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John Lear's Moon Pictures on ATS

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posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
That is jack Arneson's page, and is also at The Living Moon... we have been holding off trying to get the videos to play in all Windows versions... seems Vista is a pain in the b....
I have Windows Vista and I do not have any problems to see the video, the problem I had was the waiting time, more than 45 minutes, to download it. I had to save the video and play it directly from my computer.

A streaming format would be better.




posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by TheBorg...Check this out. I hope it's something worthy of your attention.


Well, maybe not his but for now mine. I checked it out, and some of these folks come across as naive, not even the level of mistrust associated with the European culture at minimum.

You can bet your last dollar what everyone knows as true is about to change. I also have a shiny penny that they criticized the late Prof. Gerard K. O'Neill just as much before the mainstream accepted his ideas, unfortunately his work became a passing fad, and we have come full circle whining about overpopulation, energy and mineral resource shortages, global warming, pollution, and all the associated problems that arise from short term thinking.

If these folks have a problem wrapping their heads around a hole in the ground, then they will have a very difficult road ahead to consider even more far out phenomena. Even here on Earth there are anomalies that completely escape my conception, and I consider myself fairly open minded. "Humble" indeed, to whom or what, the status quo of orthodox thinking?



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 08:17 PM
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I think it is a simple case of people who are trying to make their name by denigrating others, rather than finding some truly inspired gem on their own.

You can be a piece of the puzzle, or you can be a carp. Or a crow. Take your pick.

Point is, i would not expect those so firmly entrenched in their flock to see much further than the south end of their nearest counterparts. Unfortunately for them, due to this narrow experience, the only thing they seem capable of describing is the contents of said south end.

I guess it is nice to see the denizens of Space.com so harshly critique Zorgon and Pegasus' work....must mean he is on to something.



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by sherpa
I am assuming they were at the Bay Area Expo is this where physicists get all their new ideas ?


Maybe... but the MIT physicist is one of the organizers
and he just wtote me wanting to open a dialog..



Now I am not sure if going around perking people with a "Levitated Dipole Fusion Reactor" is a very nice thing to do, is it even legal ?


Legal? Don't know... they aren't supposed to exist



posted on Sep, 1 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by TheBorg Still a pretty big name to have your name on, aside from ATS man. Gotta love it.


Mars Anomaly is good... Pegasus is bad... Hmmmm


Funny the page Lost Shaman linked to has nothing on it but a NASA record of crashed ships... not one anomaly and not one thing that is not from an official source... I admit I am puzzled...

Also linked to the Pegasus main page which is actually only for documents on non moon or Mars topics, not the living moon... very interesting tactics indeed...

I guess my mail box will be full again


[edit on 1-9-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 12:07 AM
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Originally posted by Matyas

Total Lunar eclipse tonight at 2:51 AM PST!!!



Ah yes it was beautiful indeed A clear night over San Jose where this image was taken


But my daughter and I watched it over the ocean... it was her first Lunar Eclipse... Nice way to round out the trip


Now what kind of a Moon thread would this be if we didn't cover the eclipse...




Full size is here...



MORE HERE


[edit on 2-9-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by Matyas
Aristarchus is a plasma volcano...nah, jus' too weird


Your right that would not work...

Besides the Plasma Volcanoes are on the other moon... IO








MORE ON IO HERE

Tee Hee



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
I have Windows Vista and I do not have any problems to see the video, the problem I had was the waiting time, more than 45 minutes, to download it. I had to save the video and play it directly from my computer.

A streaming format would be better.


Well as far as Vista is concerned I am about ready to drop it in one of those holes we found on Mars


But precisely about the streaming video... especially for those on dial up

The biggest problem we have is trying to show stuff in high res but only a small percentage of viewer can handle that... I had to turn off undo features in paintshop to handle those 200 meg images


I think part of the problem that people only see fuzzy blobs is directly related to what they are viewing with. I had two people at the Expo say they had trouble seeing what we do, but saw it clearly on our lap top...

So its time to put this on CD's I think Paintshop 5 is now freely available as its so old I will check on that but 5 is still good enough to view these images.



posted on Sep, 2 2007 @ 11:35 PM
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[quote0So its time to put this on CD's I think Paintshop 5 is now freely available as its so old I will check on that but 5 is still good enough to view these images.

well...i think you are right about image size. Only in the last couple of years has it been common to have more than 128 meg of RAM. The technology is advancing so quickly that what the people on the "high end" (2k and above) are using is so far advanced from what most of the people afford (or spend) on an $800 dollar Dell.

Getting the software is not that hard if you just ask around. You can get Paintshop 5 if you Google it, i think. And GIMP is free for sure (although awkward to use).

Some people don't understand this, and use MSPaint or some other internal Microsoft application.

