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The perfect pistol for me?

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posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 11:40 PM
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I have had a "pellet" shooting version of the HK USP .45 for a long time now. I have decided to purchase a firearm sometime soon. And I think I want the real version of my pellet gun! I have researched everywhere. Technically, I loved my pellet version. It is the same size and shape. Main difference is in lack of magazine and thinner rifled barrel. I have a laser for it which should fit on the real thing cuz the laser rail and gun is the same size. I have looked on many websites, seen posts from proud HK USP .45/.40 owners. About 90% of the people gave the pistol a 5 star rating. Great comments about NO JAMS, CONFORTABILITy, and PRETTY GOOD ACCURACY AND GROUPING (at least compared to the Glock) I actually once wanted a Glock, but that is out of question. And since I'm used to the pellet version, this is good. So, now is the question. IS THAT THE BEST PISTOL FOR ME TO GET? When I mean best, I mean successfully combining POWER, ACCURACY, DURABILITY, and HANDLING OF THE GUN (ie confortable, etc) If this is not the best pistol for me, what is? I know of the SPRINGFIELD XD .45 ACP/GAP pistol. Is that one better? Any HK USP .45 users out there? What are the pros? cons? What to expect from it? Once again, I would appreciate suggestions about OTHER guns out there, too. I'm totally open. I got time to consider this. I right now want the HK USP .45, but based on this thread, that may or may not change. All advice is greatly appreciated! Thanks!




posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 11:57 PM
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The HK USP is a fine firearm. Accurate and able to use double stacked magazines. They are expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for.

The only drawback I can see is if you don't like the recoil of a .45, or if you have small hands, as any double stacked .45 is a little bulky.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 12:29 AM
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Greeting comrade, I'm a retired USAF NCO. If you're a novice firearm shooter, I suggest that you acclimate yourself to firing a firearm first with a .22 rimfire semi-auto pistol that is similar in design to your preferred pistol that you intend to own. The ammo is cheaper and rimfires are easier to control recoil. Too many novice shooters step into a full power rounds and will get turned off of practicing because of the recoil. Do you know what real 'gun control' is? Putting bullets exactly where you want them to go.
The shooter who can accurately fire his/her gun is to be far more feared and respected than the gang banger spraying bullets all over the place. If you can't get a lot of range time with your semi-auto, I suggest the old fashioned revolver for a self-defense weapon. They don't jam and misfired rounds can be wheeled past. I have both rimfires and full powered centerfire semiauto pistols. My Ruger 22/45 gets more workout then my CZ-52 pistol. In a self defense situation, I wouldn't be afraid to use either.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 11:31 AM
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practice practice..practice.

Shooting .45 can be expensive ..even if you reload.

If you have never fired a real firearm...beginging with a affordable .22 caliber is a good idea. Work you way up to the caliber..dont start at the caliber and work your way down the ladder.

Agree with crgntx about a wheel gun too.. Well said.

For all round fun and econmomy I like my .22 caliber ..in rifles as well as pistols. Hard to beat this caliber for training.

When I up the seriousness another notch I switch to .38/357 or .45 ACP. However costs go up here..rapidly. Keep your ammo budget in mind here. It is a factor!!!

Dicipline Dicipline...Dicipline....not a bunch of wildlife out here making noise and styling and profiling.

Well stated Crgintx....thanks Chief!!

Orangetom



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 02:38 PM
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The 2 above great info.
Get some firearms training. There is a world of differance in the responcabilty between pellet and fire arm. Please do not think that you know about gun ownership and safety until you have had some formal training.
MY$.02
Stay safe.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 03:04 PM
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Slide release on USP is pretty far, in Practical use it may be a problem for a small handed person...

My choise for a .45 pistol would be the big brother of my trusty CZ-75b:
the CZ-97, It beats the USP in handling (personal preference)

CZ-97




posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 03:34 PM
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I was going to start a thread similar to this one. So in the interest of time, space and the fact that we already have some gun experts here, I'll just throw my questions out here...

I have never in my life fired a gun. However, in this day and age I am interested in purchasing a firearm for protection at home. For a male, I have fairly small hands. I am interested in something with a clip rather than a revolver (just a personal preference). I want something that has an easy trigger and as little recoil as possible. But at the same time, I don't want a pea-shooter. I don't want to have to empty 2 clips into a home-invader before he even drops to the ground.

To address any concerns that members may have, there is an excellent firing range/gun shop/etc. near my home. It's actually the place where our town's police force trains as well as many neighboring towns go. I plan on taking whatever courses I can at this range, including safety and gun maintenance/cleaning. I would just like to have some kind of idea of what type of gun would be good for me before I walk into the place.

