Free Will does not Exist

It is a matter of learning from sin. Sin has always existed. God has been teaching beings about right and wrong throughout history. Those who sin the least, are most glorified; those that sin the greatest, are the most condemned. But there is Hope for the greatest sinners!!! That is, through prayer, faith, service, and virtuousness, the greatest sinner can make a reversal and follow the path that God has created for he or she, and experience part of God's Infinite Glory!!!

So if that's true, Humans do infact have a form of free will. Right?

Humans do have free will, i believe that this is true, because i know to be true from my experience, and also the fact that Greattech has yet to come up with sufficient answers to my previous questions. If we don't have free will, then what is the point of me being in here trying to explain to everyone how we do? Until greattech can provide us with some evidence that we don't have free will, and it doesn't involve a book written by men (but rather directly from god) then it's pretty obvious that we do simply because i am here talking about my free will.

And no, just because i say we have free will, i'm not an atheist, and i'm not claiming to be mightier than anyone, so please stop saying that. Just because i'm not Christian, Musslim, or Jewish does not make me an atheist.

Peace

I agree with this also, even though I am a God/Jesus follower. I think we have free will to a extent.

Originally posted by GreatTech
It is a matter of learning from sin. Sin has always existed. God has been teaching beings about right and wrong throughout history. Those who sin the least, are most glorified; those that sin the greatest, are the most condemned. But there is Hope for the greatest sinners!!! That is, through prayer, faith, service, and virtuousness, the greatest sinner can make a reversal and follow the path that God has created for he or she, and experience part of God's Infinite Glory!!!

Ah!


At last, we agree on something!


I agree with all you've said here.

(Well the "Sin has always existed" part is debatable, but we won't get into that right now )

God's Infinite Greatness cannot be revealed unless two things occur: 1) God has created other Life subject to Him, 2) and that sin occurs among the other Life so that God Infinitely retains His Sovereign Love and Power. God controls all and human will, but this is for the Greater Good, as God, who is Infinitely Sinless, can be Loved, Praised, and Honored to the Maximum Extent. If humans did not accept their lives as sinners in need of correction, only God would exist!!!

Originally posted by GreatTech
God's Infinite Greatness cannot be revealed unless two things occur: 1) God has created other Life subject to Him, 2) and that sin occurs among the other Life so that God Infinitely retains His Sovereign Love and Power. God controls all and human will, but this is for the Greater Good, as God, who is Infinitely Sinless, can be Loved, Praised, and Honored to the Maximum Extent. If humans did not accept their lives as sinners in need of correction, only God would exist!!!

Once again, you contradict yourself. You said that god created everyone, controls all and human will, and that god is infinitely sinless. I myself would like to know how can god possibly be infinitely sinless if god controls all our actions and people are "sinners", wouldn't that in turn cause god to be "sinful". If there is no such thing as free will (which is what you argue) then there is no way that god can be infinitely sinless and control everone's actions to make them sin.

Let's say that you create a robot, and you decide to make it kill someone. You are controlling this robot the entire time (which is basically what you say god does to us). Now, i could be just plain crazy, but wouldn't that mean that you yourself actually killed someone. The only problem is that you say that you wouldn't be responsible for the murder, because the robot did it. I say that you did it as well.

This is what you are saying about god and us, we have no free will and god is infinitely sinless. If it is in fact true that we have no free will, then god cannot possibly be sinless (because god would be controlling our every action, like a robot). Once again, it has been proven that we do have free will.

I know it's hard for some to accept, and that's ok, because the idea of them being responsible for their own actions is just ridiculous. I'm not saying that you are a bad person or that i don't like you, I am merely putting forth evidince of the existence of free will. I am all for people having their own religious beliefs and all, but free will is one of the most precious gifts that has been bestowed upon us and we should enjoy it. This doesn't mean that we should go crazy, just know that we can believe anything that we choose and it's ok (as long as it doesn't cause harm to others).

Peace and love

Pancho

7Pan7cho7, I do not believe in free will, but I do believe we all should be responsible for our actions. First, we must be responsible to God. Second, we must be responsible to our neighbor and all other life.

Life is a Gift from God even if He controls it.

God is the Ultimate Judge of Everything.

