look at what the west has done yesterday and threatening to do to other arab nations tomorrow...then try and put yourself in there shoes and see what you come up with.

Dont you think that maybe the media is putting all this negative images to us in order for us to feel that the jobs of our leaders are being done to protect us thus electing that same leader again and again for his/her benefit...for him/her to gain more riches from us?

Whether the media televises the images or not, the fact remains that these extremists are doing this, and they want to expand the carnage to all non-Muslims. This is a fact. It seems you're using the media and/or history to excuse this? There is no excuse.

Sorry i didnt mean his whole post...but sections of it!

They are doing exactly what you would do when an enemy trys to controll you.
You think the west cops a beating from them from time to time...see what the us government does to them everyday...
This is an outcry of the poor, dont ignor it, dont be fooled by those that controll all.

Tell me..whats happeing now in Iraq as we type to each other?
The only way to view that contry now is by switching on the TV right?
Tune it to see CNN, fox news or what not?

If u feel that the west is doing a good job in going in there and blowing up homes and killing more people...then dont expect the enemy to just sit there and take it...to turn the other cheek...expect total rebelion...you kill my family ill kill yours.
Thats how it works my friend

There is no excuse

Yes there is

Originally posted by Guerilla

Sorry i didnt mean his whole post...but sections of it!

They are doing exactly what you would do when an enemy trys to controll you.
You think the west cops a beating from them from time to time...see what the us government does to them everyday...
This is an outcry of the poor, dont ignor it, dont be fooled by those that controll all.

Tell me..whats happeing now in Iraq as we type to each other?
The only way to view that contry now is by switching on the TV right?
Tune it to see CNN, fox news or what not?

If u feel that the west is doing a good job in going in there and blowing up homes and killing more people...then dont expect the enemy to just sit there and take it...to turn the other cheek...expect total rebelion...you kill my family ill kill yours.
Thats how it works my friend

Unfortunately, that's not how things are playing out. I've served in Iraq, and your argument is a straw man. Suicide bombers kill more Iraqis than coalition troops. So I guess the justification here is "you kill my family, I kill my neighbors"? Because that's how it's happening.

There's no excuse for killing innocents; if you believe killing innocents is justified in any way, you're wrong.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Astygia]

Astygia,

Could you tell me abit about your Iraq experience? I'm interested in a serving or ex-serving persons point of view as opposed to what the media feeds us. How different is the truth from what you saw to what is reported?

Have you heard of any US or coalition "atrocities" or rumours among troops of these occurences if they have happened at all?

Im not saying that it does go on, but war is hell as most people know, and when no one is watching strange things can happen.

Either way, I just hope we can get the #$#$ out of there soon before our troops get caught in a mid-east bucket with no way of scurrying out of there.

Originally posted by Astygia

Originally posted by Guerilla

Sorry i didnt mean his whole post...but sections of it!

They are doing exactly what you would do when an enemy trys to controll you.
You think the west cops a beating from them from time to time...see what the us government does to them everyday...
This is an outcry of the poor, dont ignor it, dont be fooled by those that controll all.

Tell me..whats happeing now in Iraq as we type to each other?
The only way to view that contry now is by switching on the TV right?
Tune it to see CNN, fox news or what not?

If u feel that the west is doing a good job in going in there and blowing up homes and killing more people...then dont expect the enemy to just sit there and take it...to turn the other cheek...expect total rebelion...you kill my family ill kill yours.
Thats how it works my friend

Unfortunately, that's not how things are playing out. I've served in Iraq, and your argument is a straw man. Suicide bombers kill more Iraqis than coalition troops. So I guess the justification here is "you kill my family, I kill my neighbors"? Because that's how it's happening.

There's no excuse for killing innocents; if you believe killing innocents is justified in any way, you're wrong.

[edit on 20-9-2006 by Astygia]

If the people of iraq had the guided missiles and advanced weaponry as you guys..do you think they would target you??

Maybe you can answer me one question...from your expericances in iraq and ONLY from your experiance alone..why are these people targeting eachother...whats the reason, please dont give me an answer from your sargent or CNN new's...purly from your experiance only?

Are they the savages the media makes them out to be?

Thanks god that we don't have many extremists in US.

Guess what will happen in US when local radicals (from within US) will start terror. The way they are showing hate towards west in arab world, there are chances that radicals from within US will start bombing or trying to hurt us. you cannot fight terrorists in your own land & you can never defeat terror on your own land. Ask Russia, India and other parts of world.

