Folks, This Is Getting Serious

Originally posted by ThinksYouAreAnIdiot

Again explain the medievil warm period.
Or the Little ice age.
Or the fact that the geological record shows the earth has been warming consistantly except fot those two periods for 10,000 years.
None of which can be blamed on humanity.

I suggest you take a look at this: www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org...

It gives you pictures of exactly what is occurring on earth right now. I am not concerned about what happened 80,000 years ago. I'm concerned with what's going on now and what we can do to either prevent it, or cut our losses.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

I suggest you take a look at this: www.worldviewofglobalwarming.org...

It gives you pictures of exactly what is occurring on earth right now. I am not concerned about what happened 80,000 years ago.

Theres your problem. Thats like trying to understand the Isreali/palestinian problem without looking at anything that happened prior to 1999.
History teaches us what has happened and what could happen again.

I'm concerned with what's going on now and what we can do to either prevent it, or cut our losses.

Without understanding what has happened in the past how exactly do you expect to accomplish that?
My point is that if the same things are happening now, as happened prior to human kinds emergence as a species, why are we so quick to assume we are responsible for the current warming, when we know we weren't responsible for previous warmings?
Doesn't it make more sense that the same forces at work then are at work now?
We know periods of warming that were more intense, and faster, have happened at times when humans could not possibly be the reasons, so doesn't it stand to reason we may be as irrelevant to climatic conditions now as we were before our species evolved?

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss
The world will warm up but the Earth has a feedback mechanism. What will happen is that once the artice ice melts into the Atlantic Ocean it will switch off the Gulf Stream plunging certaintly Northern Europe into a new ice age. This is because the freshwater ice does not mix with saltwater. North America will be affected too. I also reckon the extensive above ground nuke tests in the 40's/50's did alot of damage to the weather systems too. People tend to forget about this human folly too.

.

It is true that the earth does have mechanisms to protect itself sort of speak. However, once those mechanisms are activated, it's not going to be too pleasant for the human race. The time to pay the piper is approaching.

Anyway, there are estimates that thirty years from now, the world will look much different than itdoes today. Now, as "thinksyouareanidiot" stated, not all of these projections are correct. That is true. However, I suspect that since we are better able to prognosticate these things than we were in the 70s,I guess,I wasn't born until 1977, I would think that the projections of today are a lot more reliable than they were thirty years ago.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

It is true that the earth does have mechanisms to protect itself sort of speak. However, once those mechanisms are activated, it's not going to be too pleasant for the human race. The time to pay the piper is approaching.

The Human rac e survived an Ice gae when our highest technology was a flaming stick, and there were less than 10,000 humans on the entire planet. I think we'll be OK.

Anyway, there are estimates that thirty years from now, the world will look much different than itdoes today. Now, as "Ithinkyoureanidiot" stated, not all of these projections are correct. That is true. However, I suspect that since we are better able to prognosticate these things than we were in the 70s,I guess,I wasn't born until 1977, I would think that the projections of today are a lot more reliable than they were thirty years ago.

Then why hasn't weather prediction gotten any better?

"Thinks" it may seem like I am arguing with you, but I do understand where you are coming from. You do have to understand what has happened in the past, but I guess it depends on how much faith you put into believeing that all of this has happened before. I don't necessarily buy that it has happened before.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
"Thinks" it may seem like I am arguing with you, but I do understand where you are coming from. You do have to understand what has happened in the past, but I guess it depends on how much faith you put into believeing that all of this has happened before. I don't necessarily but that it has happened before.

Science, by its nature, should not be an article of faith for anyone. It should not inspire faith, it should not be seen with faith.
Science is about meticulous, verification.
It is about evidence, and experimentation.
The problem is all you "true belivers" treat "global warming" like some angry god that must be appeased.
Faith doesn't enter in to it.
The evidence shows that it has happened before. We have verified records of it happening before. We know it has happened before, yet you choose to have "faith" in a theory which has yet to be proven, whose most influential early studies have been shown to be fraudulent, (such as the famed hockey stick graph) and directly contradicts a good deal of what we know about the past.