Of course there's one more factor I forgot to mention... I'm a young guy, in school with a part-time and not-well-paying job! So costs are a big factor for me. I don't want to completely sacrifice quality, safety or reliability, but I do want to do my best to keep the gun and ammunition somewhat affordable. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out here!

PS- I live in New Jersey (USA) so our gun laws here are very strict. I can't go to any "gun shows" or purchase any guns online (that I know of).



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 03:56 PM
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Everyone has hit upon the training issue so...

I've shot the USP and Glock in .45 calibers pretty extensively, and found both to be extremely reliable. The HK just a tad bit more so. However, I like the Glock 21 a little better because of the trigger pull and one more round in the mag. I also think the Glock is a little bit easier on the recoil. Plus, its downright simple to operate. I know many people, men and women of all sizes, who switched from the Sig 220 to the Glock 21, and their scores went up dramatically. The USP trigger pull is a little long and heavy on the first shot, for my taste. If you want a USP, I advise going with the USP Tactical, which makes a pricey gun even more expensive, but will pay off with a better barrel and much better trigger.

The Springfield XD 45 is getting pretty good reviews, and is a little less expensive than the Glock, so you may want to go that direction, too.

Rasputin13, if you are looking for economy, the Springfield XD series may be the way to go. They have been improved since their conception and are getting a good reputation.

Good luck. I hate expensive decisions.

[edit on 9/14/2006 by hogtie]



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 06:42 PM
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You cant go wrong with either pistol. However if your set on getting a 45 then the XD might be better if you have small hands.

If this is your first firearm I STRONGLY recommend taking a safety coarse and a pistol combat coarse from a qualified instructor!!!! A good instructor can teach you techniques developed through decades of experience , study and training . Things that you just cant learn on your own.



posted on Sep, 14 2006 @ 09:03 PM
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All of the pistols recomended are good choices.

If your looking for cheap and reliable in .45, I prefer a Springfield, but not the XD.

But then again I'm biased towards 1911 style.

www.springfield-armory.com...

I got mine for $485 after taxes and it shoots reliably and accurately every time.

Another beautiful thing about the 1911's is that accesories are very easy to find. Hogue grips and combat sights only set me back another hundred and the shop had them in stock.

Only 8+1, but 10 rounders are available, but stick out too much for concealed carry.

However, if eight shots isnt enough, your probably screwed anyhow.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 12:23 AM
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If you have a local gun shop with a range that is a good thing. Instructors will work with you.

Also ..many gun ranges will rent you a gun to try out. This is a good method to try out a gun before you settle on a particular one.

Get good instruction and be safe.

Dont be in any hurry in making a purchase....especially if you are working in a tight budget. Dont let anyone rush you here. Think it through with good information and get the best value for your hard earned moneys which suits you the best...not anyone else.

Do... speak with your instructors about your concerns and desires for a gun purchase.

One more thing Rasputin 13. I dont consider myself a gun expert. I know some things about firearms and ...other tools and safety. I belong to a gun club and have been taught some basics by olde timers for which and to whom I am very grateful. I have actually gone to the club several times.. intending to shoot but never did. I spent a few hours listening to these olde timers talk..drank alot of coffee...and asked questions about matters of which they spoke but I was unfamiliar with the concepts. They were glad to explain them to me.

Good luck in your plans and keep them in the X ring,

Orangetom



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 03:21 AM
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All the advice has been greatly appreciated! I have plenty of time before I actually buy a pistol, a couple of months. In that amount of time, I will make time to go to a range, take classes, and practice with some sort of firearm before I get the pistol.

As for the pistol itself, I guess the choice is probably either an HK USP .45 or a Springfield XD .45, though I sort of am leaning toward the HK. And, btw, what is the HK USP Tactical? Is it a better version? I am ready to spend good money, as long as I get what I want, which is quality, power, and accuracy,,,er and no jams. After all, I am seeking a useful tool which must serve me for many years. I'd rather spend too much on something good then too little on something crappy, know what I mean?

Any HK USP or Springfield XD owners please speak up. I got time to think about the gun which will serve me best. Thanks!
'



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by LeftBehind
The HK USP is a fine firearm. Accurate and able to use double stacked magazines. They are expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for.

The only drawback I can see is if you don't like the recoil of a .45, or if you have small hands, as any double stacked .45 is a little bulky.



