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Roswell Incident: Obvious Hoax

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posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok
For starters, flying discs were NOT synonymous with aliens in 1947.


Actually I believe the term "Flying Saucer" was coined in 1947. As I recall it dates back to an account of a pilot who saw craft shaped like two half crescents stuck together at the end and flying like "saucers skiping across water".


Originally posted by Gazrok
Sorry, but I'm not buying the secret test craft theory. Can you think of any reason a 50+ year old design that was successful wouldn't be in mass use today?


I guess it would depend on what you'd call successful. The government spent huge amounts of funds on the X-20 and the XB-70 only to "cancel" them. Quite possibly to develop them further under Aurora or another name.


Originally posted by Gazrok
Really? Can you think of any reason it would STILL be classified and under wraps?


Why not? Why would the government just say "Aw hell we've had this thing for 50yrs lets show off our neat toys"(i.e weapons, weapons platforms). Just suppose that the "myths" of Nikola Tesla, Henry Morey and Thomas Townsend Brown were true. What would that represent.

The US government is in possession of:
1. Vehicles capable of interstellar and perhaps even intergalactic travel.
2. Scalar technology(i.e. planetary weather modification, mind control and weapons so far beyong one other nations that who knows what the reaction of the rest of the world would be.

Why would the government(i.e military industrial complex)give up such power which it doesn't have to.




posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 11:38 PM
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Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by Gazrok
For starters, flying discs were NOT synonymous with aliens in 1947.


Actually I believe the term "Flying Saucer" was coined in 1947. As I recall it dates back to an account of a pilot who saw craft shaped like two half crescents stuck together at the end and flying like "saucers skiping across water".


Raises an interesting point about how quickly the term 'flying saucer' became synonymous with outer space or the unknown. Kenneth Arnold's 1947 experience coined the term, and in that same year we had the release of THIS song by The Buchanan Brothers - one of my favourite songs - works brilliantly after some Slayer and Slipknot. The song goes "you'd better pray to the lord when you see those flying saucers, it may be the coming of the Judgement Day" - it's a very catchy lively country / folk song.

1947 was such a massive year for UFO accounts, it soon catapulted the flying saucer into popular culture and into the wider populace very quickly indeed.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by RiotComing
1947 was such a massive year for UFO accounts, it soon catapulted the flying saucer into popular culture and into the wider populace very quickly indeed.


And influenced our perception of UFOs ever since. Kenneth Arnold didn't see "flying saucers" he described the craft as a semi-crescent shaped. But was misquoted or misinterpreted. And now every time you see a spaceship its envariably saucer shaped. How nice of all the aliens in the universe to redesign their craft to our specifications.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:08 AM
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"Over zealous Colonel "not in the know" with a deep curiosity in the growing UFO phenomenon jumps the gun and issues his press release
based on lose preliminary findings. " == nullster

Hardly a statement suited to someone who "made it to the top". He was on a fast track to USAF Chief of Staff but a heart attack in
the Pentagon ended his career at the grand old age of 50.

Interesting statement from Lt Haut in his Houston Chronical interview:
"He was a good guy," Haut says of Blanchard. "But you never crossed him. He didn't put up with foolishness. With him it was `do it and do it right'.


"On Feb. 19, 1965, General Blanchard became vice chief of Staff of the U.S. Air Force, with promotion to four-star rank. " == Source

Source
www.af.mil...



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by nightwing
Hardly a statement suited to someone who "made it to the top". He was on a fast track to USAF Chief of Staff but a heart attack in the Pentagon ended his career at the grand old age of 50.


Ah ha
Sounds like this guy was doing pretty well for a chicken col. This guy wasn't a fool. He stuck his neck out with that press release and was richly rewarded(or at least he would've been).


Originally posted by nightwing
Interesting statement from Lt Haut in his Houston Chronical interview:
"He was a good guy," Haut says of Blanchard. "But you never crossed him. He didn't put up with foolishness. With him it was `do it and do it right'.


Excellent research nightwing. You have pleased the syndicate and you will be rewarded.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by danwild6

Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
But then what do you make of the witnesses who swore they saw aliens at the crash site?
These citizens claim they saw beings that were clearly 'not human'.


From what I've been able to research these accounts didn't surface until the 70's. And involve a second crash site which their is even less information to substantiate.

The main site was what I was referring to, and the witnesses were locals who were booted out of the cordoned off area the night of the crash, by the military. I don't know when these accounts became public knowledge, but I have seen eyewitnesses testify about what they saw that day, and what the authorities who visited them later told them they didn't see and better shut up about.
I don't really care what happened that night in Roswell, but I sure have noticed that the gov't and military have spent bundles of money and time protesting that what the witnesses said they saw isn't what was really there.
One other note. I have long felt that even if there were some advanced, humanoid beings in these things that it doesn't necessarily mean they are from outer space. They could be terrestrial, and have always been here, living out of sight for the most part for whatever reason. Maybe they see us as brutal, murderous savages, and they are scared of us. I wouldn't blame them.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 04:09 AM
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Originally posted by Access Denied


No offense to the OP but why is this thread still open when there's already an active thread here on this exact same subject (Roswell) per stated ATS policy???

