The Future of The British Armed Forces?

well again devilwasp same as i said to you in another thread, what do you expect us to do...boost our spending even more?

we already have the 2nd highest defence budget, its just a fact that uk armed forces is under construction and the biggest part of our budget is going on these projects that we have in development....yet if all our defence budget went on armour you'd write "what upgrading our aging airforce/navy" i know what your like man without even knowing you as a person, its a lose/lose situation.

but the fact is the UK cannot compete with america's MONSTROUS defence budget we are a puny island man, our empire days are long gone...our troops are professional enough to do a job though (like they are), yes i agree they should be provided with the best equipment possible and they are (slowly but surelly) - but we can't have a the best of both worlds.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by st3ve_o
no 'mr negative' i mean the other 3 options they are looking at.

Medium Sized Vessel Derivatie
the versatile Surface Combatant
Global Corvette




[edit on 20-9-2006 by st3ve_o]

Lol no offence but I like to see myself as a realist, the government has continuely let down our troops since 1939. In the 80's our troops stole argentinian weapons because they where "better" than our SLR's. We still as of yet have an air control and an air defence aircraft, unless you count LOS weapons.

WRONG!

The weapons the Argentinian forces used, were exactly the same as ours........

FN SLR/FN FAL, the 7.62mm General, .30 and .50 Brownings, 105 and 155mm artillery and 81mm mortars.

Whoever told you British Guardsmen, Ghurkas, Marines or Paras stole Argy weaponry, is talking out of their arses.

YES they picked up discarded mags, especially FN FAL mags [30 rds] and used the ammo therein during the fighting for Tumbledown etc, but nobody stole any weapons.

Unless of course you refer to the REMF trophy hunters who swarmed across the capital grabbing whatever they could.

Originally posted by devilwasp
Last year we spent 690 million pound on weapons and ammunition alone, we spent more on: "Hotels, Restaurants & Transportation" than we did weapons and ammunition.
We also spent more on computer services than we did weapons and ammo.

Follow the money...

I do stand up for the Devil on this issue. If the government would only grasp the nettles and swing the axe where it is needed.

Far too many vehicles are rented at very outlandish prices and they are often top of the range vehicles, depending on the rank of the user. Here in Gloucester, I receive many hire vehs and minibuses, because allegedly, they are cheaper to hire than provide and service green fleet.

In my opinion, Residence to Place of Duty (RPD) and Motor Mileage Allowance (MMA) should be scrapped. This would save a couple of hundred thousand pounds a year!

Another item that really bugs me, is the hotel rating system for overnight accomodation. Senior officers used to get what was known as Rate 1 - the best available; Juniour officers got Rate 2; Senior NCOs got Rate 3 and the rest were entitled to Rate 4 - provided no service accomodation was available.

Those are just a couple of nags from me. If anybody knows of any other ways MOD could save money, please reply.

Incidentally, getting back on track, I have a friend who flys Yimkin Airways. They haul supplies to Afghanistan and Iraq, but the majority goes to Afghanistan.

So far during the peace keeping mission to Afghanistan, British forces have spent a third of a million rounds of 5.56mm ammunition.

Kind of makes you think, does it not?

the uk should pull out of iraq and put more resources in afghan - which is rapildly being forgotten about in the usa.....

Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by st3ve_o
no 'mr negative' i mean the other 3 options they are looking at.

Medium Sized Vessel Derivatie
the versatile Surface Combatant
Global Corvette




[edit on 20-9-2006 by st3ve_o]

Lol no offence but I like to see myself as a realist, the government has continuely let down our troops since 1939. In the 80's our troops stole argentinian weapons because they where "better" than our SLR's. We still as of yet have an air control and an air defence aircraft, unless you count LOS weapons.

WRONG!

The weapons the Argentinian forces used, were exactly the same as ours........

FN SLR/FN FAL, the 7.62mm General, .30 and .50 Brownings, 105 and 155mm artillery and 81mm mortars.

