Photographic Analysis of the WTC7 Hole - NIST Debunked, page 4
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reply posted on 19-3-2007 @ 03:09 PM by Pootie
For those playing the WTC 7 "Giant Gash Card".... BUMP



reply posted on 20-3-2007 @ 04:30 PM by Ahabstar
www.nyc-architecture.com...


Because if you scroll down to the map it shows how the prospective of a photo differs from the prospective of a map. Your picture would give the illusion that you would have turn sideways to slip between the church and tower 2.


or yahoo maps

or type st nicholas greek orthodox church new york, ny into google maps.

Basically the distance between the church and WTC2 shows that WTC2 was not a footprint fall. And while the four story church is a fly compared to WTC7 it does show the wide spread debris.

But if you insist on wild spectulation then the "demon face in the smoke" in the tabloids had to have been the tormented soul of Rasputin destroying some of Czar Nicholas's relics in the church across the way.



reply posted on 20-3-2007 @ 07:11 PM by Ahabstar
Originally posted by ANOK
...
But the towers did fall symmetrically, in other words all four corners fell at the same time and speed, and the towers did not as a mass fall anywhere but straight down.



Well I have watched the few comparison videos of actual CD and honestly I do not see the CD buildings doing the exact all four corners down at the same time that WTC7 did. In fact I would go so far to say that in comparison that the CD's look sloppy compared to WTC7, if WTC7 is the model for "perfect".

Now for a question, what would a building do exactly in your opinion? Would it lean and fall like a tree? Topple like a Jenga tower? Fall like a house of cards? None of those structures have vertical and horizontal forces (steal beams) attempting the tower stable.

Back to videos of actual CD, notice that on most every one that the central vertical support is removed and horizontal forces pull the building into itself much like a row of dominos in reverse, fanning inwards instead of outwards.

WTC7 appears to me to have lost its horizontal force and dropped straight and level and that the outer structure held at the top and sides. Notice the rubble in the picture you posted there are large sections of the outer facade that remained in more or less whole pieces.

Now in your mind think of a house of cards, toothpicks, stack of cord wood or even the game Don't Break the Ice. Now remove a single level without placing another outside force of sliding the level out. What happens? Does it drop a level evenly or unevenly? Does the stress the drop cause a collapse?

In a building, the vertical holds the horizontal up and the horizontal prevents a shearing stress against the vertical. WTC7 did not lose all the vertical and horizontal support on one side else it would have toppled or crumbled like a sand castle. But if it retained the horizontal forces and lost enough of the vertical it would begin to shear. That shearing , without external sideways force, would cause the remaining vertical forces to bend until a floor was lost. The above weight would fall vertically in a uniform manner until resisted enough to not fall vertically.

Go back again to the actual confirmed CD videos of other buildings. Central vertical support is removed and the building falls in on itself. Just like a sand castle if you dig into from the center.

So now comes my speculation as to what the force was to overcome the undamaged vertical columns of WTC7 since the debris raining down on it alone wasn’t enough. Remember those two very large buildings across the street that fell? That was quite a lot of vibration that entered the ground. So much vibration that it was detected on seismographs. Was it not Tesla that worked on harmonic resonance in New York by pounding on the iron support columns in a building and timing the return resonance from the Earth? Metal is shaped by heat and force. Heat was present from the fires, constant force was present from the gravity. How long would the resonant force take to return to the area by the Earth pushing back from the downward force of the two towers collapse?

It may seem fantastically far fetched that resonance would have been enough to additionally weaken already weakened and further weakening vertical support, but can that influence be ignored completely? Could the asymmetric force of vibration been enough to disrupt a building that could have otherwise stood? I don’t know but it seems to me that a natural and known to be real physical force to be a bit more plausible than a black ops force of 30-40 expert building demolitionists entering , setting up and exiting a burning building and pulling it 7 hours after the other two and no one saw any of these people?


reply posted on 20-3-2007 @ 09:12 PM by Ahabstar
You are correct, I am not an advanced structural engineer , just a joe average citizen but if your research, analysis, and conclusions are too prohibitively exhaustive to explain to make me say “hey maybe you have something there.” maybe you need to objectively look again.

