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Daniel Smith's Death "Unnatural"

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posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Ok, that is a pretty general relation, and none of the specifics of the cases have anything else in common.


So you think that because they aren't related medically, it's okay to turn this man's death into a public event?

There is no evidence of any crimina activity in this death, and the label "suspicious" means there was no apparent cause as far as the doctor who signed the death certificate could see. So, how about we just let the medical examiner finish the second autopsy, and let the famiily deal with this PRIVATE matter, rather than discussing it in the media and all over the internet?

Mariella




posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 03:13 PM
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I didn't turn this young man's death into a public event. It was reported in the media, that's where I read about it. I have every right to be curious given the reported circumstances of his death, and every right to post my opinions and speculation on this medical conspiracy board.

There is a suspected cause of death, and it is being withheld pending toxicology results.

It is not morbid curiousity or some type of desire for attention that is driving my interest in this case, but a genuine sense of the loss of a young, promising life, and a true desire to find out what happened so not only will the family have closure, but others may be able to avoid a similar fate.

I can't help but think you must be miffed at me over the Cat Parasite Causing Schizophrenia thread, and it is motivating your trolling of this thread. I admit to baiting you somewhat, but you are asking for it.

Again, please butt out!



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 03:27 PM
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So if this was some kid, who had average middle class parents, would this have even been MENTIONED on the news? It certainly wouldn't have a thread on ATS about it. This country really needs to get the "celebrity glitz and glamour" attitude under control.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
So if this was some kid, who had average middle class parents, would this have even been MENTIONED on the news? It certainly wouldn't have a thread on ATS about it. This country really needs to get the "celebrity glitz and glamour" attitude under control.


That is EXACTLY my point, thank you Zaphod.

And Icarus, please don't be so vain as to think I spend my days idly waiting for the chance to "troll" one of your threads. I have a job, a life, etc.

Mariella

[edit on 9/15/2006 by bsl4doc]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:48 PM
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bsl4doc, there are many different threads on ATS. One was about Steve Irwin's death, did you troll there too? Did you tell how the Australians are so fascinated with celebrities?

The truth is, if you don't like the thread then don't read it!



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by bsl4doc
So is this poor soul's death going to turn into a media circus like you all did for Terry Schiavo, too?


Didn't you get the memo? This is the AGE of the spectacle. Thank you, MSM.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:52 PM
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So if this was some kid, who had average middle class parents, would this have even been MENTIONED on the news? It certainly wouldn't have a thread on ATS about it. This country really needs to get the "celebrity glitz and glamour" attitude under control.


Again, it is not the celebrity hound mentality that is motivating my concern about this case. Is it so hard to figure out that what happened to Daniel, if it was an overdose, is happening to hundreds, if not thousands, of other young men and women around the world everyday?

Discussing it, looking beyond the glitz and glamour at what is motivating young people (or others) to destroy promising lives in such premature, tragic fashion is an important topic that needs more attention, not less.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:01 PM
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You know what? Everything about Anna and her son are a spectacle. She made it so via her choices to have her life be a reality show. So people got to "know them" in an unusually intimate way by her choice to invite people into her private life. Now we have the tragic death of a very young man who many are familiar with and there is geniune curiousity about the circumstances which seem out of place. What is so hard to deal with here?

It is a legitimate topic and it's being derailed by a sentiment that it shouldn't be discussed out of some sense of judgement (perhaps true) that people are too stuck on the lifestyles of the rich and famous. That is not a legitimate reason to derail a thread.

This is another example of a news story that is not static. It changes by the day. These are the types of news stories ATSers tend to look at in the first place. If people want to discuss it, let them, if you don't, go read another thread, but no one has a right to confront people for bringing the subject up.

I don't follow the rich and famous and I hate reality shows, but you know what? I would have liked to follow this thread. Seems pretty far off course now though.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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Thanks, Relentless.

I am trying to keep the thread on track and define my position accordingly. Please don't give up on it. I value your constructive input.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising


So if this was some kid, who had average middle class parents, would this have even been MENTIONED on the news? It certainly wouldn't have a thread on ATS about it. This country really needs to get the "celebrity glitz and glamour" attitude under control.