Whoever told you British Guardsmen, Ghurkas, Marines or Paras stole Argy weaponry, is talking out of their

arses.

YES they picked up discarded mags, especially FN FAL mags [30 rds] and used the ammo therein during the fighting for Tumbledown etc, but nobody stole any weapons.

Unless of course you refer to the REMF trophy hunters who swarmed across the capital grabbing whatever they could.

I thought the argy SLR were automatic whereas ours were single shot, they had far superior night sights compared to ours and the argys had much better boots.

Im agreeing with Devilswasp rather than old fritzie who has got things wrong in the past (example tornado f4)

Originally posted by fritz

WRONG!

The weapons the Argentinian forces used, were exactly the same as ours........

FN SLR/FN FAL, the 7.62mm General, .30 and .50 Brownings, 105 and 155mm artillery and 81mm mortars.

Whoever told you British Guardsmen, Ghurkas, Marines or Paras stole Argy weaponry, is talking out of their

arses.

Yes I know the FN FAL and SLR are the sam fritz, but the SLR's are not fully automatic, unless you have an unlimited ammount of match sticks.

YES they picked up discarded mags, especially FN FAL mags [30 rds] and used the ammo therein during the fighting for Tumbledown etc, but nobody stole any weapons.

Unless of course you refer to the REMF trophy hunters who swarmed across the capital grabbing whatever they could.

Fritz this might not have been a widespread thing but I have heard this from many serving and ex serving members of HMF.

Originally posted by st3ve_o
well again devilwasp same as i said to you in another thread, what do you expect us to do...boost our spending even more?

I expect our government to arm and equip our troops, not remove tie thier hands, gag them, give them a rubber spoon and say "Go get em boyo!"

we already have the 2nd highest defence budget, its just a fact that uk armed forces is under construction and the biggest part of our budget is going on these projects that we have in development....yet if all our defence budget went on armour you'd write "what upgrading our aging airforce/navy"

i know what your like man without even knowing you as a person, its a lose/lose situation.

Armour lol , we have the best armour availible , hell the yanks buy it off us!
The navy is out dated, the RAF is an ageing war machine with small wings and the army is frankly a tiger with no legs.

but the fact is the UK cannot compete with america's MONSTROUS defence budget we are a puny island man, our empire days are long gone...our troops are professional enough to do a job though (like they are), yes i agree they should be provided with the best equipment possible and they are (slowly but surelly) - but we can't have a the best of both worlds.

We wont have the best of any worlds, troops in training do not even get the correct equipment (My friend in the RM almost got shot during a live fire exercise because the radios failed during the flanking stage.) , hell if iraq and afghanistan dont show us the same faults we made in the falklands then what will?

The day had finally arrived.

I got up today at 06:15 and got myself a quick brew. Sean was already on site, as I could hear the side door banging open and closing.

By the time I looked at my watch, it was 06:30. Soon, they'd start to arrive. By 06:35, half a dozen guys had turned up to see them off.

At 07:00 the Eagle Coach turned up, as had the CO, PSAO and CSM. Even the CQMS had struggled out of bed - not bad for a Sunday!

We all stood in the rain talking in low voices and having a few last drags on rain splattered ciggies. One by one, loved ones or parents brought them on site. A quick chat, a hastely grabbed brew followed by handshakes all round and they were gone - off to join 4/2 Commando in Helmand Province.

'Good luck' was the chorus but I suppose the feeling was one of hidden anxiety, knowing that within 24 hours, they were going to be facing the guys who kick the mighty Soviet Army out of Afghanistan.

Personally I feel sorrow because, deep in my heart, I think that some of them may not be coming back.

I hope I'm wrong, but it's just a feeling that something is not right.

God bless and look after them.

how many troops from 4/2 (42?) commando were leaving today was it the full commando unit?

[edit on 24-9-2006 by mojoberg]

Originally posted by mojoberg
how many troops from 4/2 (42?) commando were leaving today was it the full commando unit?

