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Jesus Camp. (How can they do this to children?)

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posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by Funkydung
satan is very swift in his thinking no? on the one hand he has one part of the world beliving that the other part is evil while the other thinks the same about the other side of the world. his plan is very obvious. have us killing each other because of LACK OF KNOWLEDGE in the very thing that could bring us all together. but its all just stories centuries old right? gaah. once we are on the brink of extiction because of our slaughter over whos satan and whos not he will show up and we all know what that means. the road to peace. brainwashing? yeah its involved daily and has been for longer than you think. some of the newer tools for that is schools, tv, internet and radio. the age old story is nothing new to us. the battle between good and evil. all we hear about is satan and evil. but when it comes to the other guy nobody wants to talk. and im not talking about "God." dare a say the J name. noooooo not that name!!!
thats the name that will doom us all! dont say it!! get a grip people.

i havent watched the video yet but im going to. what i can tell you to do is compare what these people are doing with what christ has said for his children to do. do you know what he has said or are you ignorant of his words. if you really know the scriptures then you know your answer. and oh yeah ive heard the same ol same ol "the bible has been re written" so many times im about to puke by people who have no clue as to what is even in the book or even how to read it. but its ok i guess i can take some more of it because after all it goes beyond the physical realm.

i think once people realize that religion is the problem we could stop the slaughter but its not ment to be. the leaders of religion twist the scriptures for their gain and the masses follow. know the truth and the truth will set you free. not 20% of the truth or 90% of it....religion is not the answer.



[edit on 16-9-2006 by Funkydung]


A large portion of the world is Jewish, Christian, or Muslim.. how ever not the entire world is made of these 3 religions under one god.

Hindu's, Budist, these have billions of followers combined and guess what?

They think your all nuts.

Aside from that, there are far more actual practising Muslims then Christians, because Christian society has become a secular society, they no longer have the comanding numbers that they once had, and you hear all this Christians vrs Muslim BS that you beleive it, when in reality not as many Americans as you may think practise their relgion and have no idea about the contrast of the two ideologies at war here.

Christians brainwash because it is the only way you can literally force someone to beleive, to present things as fact, to from the start force it down their throats.

That is why I do not follow my own faith, and studied the differences between Christians and Jews and Muslims, and then the religions before them and the amazing simularities. Of course the study between the differences of protostants and the Mother Church is most amusing, the amazing little things they change and demand a new faith, just a few words here and there, recognize this and no longer that, all in the name to be different.

I see more often then not southern protestants indulging in these camps, and other varieties of them, "youth churches" - no offense but the one time I was misfortunate enough to have to experience that showed great faith and a certain interesting ignorance at the same time.

On the other hand, religion is the greatest part of our species, and we have had hundreds of gods and idols we have worshiped throughout time and they always evolve, always changing, and faith and belief is very important to some people.

When some parents have such a strong faith, usually lower middle class to poor families, they want their children to have that same faith. They send their children to camps not because they want them brainwashed for a certain reason or another, but because they believe it is essential for a proper raising, and in a sense that is correct.

Secular societies around the world are on the fall, the western world will eventually come to terms with one another, that we be religious or not, and the worst kind of enemy is one with god on his side, does not matter what god, he has a reason, a purpose and a drive. Secular societies are also seeing a cultural collapse, they are feeling the hurt of to many relgions, to many ethnicities, to many languages, to many people with out anything in common.

Are the camps bad? Well.. no they are not bad because they spread the word of god, a god, maybe not your god, but a god. As far as I know they are teaching them to lay their lives down for their faith, in the name of god for the honor of your god, a sacrifice which is not uncomon in our histories. They are not teaching children to run with knives, they are not teaching children to beat up kids at school, or to go on shooting rampages or drink the magic koolaid. It is a bible camp, and for that reason alone is not bad, how they approach it is up to question, should they not deliver all facts on all religions, especially the sister religions under the same god, and allow the children to decide for themselves. Of course you risk having more kids turn to Judaism, Islam, Buddism, Spiritualism, but you know what, you need to understand the world around you, you need to understand why people believe certain things for specific reasons, and to force Jesus down a childs throat is not an effective way of doing it, because they accept in blind ignorance because they are not aware of any other faith. Hard to say you truly belive in God if you do not recognize or ever even heard of another religion and their own mythologies.