Here's the current thread on Roswell...

www.abovetopsecret.com...



I don't speak for ATS , I'm just a Member but it's simple.

The policy is that a new thread with an original take is accepted as a new thread. However, if the OP had simply started a thread about Roswell without a new take on the subject and just started a thread about Roswell in general then it would be shut down.

Much in the same way your own thread about Roswell is slightly different than general Roswell Incident threads.

What if ATS decided to close your current "Roswell" thread and refer everyone to Gazrok's "Roswell" thread?

For instance , there are hundreds of NASA T.V. incidents. The MODs would not close every NASA thread and only leave one thread about STS - 48 open because there are hundreds of other incidents that involve NASA.

However, if every other week someone posts the Sci-Fi channel UFO/Twin Towers commercial then you can expect the MODs to close those redundant threads.




[edit on 16-9-2006 by lost_shaman]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 05:43 AM
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I also seriously doubt that the Roswell incident was real. But by all means i believe 100% that there are alien species out there. probably highly advanced races just like us. But i find it highly unlikely that extraterrestrials have ever visited this planet.

If there were any civilized life in the surrounding areas of our solar system or even just outside we would have found it by now. which we havent.
that means that intellegent life is probably hundreds or millions of light years away.
so unless people want to suggest that a flying saucer travelled here at the speed of light for around 10 million years, finally got here and then crashed after all that time then i really dont see there being any truth in roswell.

unless they have found a way to travel faster than the speed of light maybe by altering time then i find it very unlikely that we have ever been visited by any other intelligent life forms.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 01:53 PM
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Give it up. Yes this thread deals with the Roswell "Incident". However I believe I'm putting forward a new arguement regarding what happened. If you can link to a thread that contains the theory that I propose then alright. But if your complaining and the mods aren't taking action then obviously your complaint in their eyes was not valid.



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by Access Denied
Give it up? No need to get defensive.


Not getting defensive just trying to get people posting on this thread to contribute to the discussion. If you want to complain then keep doing what you were before that is use the complain function.


Originally posted by Access Denied
The whole point of the policy (as I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong) is to encourage members to use the search function to see if a given topic has already been discussed or is being discussed (surely you noticed the current thread about Roswell?) to avoid redundancy.


Don't know what the policy is but this thread is two page long and hasn't been locked so I guess I'm not violating it whatever it is. And there are many threads on Roswell should we consolidate them all into one?


Originally posted by Access Denied
Anyway, if you had done this you would have noticed that on the very first page of the current thread another member asks the very question you claim to be a “new take” on this. Seems to me you could have just answered it with your own theory rather than starting a new thread.


I took a look at the link and I think you're being a bit disingenious.

Originally posted by Telos
So what's your point? You believe Roswell is a hoax, a invention by the government for a reason that god only knows?


Not worth cancelling a thread over IMHO



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Are there still people who think the Roswell incident is real? wow...


[edit on 16-9-2006 by Sphinx]



posted on Sep, 16 2006 @ 06:16 PM
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What makes you sure it is a hoax? I am totally non-plussed by all the evidence presented to refute it, and there has been alot. But I have not seen anywhere near all of it. Is there some irrefutable evidence that proves it was a hoax? I missed it. All the naysayers I have listened to have not convinced me yet. They are sure convinced, that is without question. But they haven't said anything that has changed my mind so far. If they are right, a lot of eyewitnesses who I have no reason to doubt, are liars. Maybe so. Why? They gained nothing by it and were widely ridiculed and laughed at. So why say it?



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
What makes you sure it is a hoax?


What makes you believe it isn't
Okay seriously I believe Roswell is a hoax perpetuated by the governmennt to cover up evidence of its own technological developments. The main reason I believe that because the government was so involved in the actual event becoming public knowledge in the first place.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I am totally non-plussed by all the evidence presented to refute it, and there has been alot. But I have not seen anywhere near all of it. Is there some irrefutable evidence that proves it was a hoax?


Have you seen irrefutable evidence proving that an alien spacecraft actually crashed.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
I missed it. All the naysayers I have listened to have not convinced me yet. They are sure convinced, that is without question.


Just as convinced as Fox Mulder.


Originally posted by BlackGuardXIII
But they haven't said anything that has changed my mind so far. If they are right, a lot of eyewitnesses who I have no reason to doubt, are liars. Maybe so. Why? They gained nothing by it and were widely ridiculed and laughed at. So why say it?


Or perhaps been manipulated or brainwashed. It is quite well known that the CIA and other agencies have long experimented with various mind control techniques.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 11:27 PM
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"I believe Roswell is a hoax perpetuated by the governmennt to cover up evidence of its own technological developments." == danwild6

I understand what you mean but this statement conveys the government in a fraudulent way. Leaving this unchallenged allows for
many to continue to build on their "bad" government viewpoints and conditioning. (Not picking on you, as this sort of thing
infests most forums, but this is an ATS Roswell forum. I wish to try and clean these up a bit.)

Hoax - an act intended to decieve or trick. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.
Fraud - All means devised by one individual to gain advantage over another. and includes any unfair way which another is cheated.
(Thumbnail of Blacks Law Dictionary)

Cover Story - a false story intended to decieve or mislead.