Just don't get too advanced. Photoshop CS3 is too much, and I can't use it.

[edit on 2-9-2007 by bigfatfurrytexan]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 12:48 AM
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A Little Detour Here... to bring us back to what's going on on the Moon and in Orbit... I have always said "Follow the Kitchen" if you are looking for secret missions and bases...

Well seems the Russians are the caterers


THE ISS

Presented for Jack Arneson
Member of Pegasus

Jack and I have been very busy digging through documents and following trails. This will be a continuing project as new stuff comes out of the closet





Yes, it's very pretty. But pretty much useless as well and obsolete, like the Shuttle. Investigations on cosmic radiation and other space physics can be accomplished on unmanned satellites. Onboard systems are failing and can't be upgraded to new technology as it's design prevents easy retrofitting. Electrical as well as other systems hardware would need to be completely replaced throughout the station.

What I believe it's main mission is today is a pick-up point for other missions kept under wraps.

A Home Depot in space....

...supplying food, fuel and other equipment to space stations and craft on secret missions. Of course I can't prove this but
what else is all the stuff going up there for? Yes, some of the equipment is for the station to maintain it's integrity. It needs to stay operational until another system goes online. I'm still gathering information so more follow-ups will follow.

But look at what The NASA channel is showing about it's mission. All you ever see is short, selected video of the station orbiting the Earth in one minute segments. And internal video of personnel banging away on computers or eating Jell-O in zero gravity. NASA has been spouting about the new High Definition Television cameras all over the station, pointing to different areas and Earth.

Well, why don't they have a Hi-Def channel for us to see this amazing footage? Or even broadcast any footage?

NASA does broadcast the Shuttle launches in HD but...we never get to see any Shuttle footage when it reaches orbit insertion, on it's way to the station or on it's way back. Why?.. Because they're seeing things and doing things they don't want us to see. Whether it be UFO's, other space craft rendezvous, docking at secret space stations, etc.I need to investigate this much more so just chew on that for a while.



Russian Launches to the ISS in January, May & August 2007:



Now it seems to me, this is an extraordinarily large amount of food and water for three people. How would they keep fruit and vegetables from spoiling? You can't freeze fresh fruit and vegetables... Well, you can but freezing would ruin them. And it was fresh, not dehydrated, cooked or freeze dried.

Google this and you can find many references to the fresh fruit.

Progress-M 59...

...is a Russian automatic cargo carrier that was launched by a Soyuz rocket from Baikonur at 02:12 UT on 18 January 2007, toward the International Space Station.

It carried 2.5 tons of food, fuel, water and equipment and docked with the PIRS module of the ISS at 03:03 UT on 20 January.

Notice the January flight doesn't break-down the individual weights.How much of that was food and water? And it doesn't take three days to reach the station! All launches are supposed to be timed to make an orbit (a couple of hours at most) and then dock.

What was going on in those three days?

Progress-M 60...

...is a Russian automatic cargo carrier that was launched by a Soyuz-U rocket from Baikonur at 03:25 UT on 12 May 2007.

It carried 45 kg of air, 419 kg of water, and 1.4 tons of dry cargo, 241 kg of fresh fruits and vegetables, 136 kg of medical equipment.

It docked automatically with the Zvezda module of the ISS at 05:10 UT on 15 May 2007.(docked on the fourth day) Four days to reach the ISS? There is no explanation for this behavior.


Documentation...

La Progress M-60 en órbita (Brazilian)
...de ellos 212 kilos de legumbres y frutas frescas

Progress M-60 Docked with ISS (Russian)
Progress M-60 has delivered to astronaut’s water, fuel, new research equipment, food, fresh fruit and vegetables

Progress 60 PDF
Progress is carrying 241 kilos of food, including fresh fruit and vegetables, 136 kilos of medical equipment, medicines and personal items - which includes parcels from the families of crewmembers. Specific to the US side of the ISS, Progress is carrying 377 kilos of food, equipment and clothing.



This article also shows the timeline. The last three paragraphs show the M-60 was not on an ISS course. There were nine separate major thruster-burns in the three days before docking. Do you see how one can find discrepancies with innocent comments?

We are finding alot of information this way. You'll never find anything asking direct questions about a direct subject. One needs to look at the overall picture of any subject and break-down the subtleties and you'll find them.


Update



I watched the Hi-Def 30 minute broadcast of an "interview" with one of the crew members of the ISS on Discovery HD channel on 08/15/07. (on all this week at different times) Ten minutes of it was on what they eat. No mention of fresh fruit or vegetables. The Commander showed dehydrated food packets, fruit juice packets and everything was in packets. Not a banana, apple or veggie in sight or even mentioned.

Now that is intriguing.