I just wish that all this hate towards each other ends and people live peaceful life without any weapons.


I don't know whether its good or bad that we don't get chance to see what arab television airs. However i do not want that to be aired here as those speaches/ pictures can turn any radical into terrorist.

[edit on 21-9-2006 by netscape]

Originally posted by Melbourne_Militia
Astygia, Could you tell me abit about your Iraq experience...

I've seen my share of awful things, and I've never witnessed buddies committing atrocities. But that doesn't mean they never do; as much as I'd prefer not to believe it, we've all heard the media publicizing those who've committed war crimes. If they truly did it, there is no excuse.

If the people of iraq had the guided missiles and advanced weaponry as you guys..do you think they would target you??

Maybe you can answer me one question...from your expericances in iraq and ONLY from your experiance alone..why are these people targeting eachother...whats the reason, please dont give me an answer from your sargent or CNN new's...purly from your experiance only?

Are they the savages the media makes them out to be?

Their technological limitations are beside the point. Nothing forces these people to kill their own civilians, or any civilians for that matter. But they do, sometimes because a particular tribe is supporting Americans, or just because they're a different tribe.

Are they savages? The extremists, the people that blow themselves up, blow schools up, behead people...Yes, they are. If America used the same tactics, we would probably be a smoking crater by now.

Last time I checked we weren't teaching the children and people that Jews drink our blood and cut the throats of Christian children to use their blood in Matza. I don't see 3 year olds broadcast on our TVs calling Jews dogs and apes and saying that God wants them dead.

They are raising a Nazi-like regime of brainwashed children over there. This is not what the good people of the Muslim faith need associated with them. It is a gross misinterpretation of a religion.

The depths of the extremist movement in Islam are frightening. The fact that they are teaching their children to hate is sick. I do believe that somthing should be done about terrorists and extremists.

I can't say that agree with the WOT if it is going to include "preemptive attacks". Pre-emptive attacks are not the ways a democracy should present itself.
Someone please tell me what Iraq had to do with the WOT. I think the attack on Iraq only caused the hate to boil.

Also I think Israel should have never been put where it was, that is what created the anger. Israel could have been put anywhere. But that is in the past and its a whole nother issue that can't even be changed.

My sollution to calm the hate nd end the terrorism is simple.
I think changing Islam oppinion should be done by controlling the Arab media and propaganda... and thats it. No invasions, death, blood.. just simply gain control of what they see.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Techsnow]

Originally posted by Techsnow

Also I think Israel should have never been put where it was, that is what created the anger. Israel could have been put anywhere. But that is in the past and its a whole nother issue that can't even be changed.

[edit on 22-9-2006 by Techsnow]

I jave heard when the United Nations was discussing where to put Israel back after the war, they actually considered a vast area of land in outback Australia, North-Western Western Australia if I remember correctly, and even thou this area was largely unhinhabited, and probably suit the Israeli's the best, it would not have suited those behind the scenes manipulating world affairs. Can you imagine? How would it then work with trying to stir up anti-Israeli sentiment amongst the arabs? it wouldn't for it would not have bothered them.

But Israel being where it is, at the holy crossroads of three religions was always going to be a boiling pot of tension and would work in the favour of those one world government types. For you could almost guarantee that at any time, the arabs would be livid with the Israelis and it keeps the fires burning for another day when a war is needed to be facilitated.

[transfered from closed thread]

I'm watching this right now...

Although I'm not finished yet, I feel compelled to make a couple comments.

Firstly, I'm finding it all very one sided. There's little mention about the fact that Islam has been visiously attacked over and over in our world's history. At one time, it was a gospel of peace and love until it was taught hate and death by rampaging Crusaders.

I'm not saying I support any violent extreamist organization, but it's important to remember that there is always two sides to every story.

Anyone seen Jesus Camp?

Secondly, all the radical Islamic talking points presented as media clips have been translated by MEMRI.
This group is a self styled information outlet of middle eastern media and information, but has long been critisized as a source of anti-islamic propaganda.

Vincent Cannistraro, a former counterintelligence official with the CIA, said that MEMRI "are selective and act as propagandists for their political point of view, which is the extreme-right of Likud [...]. They simply don't present the whole picture." [7] Cannistraro claims he was asked to join MEMRI, but he refused "because I saw this was capped by Israeli intelligence and because it was too political."[7]

Hussein Ibish, a spokesman for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee comments that "There is of course some horrific stuff in the Arab press, but one tends to forget that the American press can also be very nasty. Memri performs a useful function but unfortunately they have a pro-Israel, right-wing agenda."

