Yes it is supposed to be the video, i can't see anything at all. I was hoping that they would have a bigger better picture, maybe one surveillance camera at a time. If you found anything interesting let us know.

Questions:

Why no reaction from anyone there?

Any sign of the shadow of the plane to tell us which side of the Citgo it passed?

Where is the Pentagon? Which camera is supposed to be showing it?

I dare say Val's questions are more trenchant, but it's a start.

Originally posted by rich23
Questions:

Why no reaction from anyone there?

Any sign of the shadow of the plane to tell us which side of the Citgo it passed?

Where is the Pentagon? Which camera is supposed to be showing it?

I dare say Val's questions are more trenchant, but it's a start.

Nah, you've got mine covered here. The first thing was the lack of reaction from the person milling behind the counter. The second thing is - if the camera view in the middle left is the one we're supposed to be watching - it doesn't show anything. BUT, I do have one to add on.

What road or highway is it that we see cars coming and going on in the footage shown in the middle left?

EDIT: I'm not awake. I meant MIDDLE LEFT.

[edit on 9-16-2006 by Valhall]

Maybe the C130 had some part to play in one of the numerous wargames taking place that morning?

It has been well documented that one of these, Operation Vigilant Warrior was a live-fly exercise.

This will only lend more to the conspiracy theorists because they released a video that doesn't show anything, but wont release videos that do show something.

I mean, the Pentagon is supposed to be the most secure place in the world...you would think they would have hundreds of cameras there not to mention VDOT cameras, hotel cameras, other gas station cameras, etc.

Evidence Of Absence

Originally posted by elderban
This will only lend more to the conspiracy theorists because they released a video that doesn't show anything, but wont release videos that do show something.

This has got to be the coolest comment I've seen in a very long time.

Of course I must agree wholeheartedly. It's not hard to understand why so many conspiracy theories surround 9/11.

If the government doesn't want us to be suspicious, then it should stop acting so suspiciously.

Originally posted by Majic
Evidence Of Absence

Originally posted by elderban
This will only lend more to the conspiracy theorists because they released a video that doesn't show anything, but wont release videos that do show something.

This has got to be the coolest comment I've seen in a very long time.

Of course I must agree wholeheartedly. It's not hard to understand why so many conspiracy theories surround 9/11.

If the government doesn't want us to be suspicious, then it should stop acting so suspiciously.

No matter what the government does it will seem suspicious to those who only want to see something suspicious. There's this big assumption that the government DOES have video of something. So once again the unknown fuels Cts regardless. If they have no footage of anything, as they claim, what are they to do?

The other issue is that the CT movement is not something they address. Of course the CT movement doesn't see themselves this way so they see it as the government trying to hide from them. When in reality they simply can't be bothered by something they see as absurd.

Most have also likely been going through this thing a long time and learned that giving in to the CT movement will not help in any way and therfore have given up on bothering. The guy running the Hilton has probably been bothered so much by Theorists that he already knows what the conversation will entail, hence not wanting to deal with them. The Agencies know that even if they had footage so accurate that the passengers could be identified through the windows, that it would make no difference.

My point being that if they did release any footage (if they even DID have any) that it would be dismissed as fake anyways. So why bother? People would just find some fault of something they think doesn't add up.

Case in point. Thousands of eyewitnesses that day all saw the plane hit the pentagon. But this is quickly dismissed because of some potential video footage that probably does not even exist. Does that seem rational?

The Curse Of Representative Government

Originally posted by snoopy
My point being that if they did release any footage (if they even DID have any) that it would be dismissed as fake anyways. So why bother? People would just find some fault of something they think doesn't add up.

Because this government is supposed to be accountable to its citizens.

Any backlash it gets as a result of ignoring the concerns of the citizens is well-deserved.

And as far as I'm concerned, any American who doesn't question the U.S. government is guilty of dereliction of duty.

Our government will answer to us only as long as we question it, and not a moment longer.

