Folks, This Is Getting Serious

Rising sea level may well turn out to be the least of our problems:

As global warming melts the world's ice sheets, rising sea levels are not the only danger. Viruses hidden for thousands of years may thaw and escape - and we will have no resistance to them.

Last week, the latest study to track global warming revealed that Alaska's snowless season is lengthening. As the world warms and ice-sheets and glaciers begin to melt, most of us worry about how the earth will respond and what kind of impact climate change will have. Will flooding become a regular feature, or is the land going to become parched? Are hurricanes and typhoons going to spring up in places they have never visited before? Is the rising sea level going to swallow some of the world's most fertile farmland, along with millions of homes?

All of these are valid concerns, but now it turns out that the impact of global warming could be worse than we first imagined. Ice sheets are mostly frozen water, but during the freezing process they can also incorporate organisms such as fungi, bacteria and viruses. Some scientists believe that climate change could unleash ancient illnesses as ice sheets drip away and bacteria and viruses defrost. Illnesses we thought we had eradicated, like polio, could reappear, while common viruses like human influenza could have a devastating effect if melting glaciers release a bygone strain to which we have no resistance. What is more, new species unknown to science may re-emerge. And it is not just humans who are at risk: animals, plants and marine creatures could also suffer as ancient microbes thaw out.

In 1999, Scott Rogers from Bowling Green State University in Ohio and his colleagues reported finding the tomato mosaic tobamovirus (ToMV) in 17 different ice-core sections at two locations deep inside the Greenland ice pack. Gentle defrosting in the lab revealed that this common plant pathogen had survived being entombed in ice for 140,000 years. "ToMV belongs to a family of viruses with a particularly tough protein coat, which helps it to survive in these extreme environments," says Rogers.

Since then Rogers has found many other microbes in ice samples from Greenland, Antarctica, and Siberia. And this has turned out to be just the tip of the microbial iceberg. Over the last 10 years biologists have discovered bacteria, fungi, viruses, algae and yeast hibernating under as much as 4km of solid ice, in locations all over the world.

Source.

The risk may be low, but if there was a deadly virus trapped in that ice which has sat for thousands of years, we may well have absolutely no resistance to it whatsoever. The consequences for mankind could well turn out to be catastrophic.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Exactly....These "There is no global warming" proponents never come up with information that is not politically motivated.

I hope you don't think I'm a 'no global warming' proponent I'm simply interested in the truth. And from experience I can assure you you won't find that in any media report.

The problem is, it's become trendy to over sensationalise climate change stories - not sure why. It's quite clear they do nothing to change peoples attitudes - after all who want's lower energy bills if it means turning the lights out at night?

As to a synoptic reasons for the reduction in sea ice this year, that's what the original NASA Press Release says:-

Data from the National Centers for Environmental Prediction, Boulder, Colo., suggest that winds pushed perennial ice from the East to the West Arctic Ocean (primarily located above North America) and significantly moved ice out of the Fram Strait, an area located between Greenland and Spitsbergen, Norway. This movement of ice out of the Arctic is a different mechanism for ice shrinkage than the melting of Arctic sea ice, but it produces the same results - a reduction in the amount of perennial Arctic sea ice.

Not so dramatic a news story after all ....

(Sorry, I really should have dug out the news release in the first place, rather than just making an unqualified assertion)

What good is having a job if the air you breathe is not healthy?

It's perfectly healthy now and is for my perceivable lifetime...and the job feeds my family, puts a roof over our heads, etc.

What good are vehicles if you can't drive them because of massive flooding due to polar ice caps melting?

Haven't had to dodge a flood yet, and don't perceive doing so in my lifetime.

What good are nice houses if the land you live on cannot grow food?

I get my food at the supermarket, don't you? I don't see them going anywhere before I die.

Answer those questions and we will proceed from there with your argument.

Just did. Now...you're initial reaction is going to be, "My God! How can you be so shortsighted!, You narrow-minded idiot!"...but, my answers are to make a point...not my true answers. These answers are how EVERYONE initially views the questions. Only after resolving the question of "will it affect me", does one then become altruistic and view the larger picture.

Thing is, it will be difficult to convince anyone to spend money solving a problem that will not directly effect them, but only future generations. This is why such a finding isn't doing much more than raising some eyebrows....

The dinosaurs caused the last ice age by leaving huge shadows on the ground, but luckily the polar bears thawed the Earth back out by breathing heavy on the ice.