Wikipedia entry for MEMRI

The fact that they are using translations from this source undermines much of the documtary's credibility.

Well, I finished watching that video and am ready to give my overall impressions.

I think I can sum them of quite simply:

What a horribly one sided view. There was no actual information present. It was ALL opinion and speculation without even the barest of researched facts.

I was particularly un-impressed by the compairisons between extreamist Islam and the Nazi movement. Talk about compairing apples to firehydrants! The only thing these two movements have in common is that neither like Jewish people very much (ok, that's an understatment... it was supposed to be).

The Nazi movement was a technicly legit governmental party that used a wide group of people as a scapegoat to inspire fear and distract the masses from their real objectives. They used apologist tactics and disinformation to hide their grabs for land and ecconimic control of the world.

Radicalized Islam is rather forthright in their propaganda. They want the infidals destroyed for their past an present crimes against their people/sociaty. They are unapoligetic about this. They do not attempt to spin it any further than that.

On the other hand, we currently DO have a large quasi-legit government that has been caught lying and putting out false information in order to invade ecconomic and stratigicly important areas while using a large group of people as scapegoats to distract the masses from their goals.

To state it bluntly, the US has more in common with Nazi germany than radicalized Islam does. They have made up a group for the masses to fear (the broad label "Terrorists"), the have openly lied to the entire world (Iraq's WMDs), and have seised control over previously sovren nations.

PLEASE NOTE: None of this excuses or justifies the actions of violent radicals (in any form). I am mearly pointing out that the content of this film should be dissmissed as propaganda for the Neo-Con agenda. Since it has no information content and even the opinions/compairisons an easily be debunked, it SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY ANY THINKING PERSON.

Originally posted by DeusEx
Scary isn't the word.

But then again, we don't see the stuff from Obsession much on the nightly news, do we? We don't see generations raised to hate. We don't see it from either side, and I'd be more than willing to guess that in the next ten years, that the fanatics are going to rise in the US, in the Middle East (more so than they already are) and then, well...we're screwed. Hard. Right through the pants. Nuclear war, scorched earth policy, whatever it takes on both sides.

And I'll be getting ready until then, to rabbit off to the Saguenay until the destruction receeds.

DE

just got thru watching the clip and you said it, we're screwed. the next ten years probably not that long. i say we last untill 2012. this problem we have on this planet is getting worse by the day it seems like. this clip is either total bullcrap propoganda and there arent that many after us and hopefully thats the case or its real. why would someone put this kind of stuff on video for propoganda purposes? to get us to hate and fear them? if thats the case then that clip will do the job. but this clip and the news media propaganda or not is affecting every person on this planet. all nations are in this. all people. im afraid that its not gonna get better. if what this clip tells us is true then we have a serious problem. i mean if this place is really getting that out of control then we dont have much time. do the american people take this serious?? i mean this might get to a point were americans will be helpless to take care of themselves (depend on government and technology for everything)if another serious attack happens. what would people do if a few dozen suicide bombers started unloading out of vans in a crowded new york street. chaos. and it would spread across america. if a nuke or two went off somewhere in america MAJOR panic would set in. i dont know if many people in america have actually experienced intense panic.
god help us all

Originally posted by Funkydung
just got thru watching the clip and you said it, we're screwed. the next ten years probably not that long. i say we last untill 2012. this problem we have on this planet is getting worse by the day it seems like.

Originally posted by BitRaiser
Since it has no information content and even the opinions/compairisons an easily be debunked, it SHOULD NOT BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY BY ANY THINKING PERSON.

Don't swallow the line. Hooks really don't taste good.

So Bitraiser, are you saying that in fact there aren't thousands, even hundreds of thousands perhaps, of hardline Muslims who have been raised on hatred and wish to bring destruction to Jews and western nations? Perhaps this video is just a big lie? Is Nasrallah's encouragement of Muslims to kill Americans and Jews a lie too? MEMRI's behind it all, right?

Of course the video's one-sided; it's dealing with the extreme side of Muslim fanaticism. Just like any other "documentary" is one-sided in its focus.

I realize you're not defending these atrocities, your ending comment says as much, but the fact that they "don't put a spin on it" doesn't give them brownie points and doesn't make this film any less real. Obsession is obsession, wherever it falls.



[edit on 5-10-2006 by Astygia]

Originally posted by Astygia
So Bitraiser, are you saying that in fact there aren't thousands, even hundreds of thousands perhaps, of hardline Muslims who have been raised on hatred and wish to bring destruction to Jews and western nations? Perhaps this video is just a big lie? Is Nasrallah's encouragement of Muslims to kill Americans and Jews a lie too? MEMRI's behind it all, right?

