John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon, the light magnitute of 7 indicates to me good old oxygen in the atmosphere and the jury is still out if in fact it was a meteor that hit the Moon. I have looked at the target zero impact area over and over that soloist was kind enough to direct us to see. After the initial magnitude 7 explosion of impact the light exspands and contracts to darkness, but I detect a slight dark bump or bulge in the area above the impact area once the light disapates Could this be debri or a mushroom cloud or both? Rik Riley

Originally posted by FreeThinkerIdealist

I think you have a word wrong in there ...
To accept all explosions as impacts from meteors most certainly would be the downfall of science and astronomy.

Actually I don't believe I do have a word wrong there. If you read again what I said, I did not say *all* explosions are meteors. I said it is a fact that meteors hit the surface of the moon and explode as as example of the moon not having a protective atmosphere, and not just the large ones, the small meteoroid impact craters in the moon rocks prove this.

A clear open mind, willing to believe anything is possible, no matter how impropbable, is what is needed to be able to give science the ability to grow and expand into new realms of understanding.
Believing everything we have proved is all there is to know would be detrimental to future science and hold us back mentally from understanding further scientific discoveries in many fields.

I agree that an open mind is essential, heck without it we would have never had Einstein. But believing that *anything* is possible is too big of a stretch, without constants in the universe it would be utter chaos, without certain laws to follow and adhere to it would be very hard to really understand what's going on around us.

You also must place the same burden of proof upon yourself as you place upon things you are skeptical of. If you do not see what impacted, you cannot take a leap of faith to what is logical, for logic deals only with what you have known and proven, not all that is out there.

Is that so? Well then I guess we shouldn't tell that to John Couch Adams or Urbain Le Verrier, who both correctly calculated where another planet, -Neptune- in our solar system would be, unobserved, fueled only by the logic that Uranus' path around the sun cannot be correct and that only another planets gravity could be pulling it off course.

What about black holes? We cannot see them, but we see the evidence all around that they exist, should we discount that logic as well?

How about a more earthly hypothetical?

Let's say I'm outside at my grandma's house, because I love my grandma, and she needs company from time to time. And there is a thunderstorm approaching, so I decide it's in my best interest to get out from under her apple tree for fear of being struck by lightning, and go inside to check on grandma. Then *BOOM* a giant clap of thunder and a brilliant flash ,I turn around to see my grandma's apple tree split in half! Now you're saying it's wrong for me to make a "leap of faith" in logic to realize that lightning is what struck the tree?? I didn't actually see it, and I'm basing that off of proven known science for sure. But all the evidence is there, and there are neat things to study, like what it did to the tree, what about the soil, mmm ... are those apples carmelized, I think I would like one, is there sand close by that has turned to glass? And how does that happen?

Or do I stand around thinking what else it could have been that struck the tree? I think you see the answer there.

Sorry for lack of updates here... but I have been busy in the Space Shuttle thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Have a little something to share...

Our Moon Anomaly hunt now has some more support...

"There are times when a scientist must not be afraid to make a fool of himself" - Arthur C. Clarke


Towards Lunar Archaeology
Dr. Alexey V. Arkhipov
Institute of Radio Astronomy, Nat. Acad. Sci. of Ukraine

Our Moon is a potential indicator of a possible alien presence near the Earth at some time during the past 4 billion years. To ascertain the presence of alien artifacts, a survey for ruinlike formations on the Moon has been carried out as a precursor to lunar archaeology.

Computer algorithms for semi-automatic, archaeological photo-reconnaissance are discussed. About 80,000 Clementine lunar orbital images have been processed, and a number of quasirectangular patterns found. Morphological analysis of these patterns leads to possible reconstructions of their evolution in terms of erosion. Two scenarios are considered: 1) the collapse of subsurface quasi-rectangular systems of caverns, and 2) the erosion of hills with quasi-rectangular lattices of lineaments. We also note the presence of embankment-like,
quadrangular, hollow hills with rectangular depressions nearby.. Tectonic (geologic) interpretations of these features are considered. The similarity of these patterns to terrestrial archaeological sites and proposed lunar base concepts suggest the need for further study and future in situ exploration.