But hey, have "faith" maybe if you recylce really hard, your afterlife will be warming free.

Originally posted by ThinksYouAreAnIdiot
But hey, have "faith" maybe if you recylce really hard, your afterlife will be warming free.

Or perhaps we can continue to "subdue" the earth and suffer the later consequences....You see, I understand what you are saying. However, what you are a proponent of is a two edged sword,my friend. Try to remember that.

I cannot believe that people are still whoo hooing about it all being a cycle.

There was permafrost for the last 10,000 years. Its been frozen since the last ice age, and nothing the planets natural cycles have done has EVER defrosted that permafrost.

Now, this research base in the program was set up in 1982 to study deep layers of ice. Now, its on the shores of a lake! A lake ... And as they stated, this is the first time since the ice age there has been a melting of the permafrost...

yes i know the world does go through cycles, indeed with its wobble, and rotational variance its going to, but not to the extent that there is now more water in siberia than there is land... now it will freeze this winter they say, but heres the bad news - now the land has melted away, theres nothing to keep the ice and snow above it from seeping into the land... creating more run off as it thaws than the ground can cope with... this may lead to land slides and huge vast areas sinking under water.

Siberia IS caused by man - and we are the only ones that can stop it as we edge ever closer to the point of no return.

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght

Siberia IS caused by man - and we are the only ones that can stop it as we edge ever closer to the point of no return.

Several reports from the Pentagon and Nasa have already declared it a point of no return. Hey, it's amazing what a couple of centuries of "progress" can do to an environment. After all, real technology didn't take shape until the industrial period...so, we are only talking about a couple of centuries of ....environmental hazard.

Yet, there are people like "Thinks" who wants everyone to believe that all that is occurring is just a "blimp" on the evolutionary radar screen. I'm sorry but I'm not biting. I have heard the arguments from both sides and I am certainly not convinced by the "nothing is wrong" proponents.

I would believe it if things weren't taking place at the rate that they are taking place. However, it's gotten crazy. Everytime one watches the news you hear about floods,earthquakes in strage places. Hell, we just had an earthquake in Florida a few days ago....Florida!!

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by D4rk Kn1ght
Siberia IS caused by man - and we are the only ones that can stop it as we edge ever closer to the point of no return.

Now someone correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Mt. St. Helens belch out more carbon into the atmosphere in 1980 than man has in all history?

Of course it would be stupid to say that there is no global warming, but it would be just as stupid to say it caused by man.

Originally posted by cavscout

Now someone correct me if I am wrong but didn’t Mt. St. Helens belch out more carbon into the atmosphere in 1980 than man has in all history?

Of course it would be stupid to say that there is no global warming, but it would be just as stupid to say it caused by man.

You all act as if man's pollution is no more harmful than nature's,when in fact it is very much so. When chemical plants throw out toxic waste, it's not just throwing out pure carbon dioxide, but bensene and a host of other toxic chemicals. The pollution that man throws into the atmosphere is much more toxic than anything nature throws into the ozone. That's a fact.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

This posting belongs on more than one thread but I'll put it here too.

Please people please! Read all you can about the subject before you start posting your uneducated, bias opinions. To often I read a blog or a posting full of intelligent, educated, opinions and then about every 3 messages is someone who is to busy reading only one side of the arguement. Half of you fighting to save the earth don't know what the ozone layer is made of.

That being said....

There is no way we can know if this is a natural cyucle of the earth or not as our records of ice depths do not go back far enough to tell. We have records of things back about 4000 years. The earth is much, MUCH, older than this. This, however, does not mean that we should not do what we can to help the environment, but for our sakes, not for the planets sake.

Life is hard to create, but is even harder to destroy. We may wipe ourselves out but life as a whole spreads like wildfire. So saving the environment is important to us because we are weak compared to the other creatures that could survive such a problem.

Now....