I'm saying we don't honestly know how many radicalized Muslims/Islamics there may ot may not be. This video tosses out some numbers, but without a single shread of information to back up their (alarmingly high) figures.

I'm saying that MEMRI is NOT a source that should be trusted as they are well known for using mis-translations and out of context comments to further their own agenda.

Of course the video's one-sided; it's dealing with the extreme side of Muslim fanaticism. Just like any other "documentary" is one-sided in its focus.

I'm saying that it is full of opinion and speculation, but doesn't present a SINGLE piece of hard evidence.

That's not a documentary, that's propaganda.

A Documentary attempts to educate, to inform, to help people to understand complex problems. This didn't do any of that. It just tries to scare the hell out of you.

I realize you're not defending these atrocities, your ending comment says as much, but the fact that they "don't put a spin on it" doesn't give them brownie points and doesn't make this film any less real. Obsession is obsession, wherever it falls.

That I'll agree with.

I don't have a problems with the idea of presenting some information on what's going on with the radical extreamists. It's good to know what's going through people's heads. It's always wise to educate people on the differences in social culture and attempt to explain the history of events that would lead up to such a vulger acceptance of death and suffering.

This video simply doesn't do that.

As for my comment about their not attempting to spin their fanatical hatered of the Jewish people, that was only ment within the context of the video's compairison with the Nazi movement. I was attempting to explain why that is a fundamentally BAD compairison. As I said, it's like compairing apples and firehydrents. It's just a non-starter. A much better compairison would have been with the Crusades as those were based on a "holy war" that had no rational basis other than conflicting ideologies. Of cource, they wouldn't bring that up because it was the Christians doing unto the Islamics exactly what they are trying to make you fear Islam for now.

Incedently... I caught something very interesting that puts another big hole in the credibility of this documentary.

During the segment where they are showing Muslims celibrating the fall of the WTC, they are attempting to depict it as a wide spread phenominom. Odd, then, that the same old woman should show up in no less than three of the clips!

If these celibrations were as far-flung as we are led to believe, why is it that they couldn't show more than what could be a single (possibly staged) gathering?

I would take some screenshots to demonstrate, but unfortunatly my video setup produces nothing but distorted oddness whenever I try to screencapture. See if you can find what I'm talking about.

The bottom line is that I watched this hoping to become more informed, but instead I found myself being subjected to fearmongery. Where I was seeking education, I found igonrance.

I honestly hope that someone can produce something better than this on the subject.

I honestly looked but couldn't find it...I do have to agree that any documentary of mobs is easy to exaggerate by showing different angles of the same mob. Any chance that you made a note of the time segments depicting the reappearing woman?

More propaganda.

Im muslim and I dont want to kill all of you.....I REAPEAT....i DONT want to kill all of you.

I challenge every1 here to prove to me that Im a terorist or that Im a threat to anyone.

You guys are being filled with propganda everyday and this is nothing more than that.

Its really funny how people act like they know so much about the middle east when they havent even lived here.

Humans are more stupid than i thought.

i just find it so humrous at the amount of ignorant fools there are out there
i bet most of these people dont even know more then 1 muslim but just make their minds up from one sided TV shows, if this was the case then all the hate that is filled in the minds and hearts of muslim nations are well founded of the united statess from one sided broadcasts they recieve.

here we see muslims are the threat
i ask this compared to how many people the united states has killed during the last few decades compared to a muslim extremeist whos the bigger threat?

couple of thousend disorganised group of people who can only attack using them selves and crude weapons

or a nation that has used its milatry strength to dictate to other countries and use that power to feed extremsist for their own goals and to attack soverign countries for the soil purpose of preserving their power and dominence
this is the same country with the power to destroy the planet countless times
which has also the only nation to be responsible for over 200,000 deaths with such weapon and the only country to use it.

so here it is for you americans those who seem to think its ok to kill millions of muslims (also aimed at the fool who mentioned using nukes on suvilians)

from muslims and non muslims your country is the greatest threat to world peace
your country has undermined goverments world wide to put puppets in place and when that failed they become dicators, your country has armed and supplied groups to fight secondry fights for you so you dont have to do most of the dirty work and when they had done there jobs they became terrorists,




so keep on shouting muslims are the greatest threat when it comes down to it
its the united states and its lust for keeping its power that is the greatest threat.