Just my 2 cents.




posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 05:18 PM
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While this is disturbing in the U.S.A it's what the muslims do every day in theyre countries.

Name me a christiam country where islam is band?........
answer=none

Name me a muslim country where christianity is banned
answer at least 10

The Vatican.
Quite correct -- and for those of you not aware of it, the Vatican IS an independant nation. Yes, really.

As to nations where Islam is banned, we can start with China and go on to Cuba and so forth. There are a suprising number of countries where Christianity is the official state religion and other religions are controlled and banned.

Here's the current list on wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 05:50 PM
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They just had a story on this on ABC news. I was surprised that it would even be covered on the networks. It seems allot of people are a bit disturbed over it.

Good. They should be.



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 05:57 PM
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This appears to be Pentecostal, yes? Did anyone catch what denomination this is?



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 06:02 PM
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It looked like a Hitler Youth/Nazi Propaganda video. =|

Halfway through watching it I didn't want to watch further, but I made myself watch the rest.

It scared me.
One of the reasons why I'm agnostic. I wouldn't be surprised if in maybe 10 years we may be seeing radical Christianity with Christians acting in similar ways to Islamic terrorists.

Maybe thats a little farfetched, but with the way they are brainwashing these kids...



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Originally posted by kuhl

While this is disturbing in the U.S.A it's what the muslims do every day in theyre countries.

Name me a christiam country where islam is band?........
answer=none

Name me a muslim country where christianity is banned
answer at least 10


You've got a false comparison going there. A "christian nation" such as the US is a secular government paired with a strong christian presence, whereas the "muslim nations" are Islamic Theocracies. If you take a secular government and tack on a strong muslim presence, which is the type of country you should be comparing your "christian nations" to, you get Iraq. Now, if Iraq had a democratic government instead of a dictator, I think you'd find it would be very similar to the modern day US in the way the gov't goes about it's day to day routines.

The problem is not the religion. The problem is when the religion (or rather, the one guy at the top) is making decisions it shouldn't be making, ie, fair public policy. A theocracy can be just as dangerous as a dictatorship as they usually involve only one person (or entity) making all the decisions. The issue with a theocracy is that it's easier to overthrow a person than it is to overthrow an idea.



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by Valhall
Did anyone catch what denomination this is?


It's affiliated with the Christ Triumphant Church in Lee's Summit, MO. The church appears to be an independent Pentecostal church, since I couldn't find an affiliation on their site.

Cinema in Focus has a review that says that the film implies that all Evangelical groups believe as this small group of Pentecostals do. Which is, of course, untrue. Through family experience I'm familiar with several Pentecostal churches here in the South. This one is much more militant than any other church I've seen. So it really is a small minority of the churches in the US.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 12:51 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
Not saying anything, I was just saying that there is in fact a christian, actually... THEE christian CAPITAL, does NOT recognize other faiths....

my opinions are related to almost all protestant divisions of the Holly See.


Sorry to disagree with you here Rock but Vatican City is not the capital of Christianity... it is the capital of Catholicism.

And the Holy See is in charge of the Roman Catholic Church... he has absolutely nothing to do with Protestants.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 02:35 AM
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This is not only disturbing, but also dissapointing. Dissapointing that so much young potential is being thrown out by their selfish, ignorant, and shockingly brainwashed parents. What is even more unsettling is how Evangelics have had their god fearing hands in much of our government process.