I also watched the broadcast of STS 118 crew member Barbara Morgan on 08/16/07, talking to Idaho students via HAM radio. One student asked about her favorite food she eats on the station. M&M's was her choice and she explained that all their food was in packets and vacuum sealed. Some was dehydrated and some in cooked form which they could heat-up for meals. Again...no mention of fresh fruit and veggies. So I ask you again...

...where is the fruit and veggies going? And there's alot of it.

Jack Arneson....



Good question Jack, that is an awful lot of fruit and veggies

241 kilograms is 531.3086 pounds... that is over a quarter of a TON of fruit and veggies

Just how much do those three guys on the ISS eat anyway? And these runs are every few months...

MORE ON THIS VISIT THIS THREAD

www.abovetopsecret.com...

BTW Beth... More automated spacecraft



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 12:54 AM
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There is a lot more information that Jack has gathered and we will present it over the next few days...

The Progress and ISS material can be viewed here..

PROGRESS M REPORT

Here is another important point from Jack...



Do you know how long it takes a manned mission to reach the Moon?

19 minutes to reach outer Earth orbit insertion after lift-off.
90 minutes to reach low Earth orbit after lift off.

Two days to reach the Moon after they leave low Earth orbit. And this was Apollo 17, 35 years ago. So why does it take 4 days to reach the ISS?

Progress M class Automatic Cargo Carrier Is An Unmanned Craft. What is the 1.4 tons of "dry cargo" in the May flight? I haven't been able to find any reference to it except that. And 100lbs of air? The station makes it's own air that's part of the life support system.

Although the Russian built oxygen generator Elektron failed in Jan.'07, it's was repairable after extensive diagnosis and spare parts were employed. A hundred pounds would keep you alive for about 5 minutes. Uncompressed, a cubic yard of air weighs about 2.5 lbs

Didn't know that did you?

A typical divers air tank can hold between 1700 and 2400 lbs of compressed air. At a depth of 33 feet, a diver consumes 50 lbs per minute. So what is 100 lbs being used for? The fuel system? I doubt that very much. The station only has attitude thrusters for orientation. The station is dependent on visiting vehicles to adjust it's altitude when needed.

The station already has back-up air supplies on hand and enough for several months. Although some air is lost every time air-locks are opened to do an EVA. And I saw a reference to that somewhere but 100 lbs wouldn't even make a dent in air lock loss.



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon
La Progress M-60 en órbita (Brazilian)
...de ellos 212 kilos de legumbres y frutas frescas
Just two off-topic, but related to the previous quote, rants.

That PDF may have come from a Brazilian source, but is in Spanish (or, more correctly, Castilian), so I doubt it.

Also, none of the PDFs is in Russian, can we have the original text to dismiss the possibility of a bad translation?



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
Also, none of the PDFs is in Russian, can we have the original text to dismiss the possibility of a bad translation?


Most of the Russian sites use English these days but knock yourself out...

www.energia.ru...



But ArMap... seriously must you always doubt everything? Is it too much to ask you take a little on faith that we did our homework? I mean we wouldn't tell you about fruits and vegetables if we didn't KNOW, now would we?

I mean what do you expect... an admission from NASA?


[edit on 3-9-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 3 2007 @ 08:18 PM
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Fresh Fruits and Vegetables in Space

05.13.04

Fresh fruits and vegetables have been in demand with astronauts since the early Shuttle days. Fresh fruits and vegetables (apples, bananas and carrot and celery sticks) were first flown on STS-6 in April 1983. Oranges, pears, nectarines, grapefruit and jalapeno peppers have also flown occasionally.

Bananas and oranges became less popular over time because of the odor they produce. The fresh fruits and vegetables are loaded on the spacecraft 16 to 24 hours before launch. The odor permeates the spacecraft. Upon arrival in microgravity, some crew members may become nauseated and then associate the odor of the fruits and vegetables with the nausea.



The Russians send onions, garlic and tomatoes with each Progress shipment to the International Space Station (ISS). ISS crew members report that the fresh fruits and vegetables from Shuttle and Progress add variety to their diet and increase crew morale.



Cultural differences between the two food systems include the lack of any typical American breakfast foods. There is also more fish on the Russian menu. Some of their breakfast items include perch, both pickled and spiced, and foxberry juice, a mixture of wild cranberry and buckwheat gruel. Several thermostabilized and dehydrated cottage cheese items appear in the menu, mostly with fruit. And, of course, we cannot have Russian food without borsch, a soup made of beets.



So you still doubt?
I knew if we looked hard enough we would find the itemized list


Currently, the Russian Space Agency provides half of the food consumed on the ISS, with NASA supplying the other half.


And there you have it the Russian Caterers...

Now explain to me if the Progress brought 2.5 tons of food to the ISS and 241 kilograms of that was fresh produce... and that is only HALF of the food brought up there...

Just HOW MUCH CAN THREE PEOPLE EAT???