Today, the idea of exploring the Moon for non-human artifacts is not a popular one among selenologists. Unfortunately, the detection of ET artifacts on the Moon is outside the interest of most selenologists due to their orientation towards natural formations and processes. It is also not of interest to mainstream archaeologists, as archaeology tends to adhere to a pre-Copernican geocentric point-of-view.

SOURCE: The Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR)


SETI
On Lunar Archeology

In 1992, the Search for Alien Artifacts on the Moon (SAAM) — the first privately-organized archaeological reconnaissance of the Moon — was initiated. The justifications of lunar SETI, the wording of specific principles of lunar archaeology, and the search for promising areas on the Moon were the first stage of the project (1992-95). Preliminary results of lunar exploration6 show that the search for alien artifacts on the Moon is a promising SETI strategy, especially in the context of lunar colonization plans.

Additional reading:

Arkhipov, A.V. “Earth-Moon System as a Collector of Alien Artefacts”, J. Brit. Interplanet. Soc., 1998, 51,
181-184.
Arkhipov, A.V., and Graham, F.G. “Lunar SETI: A Justification”, in The Search for Extraterrestrial
Intelligence (SETI) in the Optical Spectrum II, ed. S.A. Kingsley & G.A. Lemarchand, SPIE Proceedings, Vol.
2704, SPIE, Washington, 150-154, 1996.


And what do they have to show us?

Khorezmian Fortress Koy-Krylgan-Kala




Fig. 1 The ancient Khorezmian fortress Koy-Krylgan-kala appeared as an impact crater on the air photo (left); its artificiality is obvious after the excavations in 1956 (right)


The air view of the Ancient Assyrian ruins of Assur resemble the lunar lattice in Fig. 6.


Fig. 5 The example of a wafer find (image LHD5472Q.287)


Fig. 6 Simulation of probable HIRES view of ancient settlement on the Moon (left). The erosion wipes off the surface tracks of construction (center), but the SAAM processing could reveal the rectangular anomaly (right).

Alexey V. Arkhipov is a researcher at the Institute of Radio Astronomy, National Academy of Sciences of the Ukraine, and an Assistant professor at National Kharkov University. He has a Ph.D. in astrophysics and radio astronomy (Main Astronomical Observatory at the National Academy of Sciences of the Ukraine, Kyiv, 1998). The title of his dissertation was "New approaches to the problem of search for extra-terrestrial intelligence." Dr. Arkhipov's research involves the study of decametric radio emissions of Jupiter and non-classical approaches to SETI (e.g. archaeological reconnaissance of the Moon). He is the author of Selenites (www.setileague.org...) and more than 100 technical and scientific articles. Dr. Arkhipov is the SETI League's Volunteer Coordinator for the Ukraine. He is a member of the SETI Center (Moscow), the Society for Planetary SETI Research (SPSR), and the SETI section of the Council on Astronomy of the Russian Academy of
Sciences. His curriculum vitae can be found at www.setileague.org...

So SETI and main stream acadamia is coming on line with our views, at least to the point of ancient civilizations on the Lunar surface. Seems they to can see things 'in fuzzy pictures'

There is a large list of coordinates at the SETI site for Lunar images that I have not tracked down yet but...

Continued...

But in the meantime while I 'dig up' the lunar ones, we need to take a little trip to Mars... as these images are very relevant to the previous post...

NASA has labeled this "Inca City"

Mars Global Surveyor
"INCA CITY"
MOC wide-angle image E09-00186



Here is the same shot 'annotated' by Malin Space Systems, who describe this area as an 'unexplained mystery'

"Inca City" is Part of a Circular Feature
MGS MOC Release No. MOC2-319, 8 August 2002

"Inca City" is the informal name given by Mariner 9 scientists in 1972 to a set of intersecting, rectilinear ridges that are located among the layered materials of the south polar region of Mars. Their origin has never been understood; most investigators thought they might be sand dunes, either modern dunes or, more likely, dunes that were buried, hardened, then exhumed. Others considered them to be dikes formed by injection of molten rock (magma) or soft sediment into subsurface cracks that subsequently hardened and then were exposed at the surface by wind erosion.