Or maybe the Earth just goes through cycles every few hundred thousand years. Does anyone really expect the Earth's temperatures to remain at a constant state never changing? I wouldn't trust any measurements taken with 50 year old technology, much less 100 years. And even if you took samples over the past 100 years that were 100% accurate there is no way you could gage the Earth's million year cycles. From what I understand alot of countries were once underwater, now they are land. And alot of ocean areas were once land and now are under water. Who caused that, man?

Originally posted by Gazrok
Only after resolving the question of "will it affect me", does one then become altruistic and view the larger picture.

Thing is, it will be difficult to convince anyone to spend money solving a problem that will not directly effect them, but only future generations. This is why such a finding isn't doing much more than raising some eyebrows....

Therein lies the problem with America today. Peple are so shortsighted, as you so eloquently described me, that they don't realize how politics,religion,world events, are going to affect them 5-10 years down the road. You see, Americans have this mindset, "If it doesn't affect me immediately, I am not worried about it." Now, Gazrok, that's shortsighted and pretty stupid to boot.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Gazrok, here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. American's are indifferent to things that they think will not affect them but in actuality, it's all going to come and bite them in the proverbial butt.

Culture of Indifference Leaves America Open to BSE
Suzanne Goldenberg talks to insiders who warn of failings in a lax inspection regime

by Suzanne Goldenberg

When the first case of mad cow disease was diagnosed in America a caustic joke began the rounds of the vets and food inspectors who monitor safety standards at the meat packing plants.

It was no surprise, it went, that a sick animal had been brought to the slaughter, but it was absolutely shocking that the discovery had ever become public.

"That's the point where something went wrong with the system - that it became public," a manager with nearly 30 years' service in the agriculture department's food safety and inspection service told the Guardian.

"Among ourselves, we think our inspection system is the lowest in the world."

The senior safety source and others with an inside view of the US meat industry questioned by the Guardian describe a culture of indifference towards the threat of BSE.

In the slaughterhouses and meat packing plants, vets and food safety inspectors say:


policies favor the beef industry at the expense of consumer safety;
testing for BSE is rare and haphazard, and carried out by people with minimal training in the disorder;
discussion of the disease by regulators was discouraged;
government agencies fail to enforce their own safety standards.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]Source

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Everyone here is wanting to know some facts about global warming. There was a science site I found today relating to it....

Global Warming Basics
www.pewclimate.org...
The scientific community has reached a strong consensus regarding the science of global climate change. The world is undoubtedly warming. This warming is largely the result of emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases from human activities including industrial processes, fossil fuel combustion, and changes in land use, such as deforestation. Continuation of historical trends of greenhouse gas emissions will result in additional warming over the 21st century, with current projections of a global increase of 2.5ºF to 10.4ºF by 2100, with warming in the U.S. expected to be even higher. This warming will have real consequences for the United States and the world, for with that warming will also come additional sea-level rise that will gradually inundate coastal areas, changes in precipitation patterns, increased risk of droughts and floods, threats to biodiversity, and a number of potential challenges for public health.


Addressing climate change is no simple task. To protect ourselves, our economy, and our land from the adverse effects of climate change, we must ultimately dramatically reduce emissions of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. To achieve this goal we must fundamentally transform the way we power our global economy, shifting away from a century’s legacy of unrestrained fossil fuel use and its associated emissions in pursuit of more efficient and renewable sources of energy. Such a transformation will require society to engage in a concerted effort, over the near and long-term, to seek out opportunities and design actions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Now,my main point is that we have got to quit arguing and figure out what is really going on. I am not as presumptuous as to assume that we can totally stop the onslaught of whatis to come, but I do think we can begin to practice damage control if we have an idea about what is actually happening. This following statement sums up my stance to a tee on the cyclical view of nature.

How significant is this warming? The earth's temperature has always fluctuated, but ordinarily these shifts occur over the course of centuries or millennia, not decades. The 1990s were the hottest decade of the entire millennium.

Some people say that we need to wait for more information before we act. As far as that ideology goes, I feel much the same as Eileen Claussen does. She states in a speech on July 17,2002:

Let's turn now to a third myth: There's so much uncertainty - about the science, about the economics - that we need to wait for better information before we can decide how to respond. The reality is that there are several very compelling reasons that we must begin to act right now - and uncertainty itself is one of them.