Irrational Numbers

Originally posted by snoopy
Case in point. Thousands of eyewitnesses that day all saw the plane hit the pentagon. But this is quickly dismissed because of some potential video footage that probably does not even exist. Does that seem rational?

Some people dismiss it, others don't.

I understand and respect the point your making, and to a large extent I agree with it. I'm a skeptic, and most of what I've seen offered as "9/11 Conspiracies" simply don't make sense to me. They just don't add up.

But that's not true of all of them, and I still don't know who was really behind the attacks. I also don't trust the government to tell me, because it has a track record of lying to me and everyone I know again and again and again.

As best I can tell, the CIA is still smuggling drugs today, just as it was found to have been doing by the U.S. Congress several times in the past four decades. This is also the government that staged the Gulf of Tonkin imposture and countless other frauds against the people of this country.

So why should I believe the government? Heck, even the guys who founded this country warned that we should never trust the government they created!

Five long years later, many legitimate questions about 9/11 have still not been answered satisfactorily, but are instead labeled "conspiracy theories" and dismissed as if the people of the United States have no business knowing the facts behind the worst terrorist attack in the history of our nation.

That's not rational.

About that CITGO video what is strange that there are two different dates on it. One is showing 01-01-93 and the second 09-11-01.

Btw. This video is like those frames from Pentagon gate camera. It shows nothing "spectacular".

This video is a bunch of crap. If this is what the government wants to give us, why wouldn't we keep questioning them? Have you guys noticed that in the past two weeks, the idea of these conspiracies have also become extremely popular? I know its an obvious observation because of the recent 5th anniversary of 9|11, but even in the media, too, we've seen many more media outlets surprisingly become infatuated with the idea, enough for guys like Olbermann to grow a set and say what he feels for once on national TV.


I am very impressed with all of this. Keep it up ladies and gentleman! Let's expose all of this!!

Originally posted by TruthSeekerMP
Let's expose all of this!!

It could get messy.

Originally posted by snoopy

My point being that if they did release any footage (if they even DID have any) that it would be dismissed as fake anyways. So why bother? People would just find some fault of something they think doesn't add up.

Case in point. Thousands of eyewitnesses that day all saw the plane hit the pentagon. But this is quickly dismissed because of some potential video footage that probably does not even exist. Does that seem rational?

So....what was the reason to classify the vidoes that they used in Moussaouwi's trial? If they didn't have it, then why did they claim they did? And no, it doesn't seem rational.

[edit on 9/16/2006 by Griff]

Originally posted by Majic

Because this government is supposed to be accountable to its citizens.

Any backlash it gets as a result of ignoring the concerns of the citizens is well-deserved.

And as far as I'm concerned, any American who doesn't question the U.S. government is guilty of dereliction of duty.

Our government will answer to us only as long as we question it, and not a moment longer.

Irrational Numbers

Some people dismiss it, others don't.

I understand and respect the point your making, and to a large extent I agree with it. I'm a skeptic, and most of what I've seen offered as "9/11 Conspiracies" simply don't make sense to me. They just don't add up.

But that's not true of all of them, and I still don't know who was really behind the attacks. I also don't trust the government to tell me, because it has a track record of lying to me and everyone I know again and again and again.

As best I can tell, the CIA is still smuggling drugs today, just as it was found to have been doing by the U.S. Congress several times in the past four decades. This is also the government that staged the Gulf of Tonkin imposture and countless other frauds against the people of this country.

So why should I believe the government? Heck, even the guys who founded this country warned that we should never trust the government they created!

Five long years later, many legitimate questions about 9/11 have still not been answered satisfactorily, but are instead labeled "conspiracy theories" and dismissed as if the people of the United States have no business knowing the facts behind the worst terrorist attack in the history of our nation.

That's not rational.

The government is responsible to the people. but the government cannot have the resources to address everything that everyone wants. The CT movement is not a substantial one and not one that is taken seriously. That is not meant as an insult, else i would be insulting myself. But with all the termoil going on, I have a hard time believing that addressing the needs of the CT movement is hardly of any priority to the government agencies. Hence the need for court orders and what not. But to them it's just a bunch of nut jobs trying to waste their time. We're talking about the government. Not the most resourceful people.