I personally think there is no evidence to suggest that anything that is happening now is unnatural because we have no counter evidence. The temperatures of the planet do fluctuate, both hot and cold.

So, save the planet, recycle, and drive a hybrid if you want but please stop freaking out.

Originally posted by bkcrt

This, however, does not mean that we should not do what we can to help the environment, but for our sakes, not for the planets sake.

The problem with what you said is that everything is interconnected. If the planet doesn't exist,then we surely do not. So, if we do it, it will have to begin as a project for the planet's sake.

Causes of Global Warming

Activity
Percent Contribution to Global Warming

Energy use and production
57%

Chlorofluorocarbons
17%

Agricultural practices
14%

Changes in land use
9%

Other industrial activities
3%

Source: C&EN, March 27, 1989, p. 22, from the US Environmental Protection Agency.

The above table shows the major causes of global warming, and lists them in order based on the percentage of global warming they have caused.

At the top is energy production, which far outranks any other source of global warming and accounts for more than half of all global warming.

Energy production creates greenhouse gases through the burning of fossil fuels. Until renewable, non-polluting methods of energy production are developed, energy production will likely remain at the top of this list.

Chlorofluorocarbons, or CFCs, rank second in the list. In recent times, public awareness about the dangers of CFCs has increased in some of the more developed countries. As a result, people are beginning to call for decreases in the consumption of products that produce CFCs.

So you still don't think human activity impacts the environment? Be for real...

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Causes of Global Warming

Activity
Percent Contribution to Global Warming

Energy use and production
57%

Chlorofluorocarbons
17%

Agricultural practices
14%

Changes in land use
9%

Other industrial activities
3%

Source: C&EN, March 27, 1989, p. 22, from the US Environmental Protection Agency.

Man, use your head!

The above list is 100% (supposedly) of the causes for global warming, and they are all man made. Like I said, Mt.St. Helens released more ozone destroying carbon into the atmosphere than all man made sources combined.

Your article somehow leaves volcanoes out of the 100%

Your article is false (a lie)

You will look past any truth to support your nature worship?

You are blinded by faith.


[edit on 14-9-2006 by cavscout]

originally posted by cavscout
You will look past any truth to support your nature worship?

Now I worship nature... Okay....I'll bite....

Surely, you realize that we are throwing other toxic chemicals in the air other than carbon dioxide,which is actually a natural gas. You do realize that,don't you? Surely you do.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Just to be fair, here is a link you can use to find out about the effects volcanoes do have on the environment...They do have an effect;I'm not debating that fact.

www.geology.sdsu.edu...

Suspended particles, such as dust and ash, can block out the earth's sunlight, thus reducing solar radiation and lowering mean global temperatures. The haze effect often generates exceptionally red sunsets due to the scattering of red wavelengths by submicron-size particles in the stratosphere and upper troposphere.

[edit on 14-9-2006 by SpeakerofTruth]

Has greenland always been covered with ice?

How were the fjords formed in Finland? (That's Glaciers)...where are they now? how long idid it take for them to melt?

Do you know 'speaker-of-truth'?

A ton of bricks is falling on your head.

But wait, God dropped them, NO, man dropped them, NO, Mother nature dropped them, NO, aliens dropped them.

Sheesh by the time the worlds idiots figured out who dropped the ton of bricks they will be laying underneath them.

This smacks of another way to keep us all fighting each other while a 10,000 foot tsunami is headed your way.

Prepare or perish friends.

Originally posted by Rusty Blunderbuss
A ton of bricks is falling on your head.

But wait, God dropped them, NO, man dropped them, NO, Mother nature dropped them, NO, aliens dropped them.

Sheesh by the time the worlds idiots figured out who dropped the ton of bricks they will be laying underneath them.

This smacks of another way to keep us all fighting each other while a 10,000 foot tsunami is headed your way.

Prepare or perish friends.

Like I said, no one wants to be held accountable. Accountability is the single biggest issue in the world today. It doesn't matter what subject you are dealing with, politics,religion,environment, et cetera, no one wants to be held accountable.