Again, it is not the celebrity hound mentality that is motivating my concern about this case. Is it so hard to figure out that what happened to Daniel, if it was an overdose, is happening to hundreds, if not thousands, of other young men and women around the world everyday?

Discussing it, looking beyond the glitz and glamour at what is motivating young people (or others) to destroy promising lives in such premature, tragic fashion is an important topic that needs more attention, not less.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]


Oh I know that's not YOUR reason for having the thread on it. I was just saying that the only reason that we heard anything about his death, is because of who his mother is. If his mother was a middle class nurse in Harlem, we wouldn't have heard anything at all about it.

Please don't take it as an attack on you or your thread, because it wasn't. If you find out there WAS something more to it, then that's outstanding work. I just feel like we shouldn't make such a huge deal about it because it was the son of a celebrity when it happens every day to "normal" people and we don't hear one word about it. This has been an interesting thread to read, and I think you might very well be onto something.

[edit on 9/15/2006 by Zaphod58]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:11 PM
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I agree that if this hadn't happened to Anna's son, under the related circumstances, it would not have been deemed newsworthy by the MSM.

That is not what is drawing my interest, as you pointed out. I admit to using the unfortunate young man's untimely death as a vehicle to draw attention to what I consider an important issue affecting young people in the world today. If my following this story and drawing attention to what happpened to young Daniel can prevent the same thing from happening to even one other person, this thread will have more than served its purpose.

Thank you for your follow up.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:23 PM
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I honestly hope that this thread DOES help. We really have to do something to help stop this from happening to anyone else.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by Zaphod58
So if this was some kid, who had average middle class parents, would this have even been MENTIONED on the news?


I agree. Because of the "celeb" status of the mom who is lets be honest really sketchy, this is now a media circus. I feel bad for her and thier family. Having seen more parents lose a child, I can not even begin to imagine her grief and loss at what is already an emotional time (just having delivered).

But thousands OD every day and its just a blip on some NIH statistical report. You can discuss this thread as you see fit, but I doubt little will come of this :shk:

THis reminds me of a bad accident scene with the rubber necking

[edit on 9/15/06 by FredT]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:40 PM
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Again, it is a matter of perspective, and your doubt in no way diminishes my resolve to shed light on incidences such as these in the hope that more of them can be avoided.

Even rubberneckers at an accident scene sometimes see more than they bargained for, twisted wreckage, blood and gore spattered about, broken and ruptured bodies. It may just motivate and encourage them to drive a little more carefully, thus saving themselves and others from a similar fate.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Again, it is a matter of perspective, and your doubt in no way diminishes my resolve to shed light on incidences such as these in the hope that more of them can be avoided.


Then you are to be commended for trying to gain insight from this. Alas the majority of the masses however seem to view this as a modern day version of Gladitorial combat (albiet after the fact) and the more shocking the better. This guy and whatever problems he had should be the concern of the family. Even if his mom craved the spotlight, he should be allowed some small measure of dignity as should his family. People Im afraid will learn little from this other than fuel the lowest common denominators seemingly insatable appetite for this tpe of stuff



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 05:04 AM
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As of this morning there is still nothing to indicate this death had anything to do with drugs, other than the rumor mill. Toxicology results have yet to be released, but doesn't anyone find that odd? It is the media that put that out for discussion, even though thereis no indication that the young man even had a drug problem.

I have a serious doubt about this due to the fact that the toxicology reports are taking so long to be released. It is my understanding that toxicology of the pressence of drugs and alcohol can ususally be determined quite quickly. Why is it taking so long. Perhaps some of us actually WANT to get past the media spin. That is one of the reasons I follow ATS instead of the mainstream media, and why I am particularly interested in following further developments.

Unfortunately, there are people here who are derailing the thread over whether or not it is even appropriate for discussion. Can we get over that please? There are a lot of conflicting issues at this point regarding the cause of death.