The Mars Global Surveyor (MGS) Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) has provided new information about the "Inca City" ridges, though the camera's images still do not solve the mystery. The new information comes in the form of a MOC red wide angle context frame taken in mid-southern spring, shown above left and above right. The original Mariner 9 view of the ridges is seen at the center. The MOC image shows that the "Inca City" ridges, located at 82°S, 67°W, are part of a larger circular structure that is about 86 km (53 mi) across. It is possible that this pattern reflects an origin related to an ancient, eroded meteor impact crater that was filled-in, buried, then partially exhumed. In this case, the ridges might be the remains of filled-in fractures in the bedrock into which the crater formed, or filled-in cracks within the material that filled the crater. Or both explanations could be wrong. While the new MOC image shows that "Inca City" has a larger context as part of a circular form, it does not reveal the exact origin of these striking and unusual martian landforms.
Source


Mariner 9
"INCA CITY"

Mariner 9 took the first image of this 'buried city'

Mariner 9 image of the "Inca City". During the Mariner 9 mission, scientists found an unusual rectilinear structure associated with the south polar pitted terrain which they dubbed the "Inca City". Located near -80 degrees latitude and 64 degrees longitude, it is likely the result of wind deflation of deposits from underlying rough terrain. The "cells" in the image are about 4-5 kilometers in width.

Viking 2
"INCA CITY"

NASA Frame number F421B64

Viking 2 image of the region around the "Inca City". On a later orbit (421), Viking 2 again imaged the region. This time, the Inca City is clearly visible. This image was taken through the red filter. It has been enhanced to bring out the details (noise reduced and contrast enhanced). The resolution of this image is 0.146 km/pixel and is centered at -81.82 degrees latitude and 59.59 degrees longitude. Reproduced from volume 59 of the Mission to Mars: Viking Orbiter Images of Mars CD-ROM set.

Mars Orbiter Camera (MOC) High Resolution Images:
Rectilinear Ridges In South Polar Layered Terrain ("Inca City")








Seems NASA has a lot of interest in this region... I wonder why?

Well considering the SETI work... I can sure guess...






[edit on 1-10-2007 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
Seems NASA has a lot of interest in this region... I wonder why?

One of the reasons may the fact that this area is one of those affected by the seasonal appearance of dark spots, but they sure are interested.

That is why a search for "Inca" on the HiRISE site shows, at the moment, 12 results.

The first picture from Kaguya today so the systems seem to be working.

JAXA and NHK (Japan Broadcasting Corporation) have successfully taken high definition moving images through the KAGUYA (SELENE) for the first time.

www.jaxa.jp...

I hope the images are going to be bigger than this though and will we see live Moon TV ?

reply to post by sherpa


The images are bigger than that 180x135 thumbnail that ilustrates the article.

Being HDTV, the images are 1.920x1.080, as seen here. And they are video images, not just photos.

reply to post by ArMaP



Thanks ArMap I knew it would be HDTV hence the Moon TV comment.

I gotta admit I didn't look hard enough for a better image well done.

Could you tell me what you think this is on the horizon.

www.lpi.usra.edu...





[edit on 1-10-2007 by sherpa]

Wow... that is weird Sherpa. I really don't think it can be attributed as some sort of fault in the actual picture -- whatever it is, it looks to be real. Amazing find -- could you please link to the source?

Cheers,

navieko

Originally posted by sherpa

Thanks ArMap I knew it would be HDTV hence the Moon TV comment.

I gotta admit I didn't look hard enough for a better image well done.

Could you tell me what you think this is on the horizon.

www.lpi.usra.edu...



[edit on 1-10-2007 by sherpa]

Plasma emission? It looks like someone flying a kite in zero g, kind of....but plasma is very abundant and an outward emission seems possible.