I may not be tall, but I am big, buff, well built, and strong. Recoil, I know about this and will train to defeat it. My rifle, a Hunter 220 pellet rifle that shoots at a whooping 1000 feet per second, has very strong recoil and I even bruised my shoulder from the recoil. But, the question is, how much more of a recoil will the HK have then my rifle? And yes, the rifle jumps back, but I still manage to hit tiny oranges that I place on top of the fence. My pistol, too, has recoil, and moves when I shoot it, but compared to the recoil of my rifle and a real pistol, the recoil is cake. My rifle has been my main source of shooting practice, but I'll be sure to try other stuff. Note that pellets are very cheap, unlike bullets, but I'll switch to practicing with a firearm as soon as possible. I'll either practice with one of my friends' firearms, or rent one, as I saw someone on this thread stated.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 07:18 AM
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My rifle, a Hunter 220 pellet rifle that shoots at a whooping 1000 feet per second, has very strong recoil and I even bruised my shoulder from the recoil


Considering the pellet will have MUCH less weight i think around 10 - 15 grains?? and a 185 grain 45 bullet exceeds 1000fps yes the pistol will have more a drastic (at least 12 times as much ) amount of recoil compared to your rifle pellet gun and even more than that when compared to the pellet pistol. That being said I imagine the pellet rifle is spring operated? This takes a very big and powerful spring to mechanically launch a projectile at 1000 fps. If it has the ability to bruise your shoulder then its probably due to the kick of the large spring rather than the pellet being accelerated.

BTW where do you live at?

A good pistol training coarse is very important. Find a good safety and pistol training coarse and take it.!!! You will learn the very important safety RULES. You will learn the proper grips for shooting , stances for your body for various positions , the proper sight picture , reloading techniques , concealed cover techniques, movement techniques.... The skill gained from shooting while being coached by a good instructor can benefit you much more than the small differences of caliber / brand of pistol that you decide on so long as its a decent firearm.


[edit on 15-9-2006 by Heckman]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 03:38 PM
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Great advice. I'm in California right now. In about 7 or 8 months I'm gonna go back to Russia and join the army.


Thanks for the advice.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
I was going to start a thread similar to this one. So in the interest of time, space and the fact that we already have some gun experts here, I'll just throw my questions out here...

I have never in my life fired a gun. However, in this day and age I am interested in purchasing a firearm for protection at home. For a male, I have fairly small hands. I am interested in something with a clip rather than a revolver (just a personal preference). I want something that has an easy trigger and as little recoil as possible. But at the same time, I don't want a pea-shooter. I don't want to have to empty 2 clips into a home-invader before he even drops to the ground.

To address any concerns that members may have, there is an excellent firing range/gun shop/etc. near my home. It's actually the place where our town's police force trains as well as many neighboring towns go. I plan on taking whatever courses I can at this range, including safety and gun maintenance/cleaning. I would just like to have some kind of idea of what type of gun would be good for me before I walk into the place.

Of course there's one more factor I forgot to mention... I'm a young guy, in school with a part-time and not-well-paying job! So costs are a big factor for me. I don't want to completely sacrifice quality, safety or reliability, but I do want to do my best to keep the gun and ammunition somewhat affordable. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out here!

PS- I live in New Jersey (USA) so our gun laws here are very strict. I can't go to any "gun shows" or purchase any guns online (that I know of).


Advice point #1: Bigger is not always better. You'll hear people saying get a big gun, but that's not always true. I know that for me a .357 would be uncomfortable. Even a .45 can get heavy depending on how much shooting I'm doing. I recommend a full frame 9mm, or even a .22. .22s have more power than you realize, for such a small round.

Advice point #2: As was stated above work with a gun instructor. Take the NRA firearms course if you can find one near you. I personally am not a big fan of the NRA, but their training course is very good, and you shoot many different types of guns in it. My sister took one and even got to shoot black powder one day.

Advice point #3: Practice practice practice. Learn GOOD handling/shooting habits, and practice them. A lot. The more you practice the more it becomes second nature to you. It can get expensive depending on the weapon you go with, but believe me, if someone comes into the home, you don't want to suddenly find out that you're so panicked you forgot what to do.

Not a gun expert, but shot a few.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Rasputin13
edit
I have never in my life fired a gun. However, in this day and age I am interested in purchasing a firearm for protection at home. For a male, I have fairly small hands. I am interested in something with a clip rather than a revolver (just a personal preference). I want something that has an easy trigger and as little recoil as possible. But at the same time, I don't want a pea-shooter. I don't want to have to empty 2 clips into a home-invader before he even drops to the ground.
edit
Of course there's one more factor I forgot to mention... I'm a young guy, in school with a part-time and not-well-paying job! So costs are a big factor for me. I don't want to completely sacrifice quality, safety or reliability, but I do want to do my best to keep the gun and ammunition somewhat affordable. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me out here!
PS- I live in New Jersey (USA) so our gun laws here are very strict. I can't go to any "gun shows" or purchase any guns online (that I know of).


