Originally posted by TheBorg...Well, I'm willing to admit that, but only after I'm proven wrong.

Damnit Borg, that is the only proof you will get! They could be Imperial Walkers for all I know! Now sumpin's up w/these, and it is just too much to take in all at once.

There are those stones that leave trails in Death Valley, although no one to my knowledge has ever seen it done...

Now we have to rescour the Moon for "walkers"! Sheesh

Originally posted by braddman
FYI regarding the shadow, just because the shadow is long, doesn't mean the object is tall. If the sun is at a steep angle it would cause this.

Very true that is why I compared it to other objects in the image. If the object was not tall and it was only the angle of the sun, then the other rocks there would cast the SAME shadow...
They do NOT...only the one object has the long shadow


Also if you all recall the discussion of scale in the Copernicus images, since this picture was taken by Lunar Orbiter V, the same distance and scale applies as in Copernicus #5 in other words, the "boulder" would be several hundred feet across




[edit on 1-2-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Matyas
Damnit Borg, that is the only proof you will get! They could be Imperial Walkers for all I know! Now sumpin's up w/these, and it is just too much to take in all at once.

No, it's not. We can go to the moon and look for ourselves!! What's the big holdup? Better yet, turn Hubble on her, and take some snapshots. I know that Hubble can see those objects, and determine just WHAT they are, if anything. I mean, it can see galaxies millions of lightyears away, yet it can't pick out the stars on the US flag placed on the Lunar surface? Again, not buyin it.

There are those stones that leave trails in Death Valley, although no one to my knowledge has ever seen it done...

Good point, and one that I forgot about. Maybe we should look into them a bit more for guidance.

Now we have to rescour the Moon for "walkers"! Sheesh

Agreed. We need to do something, .

Seriously man, relax. It's ok that we disagree about the nature of this anomaly. That's what makes for interesting conversation. Hell, if we all just agreed on everything, then this board would be quite boring, and no one would be here. It's only when we put our collective heads together on something that we find the truth on it. It's that comraderie that I admire about this place.

Thanks for your input. Ya gave me something to think about.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg

No, it's not. We can go to the moon and look for ourselves!! What's the big holdup?

Matyas hasn't finished getting the bugs out of the drive unit yet...

Better yet, turn Hubble on her, and take some snapshots. I know that Hubble can see those objects, and determine just WHAT they are, if anything.

Not likely going to happen... IF there is something going on up there why would NASA let us use their telescope to have a look see? Mt Palomar could... but they won't... they says scientists would rather study the moon via satelite... so again NASA has the control...

I mean, it can see galaxies millions of lightyears away, yet it can't pick out the stars on the US flag placed on the Lunar surface? Again, not buyin it.

Maybe we could raise money and buy some time on the Ikonos Satellite... its only about 2 grand per picture...

There are those stones that leave trails in Death Valley, although no one to my knowledge has ever seen it done...

Good point, and one that I forgot about. Maybe we should look into them a bit more for guidance.

Oh yes lets! So ummmm how come everyone is ignoring the SIZE of that "wandering boulder" Hmmm? Kinda important... no matter what the Lunar gravity is like.

I am going to try to work out a scale. Maybe they have that info at USGS




Now we have to rescour the Moon for "walkers"! Sheesh

Agreed. We need to do something, .

Seriously man, relax. It's ok that we disagree about the nature of this anomaly. That's what makes for interesting conversation. Hell, if we all just agreed on everything, then this board would be quite boring, and no one would be here. It's only when we put our collective heads together on something that we find the truth on it. It's that comraderie that I admire about this place.

Thanks for your input. Ya gave me something to think about.

TheBorg

Originally posted by TheBorg
I know that Hubble can see those objects, and determine just WHAT they are, if anything. I mean, it can see galaxies millions of lightyears away, yet it can't pick out the stars on the US flag placed on the Lunar surface? Again, not buyin it.

TheBorg

I'm going to be as polite as possible here. First and foremost, you're daft. You're not daft for being ignorant, you're daft for being ignorant and forming a strong opinion on that which you know nothing about.

The Moon is 384,400 km away. At that distance, the smallest things Hubble can distinguish are about 60 meters wide. The biggest piece of left-behind Apollo equipment is only 9 meters across and thus smaller than a single pixel in a Hubble image.

Dumb dumb dumb.

