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Air Force chief: Test weapons on testy U.S. mobs

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posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 03:30 AM
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Nonlethal weapons such as high-power microwave devices should be used on American citizens in crowd-control situations before being used on the battlefield, the Air Force secretary said Tuesday. The object is basically public relations. Domestic use would make it easier to avoid questions from others about possible safety considerations, said Secretary Michael Wynne.


source



How can a "high-power microwave device" be non lethal wouldn't it effectively cook your internal organs? even more worrying in the fact that they are advocating using civilians as guinea pigs when using this equipment




posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 05:37 AM
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As if ruber bullets weren't enough, now these prototypes will be used on civilians?



Nonlethal weapons generally can weaken people if they are hit with the beam. Some of the weapons can emit short, intense energy pulses that also can be effective in disabling some electronic devices.

Well, at least if it is used against you, it won't be obvious, won't it?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 05:44 AM
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lol,
every body reads the bit about the weapons, and yet cannot see the 40,000 USAF jobs cuts because their so annoyed about the 'non lethal' weapons subject.

Mass redundancies ARE a non-lethal weapon. They don't kill, but they sure do cripple those getting cut.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by Carubane
As if ruber bullets weren't enough, now these prototypes will be used on civilians?


makes you wonder whats next though, testing air fuel bombs in downtown harlem in case they get sued by an enemy?

[edit on 13-9-2006 by solidshot]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:11 AM
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As I've said in the ATSNN thread... This guy is an idiot!




"If we're not willing to use it here against our fellow citizens, then we should not be willing to use it in a wartime situation," said Wynne. "(Because) if I hit somebody with a nonlethal weapon and they claim that it injured them in a way that was not intended, I think that I would be vilified in the world press."


In other words, the health of Americans means less to him than that of the enemy or of world opinion about the USAF!


What a freakin' zoo!





[edit on 13-9-2006 by loam]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:19 AM
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I got a better idea. Why dont they test these weapons on all the Military Brass who are so eager to test them on others first? That way, if the Brass are willing to subject themselves to the same weapon they are so quick to use on others, then I will take that as a bona fide that the weapon is indeed safe and non lethal.

Oh yeah, and put in the test group the scientists who developed it, and the politicans who would approve its use.




posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 09:39 AM
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I find it hilarious that so many people are so willing to jump off a cliff and make all sorts of assumptions......without actually knowing anything about these devices and what they actually do.

Faced with the choice of rubber bullets, tear gas, or HPMW devices....I'll take the HPMW any day. (You see, rubber bullets leave deep bruises that can last for weeks, and tear gas is just plain terrible - I know, I've experienced both).

HPMW tranmitters, depending on the output power and frequency, cause discomfort and pain while the target is exposed to the waves. Step out of the waves, pain goes away. No lasting side effects, no permanent damage.

These devices are not prototypes that need civilian guinea pigs for testing. They are finished products that have already been extensively tested in the lab and by the military. They are non-lethal and highly effective at crowd dispersal.

The point the general was trying to make was that these devices are not dangerous, are not lethal, and are generally very humane - and to prove it we will use them on our own people (so the rest of the world can't later claim we are "cooking" our enemies with microwaves).

These comments remind me of the propaganda that existed 100 years ago when AC electricity was being proposed - and the detractors tried to claim it was too dangerous, and to prove it the started executing people in the "electric chair".

Far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't even be wasting money on this stuff. One solid maple tree will provide hundreds of billy clubs to crack heads when necessary.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Pyros


Far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't even be wasting money on this stuff. One solid maple tree will provide hundreds of billy clubs to crack heads when necessary.


AMEN!

of course, I always somehow forget that ATS is a conspiracy website, aimed to create some kind of BS story out of any news that comes out.

Off topic: Alot of people forget that the roads they drive on, the railroads they ride on, the airports they use for transportation, the buildings the go to work in, much of all that was the result of government funding. but hey, they are corrupt and evil, right?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:06 AM
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Originally posted by Mouth
Alot of people forget that the roads they drive on, the railroads they ride on, the airports they use for transportation, the buildings the go to work in, much of all that was the result of government funding. but hey, they are corrupt and evil, right?


But where does this funding come from? the tax payer of course, but instead of looking after the taxpayer the only people the polititions ever look after is themselves and their own interests



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:12 AM
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Perhaps I don't understand microwave weapons totally, but I do have a question which comes to mind...

What happens to those people who have medical metal implants (like I do) or even metal fillings in their teeth. Do these microwave weapons have the same effect as putting metal in a microwave oven?

If t means I'm going to start 'sparking and arcing' then I'm totally against testing these things on civilian populations.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:13 AM
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Two months ago I watched documentary film on this subject, it's been produced by an Italian broadcast company.

Apparently, those weapons have been used in Iraq already.

You can watch the documentary and all you know want to know here:
video.google.com...

Laser weapons + Concentration camps = Economic collapse

With other words, it seems that the US government is preparing for what is going to happen.

This is the weapon: the Active Denial System





The ADS works by directing electromagnetic radiation at a frequency of 95 GHz toward the subjects. This frequency means the radiation is in the millimeter region of the electromagnetic spectrum. In comparison, a standard microwave oven cooks food with about 2.4 GHz waves, so the ADS's radiation is more energetic, but much less prone to penetrate skin — the military says the effect "penetrates the skin to a depth of less than 1/64 of an inch." The focused beam can be directed at targets at a range of one kilometer.