You can read her entire speech here: Claussen Speech if anyone desires to take the time to do so.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Actually the seas are dropping... The ice packs are melting the edges off giving the appearance of them shrinking but in reality they are also getting alot thicker. Places where divers were diving 30 years ago are now completely above water. Water lines are receeding. High tide marks are moving out farther and farther.

Never mind what experts say, look for yourself. Uplug, rub the LCD display out of your eyes and experience sunlight and outside stimulus!

Its all part of the cycle. The Ozone is now almost completely healed back up after banning CFCs.

Seriously folks. There is no proof at all that we are "causing a global warming epidemic". Just more fear mongering.

Originally posted by donk_316
Its all part of the cycle. The Ozone is now almost completely healed back up after banning CFCs.

Seriously folks. There is no proof at all that we are "causing a global warming epidemic". Just more fear mongering.

While I think you are a bit overly optimistic, I do agree that if we figure out what is causing the problem and put a halt to it,or at least limit the problem, then things will get better. As was mentioned before, the earth does have mechanisms to heal itself. However, until we find the root cause of the problem and lessen its impact, the earth will not have the chance to restore itself.



[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Therein lies the problem with America today. Peple are so shortsighted, as you so eloquently described me, that they don't realize how politics,religion,world events, are going to affect them 5-10 years down the road. You see, Americans have this mindset, "If it doesn't affect me immediately, I am not worried about it." Now, Gazrok, that's shortsighted and pretty stupid to boot.
[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Or another possibility is that, unlike you, a majority of Americans are convinced that the current warming trend is part of a natural cycle, and that nothing they do or could do would have much of an effect. And that all the economic restrictions people like Al Gore want to put on the U.S. would end up hurting the country for no good reason.

Another thought is that there have been so many doomsayers (that were wrong) over the years that people have just turned a deaf ear to the latest ones. Kind of like the "the boy who cried wolf" story.

And you've got no scientific proof that your particular prophecy of doom will turn out to be right this time.

Originally posted by centurion1211

Or another possibility is that, unlike you, a majority of Americans are convinced that the current warming trend is part of a natural cycle, and that nothing they do or could do would have much of an effect. And that all the economic restrictions people like Al Gore want to put on the U.S. would end up hurting the country for no good reason.

However, this indifference is stretched across a plethora of subjects,not just the environment. Do you know how ignorant most Americans are when it comes to world affairs? Pretty ignorant. It's not so much that they are just indifferent about the environment, but they are indifferent and unknowledgeable about a whole host of subjects....That fact both bothers and concerns me.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Therein lies the problem with America today. Peple are so shortsighted, as you so eloquently described me, that they don't realize how politics,religion,world events, are going to affect them 5-10 years down the road. You see, Americans have this mindset, "If it doesn't affect me immediately, I am not worried about it." Now, Gazrok, that's shortsighted and pretty stupid to boot.

I didn't say I agreed with it, just pointing out a little realism here.

Americans have this mindset, "If it doesn't affect me immediately, I am not worried about it." Now, Gazrok, that's shortsighted and pretty stupid to boot.

Americans aren't alone here...we're in plenty of company....i.e. any other industrialized nation. Problems are solved for one reason...and that is when it becomes too expensive to NOT do something about them. Sure I'd love to stop global warming... Can I afford a new hybrid? no, still paying on my vehicle. Can I afford increased taxes to pay for research? no, I live in FL, where ALL of our taxes just went up to pay for hurricanes that never really seem to hit us hard anyhow.

We're continually ticking off lunatics who want to blow us up, we're likely headed for a third world war...somehow, geological issues that will take eons to be a serious threat are seen as the least of our worries....

Originally posted by Gazrok
Americans aren't alone here...we're in plenty of company....i.e. any other industrialized nation.

I tell you what you do...go to any big city in the United States and do a survey..

Walk up to any number of individuals and show them a picture of Dick Cheney and see if they can tell you who he is. I lay you odds,matter fact, I already know this to be true because there have already been surveys like this done, that sixty to seventy percent of the people don't know who he is.That is how out of touch Americans are. They think he's a freakin movie actor or something silly like that.

You can't tell me that people in Tokyo or Paris are that uninformed and make me believe it. However, they are certainly that uninformed in American cities such as New York, Boston,Houston and Los Angeles....There is research to back that up...so...

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 15-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by ThinksYouAreAnIdiot

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
I've yet to hear anyone answer the questions I posted above.