What is unique today is that the radical religious right has succeeded in taking over one of America's great political parties. The country is not yet a theocracy but the Republican Party is, and they are driving American politics, using God as a a battering ram on almost every issue: crime and punishment, foreign policy, health care, taxation, energy, regulation, social services and so on.

How can the world ever learn to work together and stop killing unless we respect eachother equally? Religion permits such logic by creating lines between cultures and civilizations (Hence the war on Muslims (Err i mean terror). We have seen over the course of the past 5 years the type of ideologies present in our current administration.. Think Bush is an exception? What about Nixon (Evangelical) and his lovely little mess known as watergate.

We need to prevent people like this from filling our government positions. I beg people to wakeup and vote for people who worship reality and possibility instead of the preoccupation with deadly beliefs. Seperate religion and state to the fullest. No political leader should limit himself to politics within his beliefs. How dare these people speak the nature of god to the public with no shame.

Camps like these should not be allowed to exist, It takes a perfectly good mind and attempts to shut certain doors to different possibilities.
Agnosticism for a new earth is the only moral standpoint that can ensure the peaceful coexistance and control of one collective humanity.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 02:52 AM
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Here's the forum for you to post your thoughts on Evangelicals in the United States government : Politics@AboveTopSecret.com . Political content is on-topic there.

Back on topic : I see the film's propaganda content has already had effect : You are taking the example of one church in the Pentecostal movement and applying their radical beliefs to all evangelicals.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 03:18 AM
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Excuse me but I think that what I wrote is indirectly on topic. The things that children are taught at these camp will have a direct effect on the future of our politics. This is a discussion about the brainwashing of children in this country. Although I make pretty big conclusionst they are still accurately connected to the topic.

Just because you dont see the connection doesnt mean I should save my thoughts for some other thread.. Thanks for attempting to drown out my arguments with your biased viewpoint.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 03:24 AM
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Originally posted by mrwupy
I ran across a video tonight, about jesus camp. I honestly found it disturbing that adults would be asking children if they would give up their lives for Jesus.Here is the link:

Jesus camp

Maybe it's just me.

What are your thoughts on it?


You will believe in the savior or else.

We have ways of making you come to Jesus.




posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by Valhall
This appears to be Pentecostal, yes? Did anyone catch what denomination this is?


Not sure, but I thought I saw some kid having a seizure on the ground, while all the overweight women just sat around clapping.

I wonder if anyone called an ambulance?

[edit on 18-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 03:41 AM
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Originally posted by nephyx
The things that children are taught at these camp will have a direct effect on the future of our politics.


Actually, from my personal experience, I doubt they will have that much effect on politics as a group. Of all the kids I've known from Pentecostal/Charasmatic churches who are now adults, only a few are still in them. Most seem to leave the church entirely or go to a more "mainstream" denomination. I believe that's one reason the Pentecostal groups tend to be smaller.


Thanks for attempting to drown out my arguments with your biased viewpoint.


I'm biased? I was just pointing out that your lengthy statement was against evangelicals as a whole, rather than on the small group of Pentecostals that the thread is about.

In general, mainline evangelical denominations are much less radical. Believe me, my most exciting summer camp was much more boring than that one

Peace

[edit on 9/18/2006 by eaglewingz]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:07 AM
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Originally posted by kinglizard
I really don’t see any problems with having the children affirm the depth of their faith.


hmmm , my stock response here is :

at what age is a child really capable of making such decisions ?

in various countries we prohibit children under certain ages from , [ in no particular order ] - buying alcohol , cigarettes , sex , joining the armed forces , owning a fire arm , marriage , signing most legal contracts , entering into a credit / loan agreement . etc etc

so -

bearing in mind that children are often pressured into the choice and scale of their religious activity by parental / church pressure and " education " endeavors

how many children at " Jesus camp " have been told anything but demonising propaganda about the alternate faiths , which they should be free to explore , if they really have free will


[ the entire focus of this thread being " Jesus camp " and its hard sell " education " till they crack doctrine ]

do you still think that it [ an intense commitment to a religious devotion ] is entirely their own informed choice , made in light of all the facts , and without pressure or prejudice .?

i certainly do not

[edit: speil chekur is ma freind
]


[edit on 18-9-2006 by ignorant_ape]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:41 AM
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Originally posted by kuhl


While this is disturbing in the U.S.A it's what the muslims do every day in theyre countries.