[edit on 24-9-2006 by mojoberg]

I believe it is the full unit, my friends are off to iraq.

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by mojoberg
how many troops from 4/2 (42?) commando were leaving today was it the full commando unit?

[edit on 24-9-2006 by mojoberg]

I believe it is the full unit, my friends are off to iraq.

Sorry Devil, you're wrong.

It was blokes from the RGBW-LI (TA) unit I work for. They are attached to 4/2 Commando, operating from Camp Bastion, Helmand Province in southwestern Afghanistan.

Originally posted by fritz
Sorry Devil, you're wrong.

It was blokes from the RGBW-LI (TA) unit I work for. They are attached to 4/2 Commando, operating from Camp Bastion, Helmand Province in southwestern Afghanistan.

My friends in 42 and he is off to iraq not afgahnistan, he was supposed to be going to the helmand province but then again mabye its just sections of it.

I get a bit tired of all the "borrowers" talk because its not really like that. There is no way people have had to share body armour. There was a story in the UK paper about this and it was a lie blown out of proportion. Yes the UK army is undermanned and prehaps doesnt have the best equipment in the world but they do have plenty of it. Soldiers in UK Army have a habit of getting hold of as much foreign kit when serving with allies its what they call "Gucci" kit. They like to adapt and mix their equipment up until its right for them.

And as for a shortage in ammo that is so laughable ive been to Iraq twice, Bosnia twice and Northern Ireland 3 times and every time i have been given as much Ammo as i could carry infact on many occasions i had been given far more than i could physically carry.

Although i left a couple of years back ive just been up at my old camp this afternoon as my sister lives there with my serving brother in law (One of my old comrades) He was packing his kit ready for deplyment to Iraq next week. The kit they have now compared to when i left 3 year ago is far more superior and up to date they have every bit of extra luxurious kit thrown at them.

Yeah the Rifles are a bit bad but since their update after all the trouble they had they seem to be fine.

To be honest British soldiers are like Gypsys they will take and find any bit of kit they can anywhere they can regardless of if theirs is better or worse. Its just one of those things ive never got my head round however was doing the same withe yanks in Bosnia

Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by mojoberg
how many troops from 4/2 (42?) commando were leaving today was it the full commando unit?

[edit on 24-9-2006 by mojoberg]

I believe it is the full unit, my friends are off to iraq.

Sorry Devil, you're wrong.

It was blokes from the RGBW-LI (TA) unit I work for. They are attached to 4/2 Commando, operating from Camp Bastion, Helmand Province in southwestern Afghanistan.

i dont know where you get 4/2 commando from its 42 commando and their has been a company of 42 commando in afghan since feb

Originally posted by thesaint
I get a bit tired of all the "borrowers" talk because its not really like that. There is no way people have had to share body armour. There was a story in the UK paper about this and it was a lie blown out of proportion. Yes the UK army is undermanned and prehaps doesnt have the best equipment in the world but they do have plenty of it. Soldiers in UK Army have a habit of getting hold of as much foreign kit when serving with allies its what they call "Gucci" kit. They like to adapt and mix their equipment up until its right for them.

And as for a shortage in ammo that is so laughable ive been to Iraq twice, Bosnia twice and Northern Ireland 3 times and every time i have been given as much Ammo as i could carry infact on many occasions i had been given far more than i could physically carry.

Although i left a couple of years back ive just been up at my old camp this afternoon as my sister lives there with my serving brother in law (One of my old comrades) He was packing his kit ready for deplyment to Iraq next week. The kit they have now compared to when i left 3 year ago is far more superior and up to date they have every bit of extra luxurious kit thrown at them.

Yeah the Rifles are a bit bad but since their update after all the trouble they had they seem to be fine.

To be honest British soldiers are like Gypsys they will take and find any bit of kit they can anywhere they can regardless of if theirs is better or worse. Its just one of those things ive never got my head round however was doing the same withe yanks in Bosnia

what regiment were you in The saint?