The energy in the waves turns to heat upon skin contact and immediately heats water molecules in the skin to around 55 C (130 degrees Fahrenheit), causing an intensely painful burning sensation. A spokesman for the Air Force Research Laboratory described his experience as a test subject for the system: "For the first millisecond, it just felt like the skin was warming up. Then it got warmer and warmer and you felt like it was on fire.... As soon as you're away from that beam your skin returns to normal and there is no pain."

Military researchers claim that the system causes no long-term damage and the Department of Defense hopes to use it to avoid killing rioters or insurgents. The leader of the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate currently administering the program says the system falls somewhere "between bullets and a bullhorn" — designed to force people to back down without the complications of killing them and bystanders. Proponents of the system hope to arm troops "with a nonlethal capability in military operations other than war" — citing, for instance, peacekeeping and crowd control operations. For example, the beam could be focused on a street or other critical area, and the pain would cause rioters to flee from that area.


Wikipedia





Edit if you are not interested in watching the entire documentary, though you'd like to watch how the system works go to 18:00 minutes.

[edit on 13-9-2006 by Mdv2]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:17 AM
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i don't know to much about the weopons variety myself, but i know if you leave a spoon in a coffee cup when reheating it in a microwave oven you get a "fireworks display" inside with sparks ect going off. also am i right in thinking that these work in the same way as a microwave oven i.e. by heating from the inside outwards? efectively cooking your internal organs without leaving any external damage?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:25 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot

But where does this funding come from? the tax payer of course, but instead of looking after the taxpayer the only people the polititions ever look after is themselves and their own interests



oh wait, and then the greedy government PAYS the workers to build all of it. Wow, wait, is that how "economy" works? maybe I missed something here.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:35 AM
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Here's another supporting article

First off, this clown is talking about testing non-lethal weapons such as HPMW on US citizens... not just HPMW like some of you have stated. He's leaving the door open for other non-lethal weapons too.


WASHINGTON (AP) – Nonlethal weapons such as high-power microwave devices should be used on American citizens in crowd-control situations before being used on the battlefield, the Air Force secretary said Tuesday.


Second, how can he possibly (unless he has no conscious what-so-ever) suggest testing weapons on his own citizens... the ones that pay his F'N SALARY TO PROTECT THEM rather than on the enemy? This guy should be fired for this statement alone!

Thirdly, it just goes to show the increased police state we're living in when the government cares more about what the 'global community' thinks than it's citizens.

Lastly, who says they aren't lethal. Don't they claim Tazers are 'non-lethal' too? I hear stories all the time of police killing people with tazers and the police are never held responsible!

I'm so pissed at this guy's comments now that I'm physically shaking. This is another in a long list that shows the utter contempt the government has for the citizens. They keep forgetting they work for us, not the other way around!!!



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:36 AM
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Originally posted by masqua
What happens to those people who have medical metal implants (like I do) or even metal fillings in their teeth. Do these microwave weapons have the same effect as putting metal in a microwave oven?


Combining that thought with the Seattle Riots just made my heart smile. Hippy chants turning into a shower to sparks!

I mean, I don't like testing nonlethal systems (though it should be refered to as 'less-than-lethal', like a taser) on civillians, unless they're being naughty little children. Most people have seen tapes of the G8 riots, where protesters are coming in with surplus gas-masks and improvised weapons. They go to seminars on how to defeat police procedure, which is positively humane compared to the '60s policy of "club them till they stop resisting, and then club them until they learn their lesson".

Rubber bullets are dangerous as well, but if the microwave weapon is LESS dangerous...go for the gusto. It's safer for all involved. The choice of the matter is increasingly these sorts of newfangled devices, as compared to beanbags, rubber slugs, and Ol' Oaky.

Do we really need to give Ol' Oaky more exercize?

DE



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by mecheng
Lastly, who says they aren't lethal. Don't they claim Tazers are 'non-lethal' too? I hear stories all the time of police killing people with tazers and the police are never held responsible!


Tasers aren't non-lethal, they're under the less-than-lethal weapons category, like Ol' Oakey the Billyclub.

Secondly, as a citizen of any given state or national entity, I would wish that state or national entity to protect me from civil disturbance, such as rioting. Or do rioters have all the rights now?

DE



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:45 AM
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Rioters or protesters?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by solidshot
also am i right in thinking that these work in the same way as a microwave oven i.e. by heating from the inside outwards? efectively cooking your internal organs without leaving any external damage?


Actually that is a myth. Anyone who has ever tried to microwave a big chunk of frozen meat or a container of frozen soup you would be able to tell you that. You can read about it here along with other fun microwave myths.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by mecheng
Rioters or protesters?


Does it matter what you call the people smashing the windows of my bussiness?

DE



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by DeusExOr do rioters have all the rights now?


Everyone has rights (except the arabs in Guantanamo). Even people who have been charged with a crime have rights. This is the problem. People forget that. People have the right to protest and the police forget that.

Now, if the rioters have become violent, I believe the police have the right and ability to defend themselves and use their resources to bring the situation under control.

The problem is that many, many times the police abuse their power.
Protester Shot with Rubber Bullets Shows Police Disconnect, Brutality

More over, I don't like the comments about 'testing'... like protesters are now a bunch of gunea pigs.

Please answer this... if they are supposedly 'Non-Lethal' then why is he worried about using them on the battlefield? In a war you're going to kill people anyway. So why would there be outrage by the global community?



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