Humans Closest and Sex Mad Relative Under Threat of Extinction, page 3

reply to post by operation mindcrime

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No I am not mistaken... I have read quite a bit about the Bonobo over the years and that is why I noticed it. This is a very recent observation. I will see if I can find a source.

www.sciencedaily.com...

Despite 'Peacenik' Reputation, Bonobos Hunt And Eat Other Primates, Too...date 14 Oct.08

ScienceDaily (Oct. 14, 2008) — Unlike the male-dominated societies of their chimpanzee relatives, bonobo society—in which females enjoy a higher social status than males—has a "make-love-not-war" kind of image. While chimpanzee males frequently band together to hunt and kill monkeys, the more peaceful bonobos were believed to restrict what meat they do eat to forest antelopes, squirrels, and rodents.

Not so, according to a study, reported in the October 14th issue of Current Biology, a Cell Press publication, that offers the first direct evidence of wild bonobos hunting and eating the young of other primate species....

... "These findings are particularly relevant for the discussion about male dominance and bonding, aggression and hunting—a domain that was thought to separate chimpanzees and bonobos," said Gottfried Hohmann of the Max-Planck-Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology. "In chimpanzees, male-dominance is associated with physical violence, hunting, and meat consumption. By inference, the lack of male dominance and physical violence is often used to explain the relative absence of hunting and meat eating in bonobos. Our observations suggest that, in contrast to previous assumptions, these behaviors may persist in societies with different social relations."

Bonobos live only in the lowland forest south of the river Congo, and, along with chimpanzees, they are humans' closest relatives. Bonobos are perhaps best known for their promiscuity: sexual acts both within and between the sexes are a common means of greeting, resolving conflicts, or reconciling after conflicts.

The researchers made the discovery that these free-loving primates also hunt and kill other primates while they were studying a bonobo population living in LuiKotale, Salonga National Park, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. They had been observing the bonobos there for the last five years, which is what made the new observations possible.

Although Hohmann's team did have prior evidence for monkey hunting by bonobos, it came exclusively from indirect studies of fresh fecal samples—one of which contained the digit of a black mangabey. Yet, in the absence of direct behavioral observations, it was not entirely clear whether the bonobos had hunted the mangabey themselves or had taken it from another predator.

The researchers have now seen three instances of successful hunts in which bonobos captured and ate their primate prey. In two other cases, the bonobo hunting attempts failed. The data from LuiKotale showed that both bonobo sexes play active roles in pursuing and hunting monkeys. The involvement of adult females in the hunts (which is not seen in chimps) may reflect social patterns such as alliance formation and cooperation among adult females, they said.

I still regard them as our most respectable living relatives. I wish mine were so friendly.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover

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I stand corrected....live and learn
(make memo to myself : Grover knows what he is talkin about..... )

Very nice find.....

Ps: i DID see a pack of chimpansees .... really

[edit on 17/11/2008 by operation mindcrime]

reply to post by operation mindcrime

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Like I said its new news, just a month old but I read sciencedaily.com daily which is where I originally saw it... I just had to check and make sure after I was questioned about it. I thought it was more common news.

If you go to sciencedaily.com and type in Bonobo's in the search it will take you all sorts of articles about them.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by grover

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Bookmarked it.....

I really should be reading other things than just thread after thread here on ATS but it's so addictive.....(HELP... )

But to go back on thread. I really never thought bonobo's would do this. These are not the bonobo's i know.

where's the love

reply to post by smallpeeps

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I really don't see it as

Was their goal to denigrate the Bonobo?
I doubt that it was, though it is being used to do so

I see it as a fuller picture of them... no society, no animal, no individual is an ideal and all too often the Bonobo have been portrayed that way.

Thank you Grover I am surprised to say the least,

However I have some ideas about this, and need to get the article and check some stuff out in detail, I have done science long enough to check the sources directly before accepting anything as true and in totality.


There is much misinformation from Western scientists within nature for example was the Swedish I think, naturalist and his team who stated they had seen on such a field trip at the end of the last century that Lemmings all jump of cliffs en masse,

This was put into textbooks and accepted as the well known meme for a long time however as most know now:

Contrary to popular belief, lemmings do not commit mass suicide by leaping off of cliffs into the sea. In fact, they are quite fond of staying alive.