[edit on 2-2-2007 by Space Guy]

Originally posted by Matyas

Originally posted by TheBorg...Or are they hidden by a backside approach?

I have already considered this part of your deeper inquiry. The backside is ideal for concealment, add to this reduced energy cost in comparison to Earth launched waves of missiles. That is why I doubt the Chinese will make it to the Moon, not any time soon. We will have a cold war with them first and you have ten years to see if I am right.

So, in my opinion it always has been a top secet military operation, and is meant to be continued as such in the forseeable future.

[edit on 1/31/2007 by Matyas]

Firstly, Mat (Can I call you mat? I mean, Matyas is toooo long. Saves time and space, what?! ), I don't fully agree with you when you say that you doubt the Chinese will make it to the Moon. You think the US of A has the guts and resources to aggressively stop them? Nah!

Second, What about the Indian Moon shot? The Chandrayaan 1, which will be launched later this year, is a remote-sensing spacecraft, which has sophisticated instruments aboard including the miniature synthetic aperture radar – mini-SAR, and will map the lunar surface using an array of sensors.

Now the question is, will the lid be finally blown? Or does India have a secret pact with NASA for status quo? Was this the quid pro quo for the Indo-American nuclear deal??

There's so much going on behind vaulted doors, that I think its naive to imagine that the truth will finally be out. But then again, let's wait and see what happens when the Moon's photographs start trickling in!

Cheers!

Expanding Possibilities

Originally posted by Space Guy
I'm going to be as polite as possible here.

Please try harder and avoid resorting to insults to make your point -- especially since they don't make your point.

If you truly wish to be polite as possible, simply justifying your disagreement with facts will suffice.

Originally posted by mikesingh
Now the question is, will the lid be finally blown? Or does India have a secret pact with NASA for status quo? Was this the quid pro quo for the Indo-American nuclear deal??

There's no lid to blow off. John Lear is completely full of it; either he's mentally ill and believes himself or he's taking the piss. Done. Period. Over.

Of course the lack of any evidence won't appease the real conspiracy theorists; they'll just claim that the conspiracy runs even deeper.

Originally posted by Majic
If you truly wish to be polite as possible, simply justifying your disagreement with facts will suffice.

You mean these facts?:

The Moon is 384,400 km away. At that distance, the smallest things Hubble can distinguish are about 60 meters wide. The biggest piece of left-behind Apollo equipment is only 9 meters across and thus smaller than a single pixel in a Hubble image.

Sorry, but sometimes the posters on this site are so absurd it takes some ridicule to put them in line.

To quote Thomas Jefferson, "Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them..."

If you aren't a rocket scientist then find someone who is, read his stuff, and form a notion based on that expert opinion. Don't make statements like:

I mean, it can see galaxies millions of lightyears away, yet it can't pick out the stars on the US flag placed on the Lunar surface? Again, not buyin it.

when every astronomer out there (read: people who know what they're talking about) is going to rightly think you a fool.

There is a Space Guy in all of us

Borg, I wasn't so worked up as I wanted to work you up enough to realize that every time we find artifacts like this they won't be there when India or China gets there, much less us! And no, we don't have the qualifications to use other space hardware for the same job (...yet).

Sandman658- Now when do you suppose that technology came out for those inflatable houses (are quick enough to snatch the pebbles from my palm)?

Mikesingh- Just do so with two "t"(s) and it'll be good. I am not saying the truth is going to come out, in fact the exact opposite will happen. And the US can pick on anyone it wants, Iraq and Afghanistan were small fries.

Now with a fairly large sum of money, say around 30-50M I can build a reliable spacecraft that could reach any part of the solar system and carry whatever cargo is needed to get the job done. But we ain't gonna get our beamships without holding back on the best info, so I know it won't come out here either.

The curtain is going to have to come down on this act, and it would not be wise to play all the cards befire then...

Well, Space Guy is on posting ban because he's saying what needs to be said and he's saying it from a position of expertise. But since it isn't what people want to hear (affirmation of their ridiculous theories) he gets shut down.

Way to go ATS moderation team. "Deny ignorance" my arse.

Thank you moderator team. I don't understand why we can't post here without all this negativity.

If the one on top is Aristarchus, as I think it is, then the darker one below is Herodotus.

thanks, matyas. i like the little confidence level thing.