Originally posted by sherpa
Could you tell me what you think this is on the horizon.

LOL that's easy... that's where the Pegasus crew had their cookout...

Nice smoke plume Sherpa

Originally posted by Navieko
Wow... that is weird Sherpa. I really don't think it can be attributed as some sort of fault in the actual picture -- whatever it is, it looks to be real. Amazing find -- could you please link to the source?

He did... its below the picture

That is amazing Sherpa it even shows the haze of the atmosphere. And right below the mountain if you zoom out to see the whole thing it has the impression of a large city... the whole terrain is laid out in a grid...










[edit on 2-10-2007 by zorgon]

[edit on 2-10-2007 by zorgon]

reply to post by sherpa


Wow, nice find. Hard to know, but if you look a Zorgon's zoomed up picture, the motion of the "flume" seems helicoidal. And looking closer at the end of it, looks like an orb/cone shaped object. Could it be a shot of a fast moving orb coming from over the horizon at high speed in a helix type of motion with a long exposure time? Would help if we knew the exposure time and the picture was in color.

I don't know if these pics have already been posted here:



Source:
www.msss.com...
www.msss.com...
www.msss.com...

Originally posted by internos
I don't know if these pics have already been posted here:

Source:
www.msss.com...
www.msss.com...
www.msss.com...

Internos, that is possibly one of the finest anomoly pictures I have seen in a LOOOOONG time. Excellent find!!!

What would you think it is?

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


Internos, that is possibly one of the finest anomoly pictures I have seen in a LOOOOONG time. Excellent find!!!

What would you think it is?

Thank you!
Honestly, i have no idea. I can state that my first impression suggested me an "artifact": but of course it's just an impression: i still haven't found something similar with which to compare .


[edit on 2/10/2007 by internos]

Originally posted by internos

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan


Internos, that is possibly one of the finest anomoly pictures I have seen in a LOOOOONG time. Excellent find!!!

What would you think it is?

Thank you!

Honestly, i have no idea. I can state that my first impression suggested me an "artifact": but of course it's just an impression: i still haven't found something similar with which to compare .

[edit on 2/10/2007 by internos]

How do you find this stuff? Are you looking yourself at al photo;s? Or do you have a ..euhr.. source for it?

Originally posted by sherpa
www.lpi.usra.edu...





Sherpa, this is the find of the century. This photo and all the data are in both "The Moon as Viewed by Lunar Orbiter" NASA SP-200 and "Guide to Lunar Orbiter Photographs" NASA SP-242, both NASA publications. The picture they have is heavly, heavily airbrushed and I will post it later.

Thanks Sherpa, this is one terrific find.

Originally posted by Lunica

How do you find this stuff? Are you looking yourself at al photo;s? Or do you have a ..euhr.. source for it?

These ones from Mars have been posted somewhere, but i don't remember where, that's the reason i wrote "I don't know if these pics have already been posted here:". Maybe it was a brazilian or portuguese website or forum, but i'm not sure. Maybe ArMaP knows it. I remember that they used some kind of colour filter, and their enhancementes were interesting, (better than mines, of course). The website was mentioned on a italian website: if i'll find the link, i'll post it. Usually, When i find the source of a interesting pic, i save it in a database, and sometimes i post the pics weeks after saving the link.
I've found the ones from the moon and from saturn that you've seen on other threads directly surfing on NASA websites.

Edit to add: i think i've found the website: it's a portuguese one:
anomaliasemmarte.no.sapo.pt...
The enhancements looks the same



[edit on 2/10/2007 by internos]

reply to post by internos


My first thought (bottom pic) it almost looks like the shuttle just landed right on the surface. Then after staring at it a little bit longer, it almost looks like a door cut into a rock. Much like our underground installations here (ie Norad). I'm probably way off on both, regardless, these are excellent pics. Thank you for posting them. Any idea of what the "streaks" are closer to the bottom? Are those shadows from something standing? Again, thank you for feeding my new obsession.

spike