Here they are again> What good is having a job if the air you breathe is not healthy? What good are vehicles if you can't drive them because of massive flooding due to polar ice caps melting? What good are nice houses if the land you live on cannot grow food?



[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

What good is it asking a question based on a false premise? What good is it asking questions which are overexaggerated hyperbole? How does awnsering a question which is in truth nothing more than an exaggerated strawman argument in any way shape or form constructive?

do you even know what would happen if excessive melting occurs in the polar ice caps and if they shrink, well guess what do you see most of the coastal united states would be wiped of the map, europes coast will be long gone and cities will be flooded, most coasts would be flooded and the continental percentage of the earth would go down. now tell me do you really like the idea of 100's of millions, maybe even billions, of people dying, i hope not.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by Essan
"Let me ask you a question. What good is having a job if the air you breathe is not healthy? What good are vehicles if you can't drive them because of massive flooding due to polar ice caps melting? What good are nice houses if the land you live on cannot grow food?

Answer those questions and we will proceed from there with your argument.

1) A job creates a service which is rewarded by some compensation (generally monetary in nature). Money can then be used to pay for healthcare to alleviate the effects of unhealthy air.
2)This question assumes that polar melting will cover all land in which case I suggest using a boat.
3)Houses still provide much needed protection from the elements. I'll be honest, I do not have a green thumb and have never been the best at raising crops, but there have been some pretty cool advances in hydroponics and you can create pretty good planting soil through composting.

Basically, all three of the above questions can be answered by stating man's one true purpose in life: the quest to impress women. Women like a guy with a job, nice car (or boat depending on the situation), and a house, so that they can through the trade of sex, they can influence why men make money, what vehicle they drive, and what kind of place they live in.

Just thought I'd answer the 3 questions.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
What good is having a job if the air you breathe is not healthy?

It's not good, but tell that to the welders who work in a nastier environment than you've thought about. They do it to raise their kids out of that mess, and because they don't have to get into a buttload of debt to work there (via college). Imporve the situation that puts them in such jobs, and then you've got room to do some things.

What good are vehicles if you can't drive them because of massive flooding due to polar ice caps melting?

We've seen a lot of melting, and I still don't see the water rising down here, sha. Where's de proof dat de water is rising? An unusual ammount of water has melted, so where did it go, if not to flood my coastal back yard, hmm?

What good are nice houses if the land you live on cannot grow food?

I grow food in pots of human treated soil. I can't grow food under my house's foundation, and I'm glad I can't, the roots break the foundation, thankyou.

My point? Prove that your issues are issue we've faced, and then we can answer you. No one's going to answer questions that haven't happened to them.

Walk up to any number of individuals and show them a picture of Dick Cheney and see if they can tell you who he is. I lay you odds,matter fact, I already know this to be true because there have already been surveys like this done, that sixty to seventy percent of the people don't know who he is.That is how out of touch Americans are. They think he's a freakin movie actor or something silly like that.

You can't tell me that people in Tokyo or Paris are that uninformed and make me believe it. However, they are certainly that uninformed in American cities such as New York, Boston,Houston and Los Angeles....There is research to back that up...so...

A) What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? i.e. where's the relevance?

B) Even IF one conceded that other industrialized nations' populace is more informed (and I don't believe it, or surveys, having a thorough knowledge of statistics, and knowing that for every survey with one result, I can give you one with the opposite), that STILL wouldn't mean said populace ACTED on such information.

C) As the world's largest exporter AND consumer, sure we're going to be more inclined to keep our lives just as they are, but other industrialized nations want to stay that way too.

The bottom line is that solutions are implemented...just gradually, making them economically feasible. Example. Each year I bet we see more and more hybrid cars. Eventually, that's all we'll see. But it will take time. You do what you can, when you can. Being aware of the problem is one thing. Proposing viable solutions, is quite another.

u r doing exacly what is expected of u,catastropising the truth.
the power that be r expecting u, n people like u to become excited n react,well done 1 more for the n.w.o!

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by bkcrt

This, however, does not mean that we should not do what we can to help the environment, but for our sakes, not for the planets sake.

The problem with what you said is that everything is interconnected. If the planet doesn't exist,then we surely do not. So, if we do it, it will have to begin as a project for the planet's sake.

The planet can and has existed without out us. Think about it.

Originally posted by bkcrt

The planet can and has existed without out us. Think about it.

True, and it will continue to exist whether we are here or not. However, my point is, why should we be the destroyers of it?