Anna's request to be "left alone" has a lot to do with the media jumping to conclusions over the possibility that her son abused drugs. This thread could actually be a venue for getting past the mainstream "conclusions". It is not like ATSers are hounding her the way the media does. They are just honestly discussing the developments in the case, except for those that condemn the discussion altogether for reasons of assumed motives of the people discussing it. Again I ask, can we please get over that and let the topic continue on track?



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 07:19 AM
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I hope it's not the same thing that my brother points out on a regular basis:

Kids ask him:
Are you Goth?
Am I dressed in black? Are you blind?
Are you Emo?
Do you see any slash marks on my wrist?

Basically implying that suicide is a trend, a popular one, at that.



posted on Sep, 17 2006 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by Relentless
As of this morning there is still nothing to indicate this death had anything to do with drugs, other than the rumor mill.


Toxicology reports do take some time. While the ones for stuff like opiods, benzodiazapines et al can come back fast, others take much longer. Many of the tests are done in only a few labs and the investagators are often reluctant to release information in a piecemeal fashion.



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 08:25 AM
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Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist who gained fame as a critic of the government's probe into John F. Kennedy's assassination and as a consultant in Elvis Presley's death, ruled out several potential natural causes including heart disease, stroke or a "congenital anomaly."

"I don't find anything that would cause me to believe there is something in terms of some traumatic injury that was inflicted, or somebody having done something to him in some cryptic manner that could not be observed," Wecht told reporters outside the morgue where he performed the procedure.


Interesting choice of words there. Exactly how would he determine if something had or hadn't been done to Daniel in a "cryptic manner that could not be observed?"

Mr. Wecht is an interesting case study in and of himself. He currently has some legal troubles of his own that are in the process of being sorted out.



Wecht, who holds both law and medical degrees, received international prominence as a critic of the Warren Commission's single-gunman theory of John F. Kennedy's assassination. He has also worked as a consultant on cases such as Presley's death and the slayings of JonBenet Ramsey and Laci Peterson. He is regularly interviewed on television about high-profile cases.

Wecht, 75, is facing trial on charges he used his staff when he was the Allegheny County coroner to do work for his multimillion-dollar private pathology practice. He resigned from office in January and contends he did nothing wrong.

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Interesting choice of individuals to come in and sort this thing out. The media and internet don't need to turn this story into a media circus. I'd say Anna's lawyers are doing a pretty good job of that all by themselves.

So, to sum up, first we have


Authorities said they believe they know what killed Smith but were waiting for a toxicology report to confirm the findings.

and now we have lawyers for the family bring in an expert to


Wecht was accompanied to the morgue by Michael Scott, Anna Nicole's Bahamian lawyer, who told reporters she had ordered the follow-up autopsy to end "media speculation surrounding the matter."

and the expert, under investigation and on trial himself, finds


The examiner who performed a second autopsy Sunday on Anna Nicole Smith's 20-year-old son said he could not yet determine the cause of death.

He said he has requested Daniel Smith's medical records from the United States and ordered further tests that could take weeks to complete. He said he had sent samples to a lab in the United States for further examination, including toxicology tests.


How all that is supposed to "end media speculation on the matter" is beyond me. What has really changed is there is now contention about the Bahamanian authorities' statement that they think they know the cause of death. We are still waiting for the outcome of toxicology reports, and the expert has ordered more tests that "may take weeks to complete." To me it goes back to the old classic stall tactic of "Act surprised, show confusion, deny, deny, deny."


[edit on 18-9-2006 by Icarus Rising]



posted on Sep, 18 2006 @ 08:08 PM
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Now Wecht is bringing in the fact that young Daniel was on anti-depressants.


Daniel Smith, who died three days after his mother gave birth to a daughter, began taking a "quite low" dosage of prescription antidepressants four to six weeks ago, said forensic pathologist Cyril Wecht.

Wecht learned about the prescription medication after the autopsy from Daniel Smith's psychiatrist in the United States. The depression apparently "had to do with a girlfriend," he said.

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This is turning into a very carefully crafted attempt to deflect attention from the real cause of death, and possible complicity from those involved, imo.



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