Superpositioning: Matter Watches Us Watch It

Originally posted by Yarium
I think I missed something you said earlier about Consciousness being "nonlocal". What do you mean by this? If it's non-local, as in it's the same everywhere, then why not just say we're not the observer - that this non-local phenomena is. And why not just move further still and say that the non-local phenomena is the Medium that performs the measurement, that it's the laws of physics that are the non-local consciousness? After all, the laws of physics apply "non-locally" everywhere, the same.

I explained this in that post you mentioned. Non locality is a fundamental characteristic of quantum systems. There doesn't have to be any frame of reference to judge what happens to anything, unlike in Relativity. It's the old double particle experiment where two photons are created then separated from one another by an arbitrarily large distance..... say the width of the observable universe. What happens when you change the spin of one of the photons is that the other photon, which has no visible means of communicating with the other photon, instantly knows what has happened to the photon that has been changed and it changes to mirror the other photon, accordingly.

Say you spin one photon to the right, the other one then spins to the right at the same time. It's what Einstein called "spooky action at a distance".... he didn't really understand what was happening, and modern physicists only have a barely greater grasp of it now. Whether it's some sort of superluminal communication or not, they don't know. They still cling to Relativity when it comes to these things. It's woefully inadequate, in my opinion. It needs revising and changing, given what they know of things now.

So what I am saying is that consciousness appears to be working at a quantum level, or maybe even beyond that at something we don't know about yet. The medium which performs the measurement cannot be non local in nature, because that thing which takes the measurement is bound by SR in spacetime, since taking the measurement involves a finite moment of time and a propagation of information. Its act of sending the information can only propagate at or below lightspeed in spacetime. However, the wavefunction which carries the signal can propagate at any speed it likes..... much faster than lightspeed. Because it behaves in a non local fashion, much like the two photons. Just that any information sent along that wave will be bound by Relativity and can't travel faster than light.

Actually, consciousness probably operates outside of even quantum physics as both consciousness and the thought (the information) appear to travel instantaneously everywhere at the same time.

so, would this analogy work for us layman? say like in a cartoon, when the lights go out, everything is black. then someone turns on a flash light and everything in the path of the beam becomes illuminated but only in the light beam? i guess what im saying is are the photons in a state of readiness waiting to be observed and do they go back to an unknown state once they aren't being observed?

this is all very interesting. it kind of brings back the feeling that we are here for some reason and there is more to life.

You're getting there, homeskillet. Photons, like all EMR (electromagnetic radiation) have a dual nature. They are both particles and waves at the same time. This is a photon's state of superposition. However, you cannot observe that dual nature concurrently. You can only see a photon either as a particle or as a wave, depending on the nature of your observation.

The best way to see this is to perform the famous dual slit experiment. You can do this yourself with a flashlight and a diffraction grating or a piece of cardboard/paper cut with the two slits (must be very thin slits). Close off one slit then shine the torch at the slit. Make sure you have a dark projector screen or piece of black paper behind the cardboard and slits. What you will see if a series of dots on the paper from each photon passing through the slit. That shows you that individual photons passed through the slit as particles and made the lighted dots on the paper.

Now remove the cover from the other slit.

What you see now is a series of light and dark lines on the paper. This is the photons acting as waves. What is happening is that each photon is passing through both slits at the same time, creating patterns of constructive and destructive interference across the paper. Constructive where there's a lighted stripe (in phase waves). Destructive where there is a dark stripe (out of phase waves). You can do this with any wavelength of light and you will get the same patterns. Xrays, radio waves, gamma radiation......doesn't matter. They all have this dual nature.

That should demonstrate it for you clearly

Well Ghost, I still don't buy it, because those 2 paradoxes still aren't solved. They're only partially solved by this non-local consciousness that sees everything the same.

But in that case, like I said, I fail to see why consciousness would need to be the Observer and not this "non-local" phenomena.

Also, if we take the electron as being in every possible location at the same time, changing things so that the laws of physics are the observer wouldn't change that - wouldn't threaten that position. A photon or some kind of interaction would still have to occur for the electron's momentary position to matter at all. Even then, some other things could still allow the "breathing room" for the electron to exist in many places around the electron at the same time, because a difference in location may not affect the physical outcome.

So, just as for the answer to some quadratic equations having 2 solutions, both of them right, in that case in physics regarding observing the electron, the same could be true.

This allows both of our viewpoints on it, and eliminates the paradoxes - but Consciousness still isn't the observer.

Well, we can agree to disagree on this. As you've said, maybe we're both right, in which case the both of us are the "superpositional state" of the ideas we're both giving.

Therefore we're behaving in a "quantum" fashion

I might go and "quantum tunnel" over to Ireland for a holiday!!!

Originally posted by GhostITM
Well, we can agree to disagree on this. As you've said, maybe we're both right, in which case the both of us are the "superpositional state" of the ideas we're both giving.

Therefore we're behaving in a "quantum" fashion

I might go and "quantum tunnel" over to Ireland for a holiday!!!

Agreed! I'll catch you there on the next Generally Relative space-warp!