"White slut" not racial vilification?

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Whites discriminated against!!! Say it ain't so. What a terrible travesty of justice. How dare them call you names, you poor dears. I hope you can recover from that. Oh for the good old days, eh? When whites could treat the people whose land they stole with impunity. And to think that some of them got angry over it. White people crying foul when they get a taste of their own medicine. Here's a thought, how about giving them their land back? It could help.

your being unrealistic.....

Originally posted by XphilesPhan

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

Whites discriminated against!!! Say it ain't so. What a terrible travesty of justice. How dare them call you names, you poor dears. I hope you can recover from that. Oh for the good old days, eh? When whites could treat the people whose land they stole with impunity. And to think that some of them got angry over it. White people crying foul when they get a taste of their own medicine. Here's a thought, how about giving them their land back? It could help.

your being unrealistic.....

I agree with you, but that wasn't my intention. It was my goal to write something that was derisive, condescending, patronizing, dripping with sarcasm, tasteless, base, without class, and expressing my disagreement in a way that was sure to impress upon the reader the strength of my feelings on the topic. It does sound unrealistic, though, as you say.
I just find it amazing when I hear whining and outraged surprise expressed by someone who is a first class citizen in a society that has double standards going back for generations, when someone who has historically been discriminated against and worse expresses their displeasure at their current situation, towards a member of the group who historically mistreated them. What did they expect, a hug and a kiss and all is forgotten?

Originally posted by Ezekiel
John Howard actually took the GST to an election in 1998, so if people didnt want a GST all they had to do was vote for Labor.

Ah now I remember.. it was pretty close wasn't it? he still thought that was enough reason to ignore those who didn't vote for him.

The republic referendum you mentioned was held in 1999.

The way it was phrased was guarenteed to put people off. I didn't mind the idea but the model of republic the offered didn't sit well with me [I cant remember what it was offhand].

I think that hes just been lucky to have gone up against some VERY shocking Labor leaders in the past 10 years. Mark Latham for example.

..Beazley could use a little improvement as well. He looks better than he did [he tucks his shirt in now] but I think the way he carries himself prevents him from getting any further. He also speaks before he thinks. Howard seems to have more confidence.

Hehe yeah Ive noticed that a lot of Government ministers will do their very best to avoid directly answering the questions asked by the opposition. They are very good at skirting just close enough to the issue but not saying anything of substance.

Kind of like ATS.

Again, this government has relied on Labor being completely useless over the past 10 years and love to ram that home every chance they get.

Need new blood IMO.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by Ezekiel
Point taken, if the Aboriginal communites were involved it would be a much better outcome.

Dry communities are great, I did a tour of some with the Senator i used to work with (until recently) and the people there are really great. Its a pity they are so far from the urban areas or more people could see what a benefit they are.

Problems would arise if they were closer to the urban areas they could be corrupted by them.. hopefully people will move to them and the town can grow.

The only answer will be doing what is right for the children - and fast. You've probably noticed thats its no longer in the newspapers and people have already forgotten about it.

Out of sight out of mind.

Originally posted by Mojo4sale
Problem with the dry communities is that alcohol is now not a major problem with the youth's, but still mainly with the older generations.

Do you mean that alcohol is a problem in the dry communities with the older generations? I'm not sure how they enforce this rule.

The younger aborigines are now sniffing petrol to get high and taking other illicit drugs. Do we ban petrol from these area's too. Where does it stop.

The cycle has to be broken somewhere.. haven't got a clue how. The 'dry communites' do seem to be make some headway.. hopefully these communities will change the culture itself as they gain some power. Time will tell I guess.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I just find it amazing when I hear whining and outraged surprise expressed by someone who is a first class citizen in a society that has double standards going back for generations, when someone who has historically been discriminated against and worse expresses their displeasure at their current situation, towards a member of the group who historically mistreated them. What did they expect, a hug and a kiss and all is forgotten?

No not all forgotten, you can never forget the mistakes of the past or you are doomed to repeat them.

However at some stage, people have to buck up and take responsibility for themselves and for the advancement of their people, instead of holding onto the past as an excuse to wallow in a culture of violence and substance abuse.

I use the african americans as an example. They have made leaps and bounds as a race, and while Im sure there is much more that can be done to better their situation in america - they have great respect for their race and their culture which has come from years of wokring hard to get where they are. I have great respect for the african american race, and I think its great to see so many African Americans playing an active role in the US ie. Colin Powell, Condoleeza Rice, nearly the ENTIRE music industry.

A lot of the aboriginals in Australia have no pride and no respect for themselves or their race. They have not made any progress as a race and the majority I have had experiences with have not made any efforts to improve their situation. Now you can say they have had it bad and they have been discriminated against and I wont disagree with you, however there comes a point where people need to start helping themselves.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
First, I am not ashamed. I actually am on your side, I just found the posts complaining about discrimination against whites to be very ignorant.