Fraud is a crime. But is the government committing fraud when they use a cover story to protect capabilities in a manner that
allows them to better protect you ? Absolutely NOT. In that case it is "capability camouflage". Legal since the days of Rome.

Restating your comment "I believe Roswell is a cover story (legal implication) to camouflage its own capabilities"
becomes VERY VERY INTERESTING.

"The main reason I believe that because the government was so involved in the actual event becoming public knowledge in the first place. " == danwild6

How was the government involved ? Please expand on this line of thought ?



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by nightwing
I understand what you mean but this statement conveys the government in a fraudulent way. Leaving this unchallenged allows for
many to continue to build on their "bad" government viewpoints and conditioning.


Well I'm not particlularly anti-government but whatever happened at roswell whether an alien craft did crash or it was a ploy to deceive the public then the government is being deceptive. Unless of course it was just a weather ballon.


Originally posted by nightwing
Fraud is a crime. But is the government committing fraud when they use a cover story to protect capabilities in a manner that
allows them to better protect you ? Absolutely NOT. In that case it is "capability camouflage". Legal since the days of Rome.


Actually I agree. A governments primary responsibility is to its citizens beyond a shadow of a doubt.


Originally posted by nightwing
Restating your comment "I believe Roswell is a cover story (legal implication) to camouflage its own capabilities"
becomes VERY VERY INTERESTING.


Okay the title of this thread is now Roswell: Just A Cover Story? Feel better nightwing?


Originally posted by nightwing
How was the government involved ? Please expand on this line of thought ?


Well it was the military that released the story of a recovered flying disc in the first place. Once again I don't believe that if a flying disc did crash and was recovered by the Army that they would've promptly have informed the media. People may want more in the way of hard evidence but to the believers what in the way of hard evidence do they have?



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 01:31 PM
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I know that the UFO aircrafts show up to watch over nuclear bomb tests. UFOs have cut off the power to nuclear missle bases before. The government did perform nuclear bomb tests in New Mexico around that time. According to some sources of information, the governments had shot a couple of these UFOs down in New Mexico with Roswell being one of the cases.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by realanswers
I know that the UFO aircrafts show up to watch over nuclear bomb tests. UFOs have cut off the power to nuclear missle bases before. The government did perform nuclear bomb tests in New Mexico around that time. According to some sources of information, the governments had shot a couple of these UFOs down in New Mexico with Roswell being one of the cases.


Well if we can shoot extra-terrestrial craft down then that would indicate we have technology far more advanced than publicly acknowledged. But still even if we did down a UFO I highly doubt the Army would've have then informed the media.



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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The 'Flying Saucer' statement released immediatly after the recovery of the craft was for the purpose of showing the american public that they now also had the technology that they had given up to Russia after WWII.... U.S. got the V2 and the Russians and British got the rest. This was seen by americans as a 'jip'. Americans demamded more of the 'spoils of war' than any of the other allies because of what it had cost them to fight...(makes sence to me...but evidently not to Truman...) not to mention the extreme growth of the military at an astonishing never before seen rate....which resulted in a 'Military-Industrial Complex'..which plagues the country to this day...but thats a whole other can of worms...
back to Roswell...

Roswell was their 'ace in the hole' ..the event that would put them finally on equal footing with their "Allies" and finally shut the mouths of unhappy americans feeling robbed of what was rightfully theirs after the war...until other voices in power began to get paranoid wondering what their "Allies" of WWII had done with the 'unknown' technology they had found in Germany by that time, 2 yrs after the war. Enter the cold war...



posted on Sep, 19 2006 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by PULVERlZER
The 'Flying Saucer' statement released immediatly after the recovery of the craft was for the purpose of showing the american public that they now also had the technology that they had given up to Russia after WWII.... U.S. got the V2 and the Russians and British got the rest.


I don't recall any such bargain from the info I've seen everything was up for grabs. The US got the V-2(as well as the bulk of the scientists that developed it)but the Russians also got V-2's. The all of the allies ended up getting hold of some ME-262s.


Originally posted by PULVERIZER
This was seen by americans as a 'jip'. Americans demamded more of the 'spoils of war' than any of the other allies because of what it had cost them to fight...(makes sence to me...but evidently not to Truman...)


Truman wasn't nearly as bad at dealing with the Soviets as Roosevelt was. He was still trying to get Stalin to come into the Pacific even when it was pretty clear we had the Japanese soundly beat.



posted on Sep, 20 2006 @ 11:28 PM
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"Well it was the military that released the story of a recovered flying disc in the first place." == danwild6

To be historical, it was the Army. (minor points have a way of becomming major issues)

"Once again I don't believe that if a flying disc did crash and was recovered by the Army (yes, historically correct)
that they would've promptly have informed the media." == danwild6

So what is your speculation as to why they appeared to have done that ? (Yes, I know what you are implying,
I am looking for a more direct statement.)

"People may want more in the way of hard evidence but to the believers what in the way of hard evidence do they have?" == danwild6

What in the way of hard evidence do the believers even need or want?



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