I have said what I've wanted and people will either listen or not, it doesn't really matter. I feel that all that really matters is that we love and try to help/teach each other.

GreatTech, i wish you the best of luck on your journey that is life. I hope that all who read this will learn something, whether it be from what i've said or what has been said by others. Either way, i feel that this has been a good topic to learn from.

May peace, love, and light be with you all for eternity.

Pancho

7Pan7cho7, although we differ in Spiritual beliefs, I commend you for Blessing others. May peace, love, and light be with you also.

'Children, Mother does not say that you should believe in Mother or in a God in heaven. It is enough to believe in yourself. Everything is there in you.'
Mata Amritanandamayi

'I have said that ye are all Gods. All of you are children of the most high.' Psalm 82:6

"One should not think, 'My religion alone is the right path and other religions are false.' God can be realized by means of all paths. It is enough to have sincere yearning for God. Infinite are the paths and infinite are the opinions." Ramakrishna

‘Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it. It is fearlessness, and it is love.’ Buddha

I choose to agree with these guys.

Nice quotes BlackGuardXIII



About your quote regarding: "Everything is there within You"


But who are "We"?


Unfortunately, many Westerners hear of such teachings from the Eastern Masters, and then mistake the ego for the Inner-Divinities(I'm not saying that you do).

The Inner Buddha or Christ, Krishna, Tao, etc. is not the "me", "I" or "myself".

The "New Age" spiritualistic-mediums mistake the disincarnated egos of others for Divinities, when the former appears in the seance rooms.

Some people that learn about meditation(without proper guidance) may reach certain levels of meditation, and see inner-demons(which are of the mind) that are dressed as Gods, but do not know how to Consciously discriminate what they are seeing.


So the question is how to distinguish between the Lord God of Truth Within and the psychological aggregates(demonic egos)?

The best way to start, it is taught, is through pranayama and other means to transmute the sexual energy(stop fornicating), and to learn how to meditate.

These would be the Foundation at least.


So I'm just saying that we need to be serious and sincere, and always question any types of Inner-Visions that we may have(as the Buddha quote said).


Though I'd certainly agree that one would sooner to contact the Divine by knowing that It is Within, as opposed to seeing the Divine as an external anthropomorphic 'mystery-god'.




Regards





[edit on 30-9-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu
Nice quotes BlackGuardXIII

About your quote regarding: "Everything is there within You"

But who are "We"?

The best way to start, it is taught, is through pranayama and other means to transmute the sexual energy(stop fornicating), and to learn how to meditate.

Regards

[edit on 30-9-2006 by Tamahu]

I must admit that I can understand that there would be a lot of sexual energy available, and have pondered abstinence....
But.... my fiance and I... we really enjoy it.
What is the downside to not stopping?
Cuz I find it hard to even cut down a little, and I have tried.

It does exsist, society has made rules so you can't use it. Which is both good and bad for all.

Good morning world. I'll see you later.

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I must admit that I can understand that there would be a lot of sexual energy available, and have pondered abstinence....
But.... my fiance and I... we really enjoy it.
What is the downside to not stopping?
Cuz I find it hard to even cut down a little, and I have tried.

If you're married, then all the better(the Sexual Act between Woman and Man creates the bond of Marriage, whether one likes it or not).


I'll break it down as simply as I can.


First of all, Chastity and celibacy are not the same thing.


Celibacy means to obstain from the sexual act period.

Celibacy can include chastity, but the superior form of chastity is White Tantra, which means the sexual act between Wife and Husband, without the reaching of fornication known as the orgasm.

As long as the couple withdraws from the sexual act before reaching orgasm, and prays to their Inner-God to not be consumed by lust, then there is Chastity.

To refrain the desire to ejaculate, causes the Kundalini to be agitated as to Awaken.

This can only be done between Man and Woman, and if there is Love(not lust).

Chastity awakens the Sexual Christic Energy and sends it to the brain and the glands in a refined form called Ojas(fuel for the Consciousness) in the East.

The single celibate Yogi can utilize Chastity as well, but it is not as Potent as with the married couple, because the celibate only works with the Two Side Canals of the Caduceus called Ida and Pingala.