Why? Discrimination of any creed is wrong.

It is just like here in Canada, except the whites are upset when First Nations are given special rights, which are technically racial discrimination. The whites feel that the Natives should just get over it, and they don't feel they are obligated to compensate them for their losses. I disagree, and find their views at the very least greedy, and at worst, criminal.

Which 'whites'? Citizens or government?

I am white, and my fiance is First Nations, while previous to that I was in a relationship with a black woman. They have taught me a lot about racism. I find most whites have not got a clue about what the reality of generations long, daily, mistreatment, discrimination, and bias is like for the victims.

Is Canada multicultural?

I detest slurs, but I do consider them much less harmful than a rock to the head, rape, or murder.

When racial slurs become illegal, yet only apply to one race.. someone will take advantage of it and start pushing the boudaries with other forms of discrimation. They should either have it apply to everyone or not at all.. if they don't all they'll create is race riots.

Did you know that here in Canada, a Native woman is 5 times as likely to be murdered as a white woman is?

No I didn't. Five times? What, apart from their race, contributes to the risk? Poverty? If most whites are financially better off it may be a class thing.
As it is one in 4 women [apx] will get raped in their lifetime. Rather than stats that compare to white women.. do you know what percentage of natives get raped?
3.5 in 4 perhaps? It'd have to be nearly all of them if they're 5 times more at risk than white women. That statistic is a little confusing and I'd like to know what context it is in.

And that they also constitute the poorest demographic in the country with an average annual income that is 1/3 of what is considered the poverty line?

No I didn't but thankyou for educating us on your country's issues.

I have heard the expression ' the good old days', used by a South African, in the presence of my black partner, referring to apartheid. It is not that uncommon a sentiment.

But using it as sarcasm to whites who are not racist implies that they are.

I know little about the state of affairs in Australia, most of it I heard from an aunt of mine who has lived there for over 20 years. She described a very sad tale, which has amounted to virtual genocide. She is a teacher, and told me there are not enough elders left alive to teach the knowledge of the old ways to the younger generation, so that much of their culture is likely to be lost forever.

This is true.. but the problems run deep. Many of the aboriginals have not been taught the importance of their own culture so are not willing to learn about it.. [cyclical] some come from unstable homes so learning about their culture would be a luxury as they're just trying to survive. Of course these problems are caused through various things.. IMO some of the culture is just incompatable so they're forced to choose between the two. I mean they were nomadic when the poms arrived so they've gone from thousands of years of roaming and sleeping under stars to being expected to live in one spot and go to work every day. It's hard to find a middle ground.

When I hear cries of reverse discrimination,

Sorry but it's not 'reverse discrimation'. It's just discrimination. Your term already implies guilt of one race.

I almost always find out that they don't know what they are talking about, and if they cared to look at the statistics they would see that they are actually getting preferential treatment in the vast majority of the cases.

When people experience discrimination first hand they don't think to look up stats.

I don't find racial slurs funny, but admit that I occasionally can't help but chuckle at the outrage I hear expressed when people who have been treated horribly for generations use them to express their disgust towards the people who benefitted from their abuse and theft.

I haven't benefited from racism.. I've never practiced it. Perhaps I should demand my ancestors castle back from the English? I know a few of my ancestors would've been brutalised for being Irish..

And the world turns again. :shk:

In Canada, racism is alive and well, it has only gone underground and is mostly covert when it used to be overt when it was not made illegal to do so. The laws haven't stopped it, they have just made it harder to be racist.

As it should be.

It is amazing how many whites don't want to make reparations for the terrible actions of their forebears, which they have benefitted from.

Are their some white that dont?

If I get called a racial slur, it doesn't bother me in the least.

It's usually bothers me.. but more so when was on crutches for 1/2 weeks afterwards.

It bothered my previous partner, understandably since it reminded her daily that she is treated worse based on her skin colour. If I came across a bit strong it is because this is a bit of a hot button issue for me.

It is for me as well.. but I at least can tell of my own experiences and get across my opinions without branding an entire race.

And as far as land rights in Australia go, I was just going on the information I had, which is that there had not been any treaties signed with the Aborigines at all. I may have gotten bad information, do you know?

You've got bad information.. you can't even climb ularu [sp] without permission as it is tribal land.

One island that I think got rejected however was an island which had 'womens burness' [abortion]. I think perhaps they were not able to prove it. My memory is a bit hazy on that one.

Until the descendents of those people who were so criminally violated feel that they have been treated fairly, and that efforts have been sincerely made to try to repay them for their losses (which can never be repaid, imo), there will be discontent. I could go on, but I hope that clarifies my previous posts abrasive nature.