And it's not an issue of questioning or not. It's an issue of not making assumptions because we don't get the answers we wanted to. Case in point is the OP saying that because the hotel manager did not want to talk to him, that he must have something to hide. That's an assumption and there could be a million reasons. Most likely that he was tired of being harrassed by CTers. Who knows. But the problem is filling in the blanks to reach a pre determined conclusion.

And likewise this doesn't mean all CTers dismiss things. It's just a generic statment as it would take too much typing to be very specific each time. So ther terminoogy is to be taken with a grain of salt for the sake of convenience sake.

What has ever been answered completely tpo everyone? It's really impossible in any situation. For any situationt here is always going to be someone unhappy. So where is the line drawn? The best that can be done is finding the most plausible explination. And that with more plausibility is what dictates my decision. Now maybe these guys will uncover something new that actually becomes more plausible, but until then the only reason to buy a less plausible scenario is due to bias.

No one likes the government, and like all governments they have lied. But that alone should not be a determining factor. Not liking the government should not play a role when going over evidence. And I think the opposite should be tru. People should not make decisions simply because they refuse to believe the government would do something. Obviosuly as we have seen, they are capable of doing such things. but capability alone is not guilt (not that anyone in particular is implying such things).

My only real point in the entire babbling of mine is that when there is conflicting evidence, the job is then to determine why they conflict and where the error lies. But instead many people just simply go with the evidence that supports what they want to hear and ignore the conflicting evidence. I think it's great that these guys went to DC and did research.

this all seems preaty good but there seems to be one thing you forgot. Is it not possible that the pentagon had these cammeras taken down as a security measure. Potential terrorists could hack into or get tapes fro these cammeras and plan an attack that way

Originally posted by ramonerocker320
this all seems preaty good but there seems to be one thing you forgot. Is it not possible that the pentagon had these cammeras taken down as a security measure. Potential terrorists could hack into or get tapes fro these cammeras and plan an attack that way

That posibility is out ruled since the official story states that it was a surpised attack, no one knew, no prior knowlege, the official story is to blame, it only caouses trouble and contradiction

Could it be possible that the video cameras were removed to expertly fabricate CG footage as accurately as possible? If so, would it stand to reason that the next round of footage to be released would be from the CITGO and the Sheraton?

If that's the case, and they are released next, then the removal of those cameras prior to the release of any footage purporting to be from those locations would make their authenticity highly suspect.

Great work and great thread. Well done

Seeing your photos of security cameras reminded me of my expedition to London and the MI6 building in 2005. It was less than a week before 7/7.



The MI6 building, as I assume is the same for the Pentagon, is bristling with security cameras. For the US government to maintain that the 5 released frames are about all we're going to be able to see concerning what hit the Pentagon on 9/11 is a travesty and an afront to the intelligence of Americans, and of those citizens who's own nations were dragged into the resulting outcomes of that day.

Also, does it not strike any one as odd that a Venezuelan-affilitiated/owned petrol station would be the choice to service the Pentagon's staff and personel? Also does it not strike any one as odd that Hugo Chavez would allow a CITGO petrol station to work for the office building that plotted his overthrow? Wouldnt the US government be suspicious of the people working at the CITGO, given it's links with Venezuela? Also if there was any indication that the CITGO security cameras caught anything suspicious or relevelant, wouldnt Chavez have brought that fact up?

[edit on 19/9/06 by subz]

Is there a witness out there? Someone with a camera that just was lucky enough to have snapped that vital pic which shows one way or another that it was/was not an airliner.

if there was i wonder if they are scared out of their minds knowing what they have.

Also: what is the ultimate aim of this all, all these people dead for what and why if it really is a hoax.

If someone else has already said this please forgive. Is it possible the tapes are still being kept under wraps for use in future court proceedings? If they release them they would be incompetent boobs would they not? Just my thoughts as I have not made up my mind about this.

Great post by the way