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by fritz
Sorry Devil, you're wrong.

It was blokes from the RGBW-LI (TA) unit I work for. They are attached to 4/2 Commando, operating from Camp Bastion, Helmand Province in southwestern Afghanistan.

My friends in 42 and he is off to iraq not afgahnistan, he was supposed to be going to the helmand province but then again mabye its just sections of it.

Yeah Devil, I thought that as well. But my mate Chris is [probably] a Sgt by now, and he is definately going to Afghanistan with 4/2 Commando.

He [Chris] said that the commandos were being swapped round theatres quite a bit - i.e 6 months Iraq, 3 months UK then 6 months Afghanistan then 6 to 9 months off ops, then it starts all over again.

With regards to the unit reinforcing Camp Bastion, I believe this is a composite commando troop or squadron, backed up with RGBW-LI, the RGH and other TA members for the next 6 months. At least four of the RGBW-LI guys are now on their second tour with another two on their third.

So much for travelling round the world, meeting exciting people and wasteing the bad guys, but only on weekends!

The FN FAL was the longer and heavier barrelled version of the FN SLR. It was fully automatic with a change lever 'S', 'R' and 'A' whilst the SLR had a safety catch for 'S' and 'R'.

The closest weapon to it role wise, would be the Soviet RPK and the Browning BAR.

[edit on 24-9-2006 by fritz]

Originally posted by fritz

Originally posted by devilwasp

Originally posted by fritz
Sorry Devil, you're wrong.

It was blokes from the RGBW-LI (TA) unit I work for. They are attached to 4/2 Commando, operating from Camp Bastion, Helmand Province in southwestern Afghanistan.

My friends in 42 and he is off to iraq not afgahnistan, he was supposed to be going to the helmand province but then again mabye its just sections of it.

Yeah Devil, I thought that as well. But my mate Chris is [probably] a Sgt by now, and he is definately going to Afghanistan with 4/2 Commando.

He [Chris] said that the commandos were being swapped round theatres quite a bit - i.e 6 months Iraq, 3 months UK then 6 months Afghanistan then 6 to 9 months off ops, then it starts all over again.

With regards to the unit reinforcing Camp Bastion, I believe this is a composite commando troop or squadron, backed up with RGBW-LI, the RGH and other TA members for the next 6 months. At least four of the RGBW-LI guys are now on their second tour with another two on their third.

So much for travelling round the world, meeting exciting people and wasteing the bad guys, but only on weekends!

[edit on 24-9-2006 by fritz]

where is this 4/2 commando based fritz ill tell you where no where because there is not 4/2 commando just like there is not a f4 tornado there is a 42 commando though

An infantary regiment not that id like to go too personal on these here pages but by all means U2U me and ill answer your question

That my friend, is my way of illustrating 42 Commando pronounced Four Two and not as some craphat civvies call it 'Foutrytwo' commando.

It can also be a callsign designation such as 4/0, 3/1 or in my case 4/2/A [4 Troop Cpl]

It is one of the little things about civvies that really me off. Their not being able to pronounce the Phonetic Alphabet or Alpha/Numerics correctly.

Originally posted by fritz
That my friend, is my way of illustrating 42 Commando pronounced Four Two and not as some craphat civvies call it 'Foutrytwo' commando.

It can also be a callsign designation such as 4/0, 3/1 or in my case 4/2/A [4 Troop Cpl]

It is one of the little things about civvies that really

me off. Their not being able to pronounce the Phonetic Alphabet or Alpha/Numerics correctly.

you my friend fritz should be called walter mitty you spout off bull%$&^ then you just become condescending
It is one of the little things about civvies that really me off. Their not being able to pronounce the Phonetic Alphabet or Alpha/Numerics correctly. whereas on numerous occasions you get your facts wrong. I know that 42 commando can pronounced four two or forty two but nowhere will you ever see it being written down as 4/2