Not sure how they can be 'repaid'. If you are a full blooded aboriginal you get a substantial amount of money.. even if you are a 1/4 blood [I think] you get a payment for it. Despite the bad press etc.. our government has tried to help.. they just don't know how to help..

If someone makes a mistake, the best thing they can do is own up to it, and take responsibility. That goes for individuals, and also for larger groups, imo. In this area, I see the same tragic result of the past destruction of a culture. It is hard to imagine your whole people, way of life, world, language, and yes, even family members all gone. All taken away. You then spend your life enduring discrimination, bigotry, and prejudice. Jobs are much harder to find, and verbal abuse is a constant stress. Then, finally, the oppressors make a half hearted effort to help out. They admit they made some mistakes, officially announce that they actually do believe that you are a person like them, and legislate anti racism laws. The laws do almost nothing, and the debris left over from your peoples virtually erased culture mainly consist of depression related behaviour. No surprise there.
I have no idea if I could have survived the horrors that friends I know who are Native American survived. They are strong. Like black people. Maybe too strong. I was once told that the reason white people were so hard on other ethnic groups was related to how afraid of them they were. If thats true, it is easy to tell who they were most afraid of.
Too sad. Nothing can repay someone for their family, for their heritage, for their society, language, ancestral lands.... Can money? Too sad.

Originally posted by rileyIs Canada multicultural?

Yes, and the history is full of examples of bigotry, either spoken, practiced, legislated, or covert.

Sorry but it's not 'reverse discrimation'. It's just discrimination. Your term already implies guilt of one race.

I agree, but I support temporary discrimination as a means to balance the decades of the discrimination the other way. And I see there is one race, humans.

I haven't benefited from racism.. I've never practiced it. Perhaps I should demand my ancestors castle back from the English? I know a few of my ancestors would've been brutalised for being Irish..

My dads side is Irish, and I know a little about the famine etc. I also know the Irish people haven't totally recovered emotionally, almost as if there is a national melancholy or sorrow that I see and hear quite clearly.

It's usually bothers me.. but more so when was on crutches for 1/2 weeks afterwards.

Thats a heck of a slur to put you in crutches.

You've got bad information.. you can't even climb ularu [sp] without permission as it is tribal land.

If I recall, isn't uluru a big rock in the desert? Thats great to hear, but other than spiritually, how does that help them? I still have not heard anyone say that they know of treaties. It is different if the gov't has arbitrarily decided what to do. Is there anywhere that I can read actual signed treaties?

Not sure how they can be 'repaid'. If you are a full blooded aboriginal you get a substantial amount of money.. even if you are a 1/4 blood [I think] you get a payment for it. Despite the bad press etc.. our government has tried to help.. they just don't know how to help..

I will agree to disagree. I see it differently. You said you felt that my 'good old days' comment was inappropriate because you see no racists. I feel differently. I think I do.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I will agree to disagree. I see it differently. You said you felt that my 'good old days' comment was inappropriate because you see no racists. I feel differently. I think I do.

I never said I see no racists. I know it exists.. I just do not believe they all belong to the white race, nor do I think whites [or anyone] should be punnished for crimes they did not commit. 'White' does not mean 'racist'.

BTW. Please fix the quotes.

[edit on 16-9-2006 by riley]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII

I agree with you, but that wasn't my intention. It was my goal to write something that was derisive, condescending, patronizing, dripping with sarcasm, tasteless, base, without class, and expressing my disagreement in a way that was sure to impress upon the reader the strength of my feelings on the topic. It does sound unrealistic, though, as you say.
I just find it amazing when I hear whining and outraged surprise expressed by someone who is a first class citizen in a society that has double standards going back for generations, when someone who has historically been discriminated against and worse expresses their displeasure at their current situation, towards a member of the group who historically mistreated them. What did they expect, a hug and a kiss and all is forgotten?

No one alive in any western country today has ever faced descrimination on the scale of the people who are often mixed into this argument. Of course those people are long dead.

Consider this for a moment, if this kind of, lets label it "revenge discrimination", continues for much longer then the "white guilt" effect is going to go down the tubes as whites are continously disenfranchised. So all these people are really doing is destroying the progress that has been made.

In my country Mexicans claim they have a "right" to the lands in the southern United States even though they were legally sold to the US governement.

They chant things like "Viva la Raza" (long live my race). Are these not racist statements? of course they are but they are not coming from a white man so they are excused. They have declared a race war against the "Anglos" and talk about reconquista.

I just hope my fellow whites wake up before it is too late.

Originally posted by riley

Originally posted by Mojo4sale
Problem with the dry communities is that alcohol is now not a major problem with the youth's, but still mainly with the older generations.

Do you mean that alcohol is a problem in the dry communities with the older generations? I'm not sure how they enforce this rule.