Biology Blog

I think as a friend of mine not long ago went to see the mountain gorillas in this area, and spoke to the local tribesman guides, their history does not include this... so interesting, as they do state that common chimps have always done as such.

So I agree it may be happening and I will accept that and source the actual study as interesting, though as stated I know of other studies showing a generation that have no such indications of this behaviour.

So I will dig into the history of the observations, and check the validity of this research, don't forget the best scientists in the world in the associated discipline of toxicology etc were stating in Legal proceedings very very recntly on behalf of the Tabacco companies that Tabacco was not cancer causing, as late as the 1980's!!!

So I need to see this properly Thanks Grover, I think of interest will be a display of a new behaviour, and if they have learnt this from Humans or not, considering the Butchering of people by other people and pack hunting by humans on humans in the area, especially since the genocide in neighbouring Rwanda, its intensity and scale.

The environmental stresses are extreme for them now too, total stress both in normal diet options and all the other habitat issues vis a vis man.

I have no doubt at that it was observed by the Bonobo's, the smell, screams and massive number of people chased into the bush by other packs of humans.

Orangutangs have been known to observe humans hunting with spears, then to go and take a Long branch that is tipped sharply and use it themselves fishing... so this is known, primates observing and the copying human behaviour....

Maybe Grover and SmallPeeps and all we humans, have normalised and taught this as me and small peeps have been talking about!!

What is of real concern is the hundredth monkey affect so that all Bonobos are probably doing this now from the species collective consciousness.

So I need to look at this more till my own mind is made up to its veracity, truth, history, reason and truth.

A gutted elf..

[edit on 17-11-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Even following some of the revelations on this thread about some of the hunting behaviours that have been observed in Bonobo's as pointed out; further research seems to show again amore caring, other cantered and caring approach by Bonobo Chimps.

It seems they are the first species to act in ways that were until now thought to be unique to humans in regards to sharing.

One of our closest primate relatives, the bonobo's, has been shown to voluntarily share food, scientists report.

This sort of generous behaviour was previously thought by some to be an exclusively human trait.

But a team has carried out an experiment that revealed that bonobo's were more likely to choose to share their food than opt to dine alone.

It really stirs up the debate of altruism, a topic hotly debated for centuries. As it may be inferred the Chimps ability to "Give" to "Receive" at some future point, is not the same as humans due to our ability to project ourselves in our imagination in the future, and the humans ability to see causal relationships, which is probably lacking in the experiences of the Bonobo’s.

This may point to true altruism, as the debate for humans has been we do it to be liked, to be accepted, for some future payoff, not just out of selfless altruism. Even deeds done by humans maybe Charity workers and religious people, is seen to have a perceived payoff by the giver, maybe a place in heaven, or to please parents, or even just to act in ways that supports our own belief systems.

In all of these cases there is a "Gain" by the giver even if not measurable as in the world of emotions and personality, it does not have to material reward.

So are we seeing spontaneous Altruism or generosity with no thought or desire or driver for reward in this behaviour of the Bonobo's or is there a driver for example the protection of the species or tribe that is hard wired as a survival mode.

Dr Brian Hare from Duke University, US, and Suzy Kwetuenda from Lola y Bonobo, a centre for orphaned bonobo’s in the Democratic Republic of Congo, gave a hungry bonobo’s access to a room with some food in it.

This room was adjacent to another two rooms, which the creature could easily see into. One of these rooms was empty while the other contained another bonobo.

The hungry primate could then choose to eat the food alone or unlock the door by removing a wooden peg and share his fare with the other bonobo.

Dr Hare wrote in Current Biology: "We found that the test subjects preferred to voluntarily open the recipient's door to allow them to share the highly desirable food that they could have easily eaten alone."

BBC

There is a good video on the link above to.

If the Chimps are giving because they are able to feel/sense the emotions and needs of others, to be able to imagine and feel the hunger of another chimp, and therefore want to alleviate that suffering, well that is morals and compassion not seen by many humans never mind primates.

This is very exciting work, and these creatures are amazing.

Kind Regards,

Elf
elfedit for spelling.

[edit on 8-3-2010 by MischeviousElf]

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