Name me a christiam country where islam is band?........
answer=none

Name me a muslim country where christianity is banned
answer at least 10



You dont have to look too far back in history to see in " christian" countries where islam has been banned in the past. It's a fairly recent event to not have it banned.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 04:58 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
a christian, actually... THEE christian CAPITAL, does NOT recognize other faiths.


The Vatican is indeed a country unto itself. It also DOES have a representative at the United Nations.

www.stu.edu...
Cardinal Migliore is the Vatican 'Representative' and Observer for the United Nations. He DOES speak to the UN and DOES go to UN meetings, etc. I don't know about voting power ... I'll have to look that up.

www.answers.com...
Cardinal Arinzi was the Vatican official for interreligious dialog. Rome recongizes that there are othe religions on the planet and makes efforts in discussions with them.

Does Rome say these other religions are 'correct'? Of course not. No one on the planet says that someone else's religion is 'correct'. If they thought that way, then they would not be in the religion that they are.



[edit on 9/18/2006 by FlyersFan]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 05:10 AM
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Originally posted by In nothing we trust

Not sure, but I thought I saw some kid having a seizure on the ground, while all the overweight women just sat around clapping.

I wonder if anyone called an ambulance?

[edit on 18-9-2006 by In nothing we trust]


it wasn't a seizure, or at least more than likely it wasn't....
it's called being slain in the spirit....read up a little on the pentacostal movement if you are further interested.
I was in a pentecostal church for awhile in the south during the 80's. there was glimmers of a change coming back then. but, unless this little bit of a trailer is presenting the facts way off....nothing like this ever went on back then.
give your life for Jesus?? I thought we were susposed to life our lives for him. this little bit seems to lead one to think they these kids are being trained for warfare, and not of the spiritual kind. if so, well, I guess I interpreted those glimmers right back then, and the change coming wasn't too godly. sad really, to think that the wolf in sheep's clothing has led such a large part of the chirstian community so far astray....

a side note here....
I went to a pentacostal camp as a child also....the most excitement we had was the remenants of one of the huricanes came through and about destroyed the place...we did arts and crafts, enjoyed swimming in the cool lake waters, played games, and learned a little about the christian faith....we didn't learn anything about waging wars!

[edit on 18-9-2006 by dawnstar]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 05:21 AM
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I had the oppurtunity to see this film at a screening in Los Angeles...

I highly recommend it to anyone on this board. I thought the film was very well done in the sense that it maintains neutrality throughout - so much so, that people on both sides of the issue feel the film was a success. (ie. those who run the camp and those against the idea of the camp)

The story focuses on three or four children more than the others, plus the lady who runs the camp, and at various points throughout features a radio talk show host (sorry, don't know his name) who provides a counterpoint to the evangelical side. This guy comes at it from a political point of view, discussing what a force these evangelicals and their children are and will continue to be. At the end of the film, he even talks one on one on his show with the lady who runs the camp, who you've seen all film long in her environment.

Like I said, it feels very neutral which I think makes the film that much more powerful, and sets you right in Middle America, and has serious undertones around the political power of this group. Early in the film the radio guy is discussing Sandra Day O'Connor's resignation, and that leads towards the end, to a discussion of Alito's nomination.

Sorry about the vagueness, but it's been a month or so since I saw this. Again - highly recommended.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 06:02 AM
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I saw the trailer last week some time.

I agree with the other posts that this is not the way to bring up our children.
Brainwashing is exactly what comes to mind.



Things sure have changed since Jesus walked the Earth.

[religious sarcasm off]



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