Well, Mad Monk, I'll make a simple declaration of fact, even the lowly .22 rimfire is deadly at most handgun shooting incident ranges. In fact it has better penetration power than the .45 ACP round mention by Russian Soldier earlier. The big bore rounds will incapacitate an opponent better but will not kill him any better than a .22rf. If you point and shoot a firearm at someone, the idea is to kill him before he can hurt you or your loved ones. A doubletap from a .22 rf to the skull or heart will do the job just as well as .45 ACP.
Since your on a limited budget and have small hands, I recommend the LLama MicroMax series semi-auto's in .32ACP or .380 ACP. I own a .380 ACP Micromax. It's basically Gov't Model shrunk down to the .380 ACP. With good hollowpoint ammo, it's a very practical self defense gun.
A word about the mighty .45 ACP in any platform, anyone can pull a trigger and and you might actually hit someone with it without a lot of practice but I wouldn't bet on it. The .45 ACP take alot of practice to master to hit your target with the first round in a stressfull situation. Even with light 185 grain bullets, the recoil is fierce and followup shots are often off the mark for novice shooters.
Actually, if I were to own a single firearm for self defense, it would be a pump action shotgun in .410 or 16 gage. Nothing put the fear of imminent death into an intruder on a dark night like the sound of pump action shotgun being racked.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by Russian soldier
Great advice. I'm in California right now. In about 7 or 8 months I'm gonna go back to Russia and join the army.


Thanks for the advice.


Good Luck, Comrade. Depsite my being in the US military for 20 years, I've always favored the old ComBloc weapons for their ruggedness and dependibility. They are like the weapons of the American Old West, they're meant for field use. The Tokorev TT-33 is a great pistol and now that Wolf Ammo is making hollowpoints in 7.62x25mm, it will make a much better self defense pistol. I have a CZ-52 with an aftermarket barrel which I use as my carry gun in the south Texas brush. With my handloaded hollowpoint bullet rounds, they are very effective on wild pigs.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:35 PM
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The posts regarding the .22 LR and wheel guns are dead on... A .22 makes economic sense, and if you think a 1,000 fps spring air rifle has recoil it may be a good place to start (I have a Beeman R1 so I have a point of reference). A .38/.357 wheel gun is a great single choice when looking for a multipurpose handgun.

My next concern is you must be 21 years of age to legally purchase a handgun, and handgun ammunition. My guess is that you aren't (someone purchasing it for you is illegal). It's called a "strawman purchase" and is specifically outlined on the Federal Firearms Transfer Record Form 4473 (see item 12a).

All that aside, a .45 ACP to consider is the new Taurus Millennium Pro.

www.gunblast.com...

www.gunsandammomag.com...

I have a friend of mine who is a ANG cop/Deputy Sheriff and I can't get him to shut up about the damn thing. He swears I'll trade in my Glock as soon as empty one magazine through the little beast. It remains to be seen, but this guy doesn't usually get exited unless a gun can punch nothing but X ring, drive you home after a few beers, do the laundry and cleaning... And cook dinner! (I'm still keeping my eyes glued to the Shotgun News for those to show up in stock).


Good luck.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:08 PM
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I went through this same thing with my father in law a few months ago. He has served in two branches of the military is into competitive shooting and is one of those insanely intelligent gun guys. Basically he gave me two options a Browning 1911 model .45 caliber or a P1 nine milimeter. They are both awesome but I chose the P1 since I am given to all things german and it was less expensive. However, given that your are intent on joining the Russian army you probably wouldn't want to use the P1 for historical reasons. Nine milimeters are much less expensive to shoot than .45 and the guns cost less too. You could consider a makarov but I found them kinda cheaply made. Nothing against Russian guns. I love the AK-47, like the SKS, and am searching for a WWII 7.62x54 Mosin Nagant sniper rifle but the makarov's are crap.

For the guy in new jersey I would recommend the P1 or a rossi 38 special. The rossi will cost less than the smith and wesson 38 special and is basically the same gun. Before you ask the 38 special will take down anyone you need to as long as you use hollow points. Since your in new jersey which gets pretty cold I'll tell you the same thing my father in law told me. Use hollow points in the summer and soft point when its cold. Too many layers turn a hollow point into a cookie cutter and diminish its ability to cause damage. The layers will make the soft point squash up slow it down and cause more damage than it would with less layers. Never use round ball for self defense when its warm. Double tap heart and forehead. Look in the classifieds surely you can find someone who will sell you a gun without making you jump through the legal red tape.



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