Did I not say that resonance being a factor was fantastically far fetched? Is it easier to examine the effect of resonance as to say covert demolitions teams that acted in plain view of huge crowds gathered around the area or holographic plane impacts with realistic audio effects because John Lear doubts he could have hit the towers with his flying experience?

To John Lear, those towers would have been a hard target. Look at the waggle on second plane coming in and tell me you can not envision the desperate wrenching of the wheel back and forth to correct the vector enough to hit inside the corner of the building. Is this impact location why the building fell first despite being designed to survive a direct center impact from a slightly smaller commercial jet? If so does that make my ideas “so full of flaws?”

So let me ask a very simple question. If you were to design a skyscraper in the 1970’s fully aware that it would eventually have to come down due to age like many other skyscrapers and you wanted it to come down easy and cleanly so not as to disturb surrounding buildings: What would it look like if it came down accidentally from structural failure?


reply posted on 20-3-2007 @ 09:21 PM by bsbray11
Originally posted by Ahabstar
You are correct, I am not an advanced structural engineer , just a joe average citizen but if your research, analysis, and conclusions are too prohibitively exhaustive to explain to make me say “hey maybe you have something there.” maybe you need to objectively look again.


So no you've never had physics, but the fact that I don't agree with you indicates that I should reconsider my views?

Is it easier to examine the effect of resonance as to say covert demolitions teams that acted in plain view of huge crowds gathered around the area or holographic plane impacts with realistic audio effects because John Lear doubts he could have hit the towers with his flying experience?


I never suggested either.

If you were to design a skyscraper in the 1970’s fully aware that it would eventually have to come down due to age like many other skyscrapers and you wanted it to come down easy and cleanly so not as to disturb surrounding buildings: What would it look like if it came down accidentally from structural failure?


More relevant is what it wouldn't do: spout most of its mass in every direction, but without the actual collapse slowing down. Wasn't it supposed to be driven by the momentum of the falling mass?

Besides, Les Robertson didn't design the buildings to fall, no one does that. Building a building to fall and building it to stand are two completely contradictory goals. Buildings are built to stand. Those buildings in particular were all built to withstand enormous disasters. Not collapse like houses of cards. Not only would it be illegal to build something like that, it would be extremely hazardous to a very, very large area.


reply posted on 20-3-2007 @ 09:44 PM by Ahabstar
Originally posted by bsbray11
The Myth Busters actually tried to fail a small beam in such a manner on one episode, watch out for it on Discovery. Also, all of the columns were welded and bolted all the way up to lateral beams. In other words, it was all solidly connected, more or less like one big piece of steel with granite and other masonry around it, concrete for the floors. Even if a column is knocked out at the base for whatever reason, it's not going to all come crashing down from the roof because of all of the beams holding the rest of it steady, "gripping" tight around it on each floor.

[edit on 20-3-2007 by bsbray11]


Two points:

Myth Busters would be a study on simple resonance in a solid object. In order to reshape or bend tempered steel you need heat, pressure and force. Place a standard box end wrench in a bench vice and beat it with a hammer and it breaks. Heat it up with a fire to a sufficient and hit it and it bends. You have heat from the fire, pressure from the gravity on building, I put forward the idea of resonance as a force.

Naturally the support columns are steel encased in concrete in the lower levels and that it would take the loss of more than one to cause the building to collapse under its own weight and perhaps the uncalculated weight of debris.

My main point of consideration is this (guess this is a third point) the average person saying that it has to be a CD has never or rarely considered outside factors such as the weight of debris or the force of vibration from resonance on the remaining supports that were already stressed from covering the extra load from damaged and destroyed supports.

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