The Married couple is able to utilize all Three Channels(so long as fornication/orgasm is not involved), including the Middle Pillar, being called Sushumna.


There are two types of Brahmacharya(Holy Life):

Solar and Lunar


Lunar Brahmacharya is achieved when the celibate is chaste by transmuting the sexual energy through pranayama, meditation, prayer, study, fine-art, self-less action, classical music, etc.

Solar Brahmahcharya, other than celibacy, utilizes the same things; but also with the sexual act between Husband and Wife without fornication or orgasm.

Samael Aun Weor even goes as far as saying that the only way to bring ourselves out of Hell(Klipoth) is through, with Faith in the Inner-Christ, attaining Chastity via the Pure White Sexual Act between Wife and Husband(Paramahamsa Yogananda is a very rare case of eliminating 50% of the egos through chaste-celibacy; the Married couple can eliminate 100% through Chastity without celibacy)



Some links:


Karma Mudra(ATS)


Arcanum A.Z.F.(Thelema-Press)




Hope this helps.





Regards





[edit on 1-10-2006 by Tamahu]

You have voted Tamahu for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

I appreciate how much depth you have gone into in order to answer my question. There is a lot to my fiance and my story, but in summary I would say that we share a rare relationship. Our love is not near perfect, but I think we both are trying our best. The information which you have shared here is very reassuring for me. Thank you.

EDIT - Double Post

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
You have voted Tamahu for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.

Thank you.

I appreciate how much depth you have gone into in order to answer my question. There is a lot to my fiance and my story, but in summary I would say that we share a rare relationship. Our love is not near perfect, but I think we both are trying our best. The information which you have shared here is very reassuring for me. Thank you.

It sounds like you and your fiance at least have a good foundation to work from.


It's just too bad that people are so stiff-neck-ed, that when they hear of the Great Arcanum(in other words they're basically given The Keys of Saint Peter in order to enter Heaven), they foolishly reject it not taking into account the following teachings:

The Gnostic Home


The homes of Gnostic Initiates must have a background of happiness, music and ineffable kisses. Dance, love and the joy of loving strengthen the embryo of the Soul that children have within. Thus, this is how Gnostic homes are a true paradise of love and wisdom.

Liquor and Fornication must be banished from the bosom of Gnostic homes. However, we must not be fanatics. Whosoever is incapable of handling one drink at a social gathering is as weak as someone who cannot control his liquor and gets drunk.

Fornication is something entirely different. Fornication is unforgivable.

Whosoever ejaculates the seminal liquor is a fornicator. Thus, for those who reach orgasm, for fornicators, the Abyss and Second Death await...

To Spill Or Not To Spill In Order To Have Children, ...that is the REALLY BIG Question!




During the sexual act they experience the joy of being complete.

Those who do not spill the semen preserve this joy eternally.







In order to create a child it is not necessary to spill the semen.

The spermatozoon that escapes without spilling the semen is a selected spermatozoon, a superior kind of spermatozoon, a totally mature spermatozoon. The result of such a fertilization is truly a new creature of an extremely high order. This is how we can form a race of Super-Men.


It is not necessary to spill the semen in order to engender a child. Imbeciles like to spill the semen. Gnostics are not imbeciles.

When a couple is united sexually, clairvoyants often see a very bright light enveloping the couple. Precisely in that instant the creative forces of Nature serve as a medium for a new being.

But, since we all have (at least the potential of)Free-Will, people are free to choose what they will, and nobody has the right to personally judge them.





Regards






[edit on 3-10-2006 by Tamahu]

EDIT - Double Post

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Originally posted by Tamahu

But, since we all have (at least the potential of)Free-Will, people are free to choose what they will, and nobody has the right to personally judge them.

[edit on 3-10-2006 by Tamahu]

Since God created Heaven, earth, and all of life, He has the right to judge the smallest infinitesimal particle in the Universe. Everything is recorded by God. No great act by a human escapes Him, nor does any sinful act.

God judges sin seriously, and although we do not have free will, we should learn from our sins so that God makes us more like Him. Those that do not learn from sin have serious delays in reaching Eternal Glory with God.

If humans had free will, how could God judge us fairly and justly, since information and knowledge would have escaped Him? To believe in free will, is to deny the perfection of God.