Sorry i probably didnt put that very well, i meant to say the older aborigines who had alcohol abuse problems before joining the dry communities are trying to break their addiction. The youths are turning to illicit drugs because they are much harder to detect.
Its mostly self enforced, i know two aboriginal guy's who come into Alice every couple of weeks and go on major binges then simply head back to the community there from after a few days. Nothing gets said.

Originally posted by riley

One island that I think got rejected however was an island which had 'womens burness' [abortion]. I think perhaps they were not able to prove it. My memory is a bit hazy on that one.

Hindmarsh Island in South Australia, some local aborigines claimed Secret women's business in an attempt to stop a bridge being built from the mainland to the island. It did take a long time to go through the courts, various appeals and so on and i believe the Chapmans (from memory they were the developers) took out civil action against either the aboriginal group and the govt or both, likewise i'm a bit hazy on the details.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't know what can be safely said about this situation. I often counsel others that sometimes it is best to simply take note of circumstances for future reference.

You suggesting the coming racial wars around the world? I see them coming and I see everyone trying to make the whites scape goats for every problem that has happened in the last 1000 years err no make it 10000 years. Even if it was true and that is questionable at best in logic the behaviour being displayed by the vicitims now is not becoming of them. This is why I believe that immigration will destroy in time the existing cultures of the western world and leave us with a mess that the 'brotherhood' will attempt to rule over... if they can that is? Maybe that is why we need the coming police state?

Originally posted by XphilesPhan
No one alive in any western country today has ever faced descrimination on the scale of the people who are often mixed into this argument. Of course those people are long dead.

Consider this for a moment, if this kind of, lets label it "revenge discrimination", continues for much longer then the "white guilt" effect is going to go down the tubes as whites are continously disenfranchised. So all these people are really doing is destroying the progress that has been made. I just hope my fellow whites wake up before it is too late.

First, I have seen treatment that is hard to beat as far as abusive acts go, that have happened within the last 30 years.
Question. What year did Canada officially declare First Nations people to be 'persons' and allowed to vote? This was the year that our government changed its view that they weren't persons. Guess.
And rather than revenge discrimination, lets label it restitution, compensation, pay back, or even trying to make good on a past crime. Revenge has nothing to do with it. I say honor, integrity, compassion, humility, character, and humanity are more relevent terms when discussing how to proceed. You can never bring back the dead children in unmarked graves behind the residential schools, the abuses and murders, and bigotry that has gone on for decades. You can't pay enough money for that. Yet it seems that even a temporary period of reversing the balance, to slightly improve the inequity, is not acceptable.
I want to know.
What else is there we could do? doing nothing is far from acceptable to me. You can't grab everything and then expect to start from scratch. Bygones, and all that... Its just not fair. Its not nice, and I find it disgraceful.

My question is what does "slut" mean?
People redefine it so often now, and it means so many things for a slur, I just think to myself, why do they have to use can't they just say "sell out B****" instead?
Plus, the word almost denotes selling one's self, but I just know why they make a fair deal for everyone if that's possible?

Originally posted by smalllight
My question is what does "slut" mean?
People redefine it so often now, and it means so many things for a slur, I just think to myself, why do they have to use can't they just say "sell out B****" instead?
Plus, the word almost denotes selling one's self, but I just know why they make a fair deal for everyone if that's possible?

To me it means a person who is promiscuous.

Great thread, Ezekiel. I'm not chasing you around the boards, but this does relate to another thread where I asked about how aboriginals were displaced. This thread has touched on it some.

I'm not sure why the double standard is allowed to persist. I speculate that it's mostly from guilt and fear. The situation of which you spoke could easily have occurred in the U.S. with the same results. It's a social memory of guilt that prevents the term "racist" from being applied equally.

We're going to be wrestling with this for a long time.

Originally posted by Katolu
Great thread, Ezekiel. I'm not chasing you around the boards, but this does relate to another thread where I asked about how aboriginals were displaced. This thread has touched on it some.

Yeah I think i was supposed to u2usome links for you but I forgot about it until now... Sorry will find some info for you in the next day or two.

I'm not sure why the double standard is allowed to persist. I speculate that it's mostly from guilt and fear. The situation of which you spoke could easily have occurred in the U.S. with the same results. It's a social memory of guilt that prevents the term "racist" from being applied equally.

We're going to be wrestling with this for a long time.

I agree its the guild and fear factor - some poeple mistakenly feel that the way to make it better is to treat them differently. Which is wrong, because they arent doing it because they want them to be equal they are doing it because they want to feel warm and fuzzy about being 'non-racist'. If they really wanted things to be right they would treat them exactly the same as everyone else, then they would feel like normal members of society.

note: by them I mean aboriginals