Oh almost forgot how silly of me... you want the source of this data...

NASA Home > For Students > 9-12 Students


So YOU doubt the fruits and veggies..

but school kids 9-12 know it for a fact...




posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
But ArMap... seriously must you always doubt everything?
Yes, I doubt everything, including (and especially) myself, I am sceptic of almost everything.



Is it too much to ask you take a little on faith that we did our homework?
Faith is not my strongest point, I think I don't have faith in anything...


I mean we wouldn't tell you about fruits and vegetables if we didn't KNOW, now would we?
I don't know, I don't know, you could be making one of those "tests" to see if you are paying attention.



I mean what do you expect... an admission from NASA?
You have to agree that that would be newsworthy, but I am not that naive...



posted on Sep, 4 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Oh almost forgot how silly of me... you want the source of this data...

NASA Home > For Students > 9-12 Students

So YOU doubt the fruits and veggies..

but school kids 9-12 know it for a fact...
OK, now you consider what NASA says a fact, but you don't believe it when it doesn't agree with your opinion?


I know that the way I post it, it may have looked like I did not trust your work. I trust it, but not enough to consider as a fact anything you say, in the same way I do not trust what anybody else says, unless I know really well that person, but that means only three or four people, at most.
 

If you had posted the links to the real site from where you got the information instead of pointing to PDFs on the thelivingmoon site, it would have looked more authentic and I wouldn't (probably) said nothing about it.


PS: have you noticed that if you make the sum of all the published cargo and compare it to the total there is around 1000kg missing? Or is it the way I am reading it, and from those missing kg we must subtract the US part?



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 01:16 AM
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Good work, Zorgon. This is interesting, indeed.

What i want to know is why they ship it "up there"? As you point out, how much food do those scrawny astronauts eat? Are they having a sleepover with a college football team???

So, where does it go? As jack pointed out with the air, there isn't enough of any of it to account for much. Unless only a few people needed it. Fresh fruits and veggies won't last so long, anyway, and i would likely rather have frozen veggies (but not so much frozen fruit).

One would assume that if we were stocking up an outpost, that they could grow their own fresh foods hydroponically. One would also assume that fresh meats would also be a desire of these people. I, for one, would KILL for bacon if i didn't have it for a couple of weeks. Bacon is so delicious, even pigs want to eat it.

The publicized cargo, along with the description Jack provides of the astronauts personal accounts of their diets (i have seen these video's before, and know what he is talking about), makes this story very, very weird. Whatever is going on, i bet none of us have considered it as a possibility...unless you are craftier than i thought, Zorgon.



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 01:34 AM
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Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan




The publicized cargo, along with the description Jack provides of the astronauts personal accounts of their diets (i have seen these video's before, and know what he is talking about), makes this story very, very weird. Whatever is going on, i bet none of us have considered it as a possibility...unless you are craftier than i thought, Zorgon.



There is more than one space station. Get it?



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 04:38 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
If you had posted the links to the real site from where you got the information instead of pointing to PDFs on the thelivingmoon site, it would have looked more authentic and I wouldn't (probably) said nothing about it.


Well the problem is that not all the documents we find are available on the web... much of what we find comes from ordering documents from NASA and other sources... like the space station contractors PDF... These do however have all the NASA (or other agency) documentation included.

Some documents are from places like AAIA or JStor and you get a free abstract and have to PAY for the full document, just like you would pay for a book... We just recently spent 30.00 on a 1886 paper from Hansen...

So does this make them any less valid as a source? Book authors cite sources with a mere footnote and that is the norm and accepted...

We provide you with all the necessary info to get a copy yourself and in many cases when its not in violation of copyright, I post these that we have paid for for free on the livingmoon for others to study

Hope that helps you a little...


As to NASA I have NEVER said that I don't trust NASA documents... I simply maintain that there are two side to NASA (most likely three actually)

On the one hand there is the public stuff that says one thing... and then if you dig and be persistant with your questions, you will get the other side in grat detail...

Like the fruit... Discovery and History show only foil pouches as food, yet you saw the school site that says fresh produce

Like the Tether incident that says it was a success despite losing a 100 million satelllite after a few minutes of deployment, but the 350 page report tells a different story (This will be on the website soon in the Electric Universe section)

Like the images they have been showing with a black and white moon and a bright blue Earth, yet the Galileo images show the same living color that Mikes image has even though Mikes is 10 times better resolution than the best Galileo image available online

NASA even has a document on the Lunar atmosphere

So why the duality? I have no idea... but I find the "hidden in plain site" data a lot more interesting than the public released stuff

[edit on 5-9-2007 by zorgon]



posted on Sep, 5 2007 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by johnlear


There is more than one space station. Get it?


Unfortunately John, No there isnt. Get it?



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