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Side Point
Side Point
It’s these same people want you to give you’re DNA and Eye Scan to them in exchange for a British passport (how democratic). But you can trust them. And you WILL trust them with I.D cards (unless you want to be confined to this country forever; or more precisely the year 2013 when even non passport holders may be forced to have one.
Note: I bring up I.D cards not to talk about “stupid bits of DNA paper” directly; but because I find it reassuring that a ruling political party which cares so much about its people that it is even prepared to ensure the safety of people it disagrees with (i.e. protesters) (by stopping them from protesting) should also look out for the whole country enough to give us all a little piece of them; and them of us. This is all part of the wonderful, wonderful new world our Dear Tony has been democratically elected to give us (and pretty much has).
So what do you think fellow members of ATS? Do you think protesters should be banned from protesting under Health and Safety Legistation?
Or do you perhaps instead think it’s all a waist of money? That perhaps instead only pro-government demonstrators should be banned from protesting at outside Labour Party Conferences?
I'm happy to argue the government’s case all the way on this one. By the way I hate that ATS name; I wish it was something like NBFU (New Blair For Us) (it would be very futuristic, wouldn’t it?)
well, if it breaks out into a riot, then yes, i see their point..
but the chance of a riot is very,very low. however, certain protests should be banned to prevent riots breaking out (i think we remember all the May day protests)
Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
I meant Peacfull Protests not Protestors who are hell bent on causing Mayhem.
I should has said hope that clears that one up.
I remember themay day riots and I remember the Poll Tax riots, completely different from someone standing outside a conference having a peacefull demo.
Remeber also what happend the that O.A.P., who was a member of the labour party who forcefully removed from the conference for protesting.
That was disgusting.
its a no wonder peoplein this country have the hump not only with the Gov but also with poiliticians as a whole.
Protesters are vowing to go ahead with a peace camp in Manchester despite receiving a letter from the council leader outlining why it was banned.
Sir Richard Leese told campaign group Military Families Against The War its Albert Square camp was unacceptable on health and safety grounds.
But spokeswoman Rose Gentle said the group would defy council objections.
The manner of his removal was a little rough & OTT, I agree.
But he had no actual 'right' to disrupt that private meeting.
That is what those party conferences - of any political party - are, private meetings and neither he nor any other member of the public (or even members of the Labour party) has any 'right' to disrupt it just because he felt like it.
It was perfectly correct that he be asked to stop and then leave (and be thrown out if/when he refused) as any other nuisance would be at any other private meeting they stood up an tried to disrupt.
Just try mounting a protest at something else private and see how long your 'right' to mount a protest lasts, before being ordered to stop or physically ejected.
Part of the problem also does seem to be that sometimes people imagine they have 'rights' that they do not have and have never actually had
Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
That was not a private meeting.
he was a Labour Member.
He had every right to sit there peacefully protesting without being forceably removed.
What happens when Members of Unions protest, they gonna use the exact same manner, they used in removing this guy.
Hang on we put these so called people into power to protect our rights, i.e. to free speech and to peacefully demonstrate.
And what do they do they take our rights away from us. Is that not what a democracy is? The right to free speech and to demonstrate peacefully?
A political party conference is a private meeting
It still doesn't give him the right to disrupt the meeting.
I remember themay day riots and I remember the Poll Tax riots, completely different from someone standing outside a conference having a peacefull demo.
- Surely the point is that if it could be guaranteed to be confined to a small gathering making their point peacefully then no-one would have much of a problem with that, it's just that you just can't guarantee it being like that.
.....and once you start imposing the restrictions you get accussed of all sorts and that whole 'what a bunch of fascists' agenda starts being pushed etc etc.
Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
If Party Political Party Conferences are Private, then why are public tv cameras allowed into watch them live?
Still the way they handled that situation, was disgusting.
Originally posted by Liberal1984
If Labour has “true” commitment to democracy
then it should change the conference buildings location so that people may protest outside it.
the general rule for a meetings is that: “you don’t mouth of at public meetings; especially if the TV cameras are there”
Anyway isn’t it just like Labour to show contempt for civil liberties whenever it suits the purposes of government? This is demonstrated by the news that it’s banned the other expression of democracy (polite) (peaceful protest) outside its annual party conference.
However I'm sure the old man felt reason to shout the words “rubbish” at Jack Straw as he defended the indefensible (his Iraq policy).
Anyway isn’t it just like Labour to show contempt for civil liberties whenever it suits the purposes of government? This is demonstrated by the news that it’s banned the other expression of democracy (polite) (peaceful protest) outside its annual party conference.
Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
Labour have showing Contempt for this Populations Civil Liberties ever since they were voted into Gov.
"Obviously one pitfall is that this could adversely affect people's civil liberties,
without going through the judicial process. The judicial process is there for a reason
— to prevent the State from abusing its citizens," said Starnes.
2005 - On April 30th a funeral procession for civil liberties made an appearance at the annual
May Day march and rally organised by Lancaster and Morecambe TUC. Appropriately,
Lancaster’s May Day this year took place under the theme of civil liberties, but
most used this platform to promote various political parties, with the exception
of the anti-war contingent who used the occasion to point out the decline of our
civil liberties under the current government.
The cornerstone of a freedom established almost 800 years ago is now under threat from a Labour government.
Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
If your after a piss takin contest Sminkey im not rising to it. Keep going on attacking my comments I could give a rats a**.
Maybe you need to go back to supporting Labour since you seem to get all defensive everytime someone criticizes them.
Originally posted by Odium
Protesting is something that has been a part of British society, for well over 100 years.
If someone disagrees with you, you don’t shut your eyes and whistle till they go away and to hide behind the idea of “health and safety” is laughable.
and people can't argue that it is alright because they have given us other freedoms.
Sir Richard said the council had a "proud record" of supporting democratic protest and had opposed the war in Iraq.
"We have been liaising fully with organisers of the 'Stop The War' march to be held in Manchester on September 23, to the extent that they will be using our stage," he wrote.
"Indeed, one of the reasons for rejecting your request for a peace camp in Albert Square is that we will need the space to build that very staging.
We have also, with the police, identified a location close to the convention centre, where people will be able to visibly and audibly make their protests throughout the period of the conference."
He said the protest had not been rejected on security grounds, as had been claimed.
He went on: "We would like you to be reasonable in identifying a compromise that would be acceptable to us on health and safety and public liability grounds, and still allows you to exercise your right to protest."
But Rose Gentle, whose son Gordon died in Iraq in 2004, hit back, claiming the council had ignored them until media reports forced a reply.
No-one is banning protest Odium.
It is just being banned from certain areas.
Anyway isn’t it just like Labour to show contempt for civil liberties whenever it suits the purposes of government? This is demonstrated by the news that it’s banned the other expression of democracy (polite) (peaceful protest) outside its annual party conference.
The Labour government has done no such thing.
This has arisen solely because of the concerns of the Manchester City council (and also presumably because of what the police have told them).
The Labour government has done nothing to do with this, actually.
If Labour had any “true” commitment to democracy
Oh for God's sake get off of it lib.
What is that supposed to mean?
What's your definition of "a true commitment" or not, any chance of it being anything more than a little bit of personal rhetoric?
Why?
Why should they?