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Turkey to Acknowledge Armenian Genocide if Historians Take Corresponding Decision

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posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 09:31 AM
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Seems like the Truth always eventually comes out! lets wait and see. The Turks had a Christian holocaust against Armenians & Slavs during WW1 and have tried to keep it burried for years. This is one more reason to nail the lid on the coffin of gun control shut. Gov't kill people, more than anything else on the planet.

"Babacan said it in an interview published by Handelsblad Dutch newspaper and titled “Genocide Recognition by Turkey Not Ruled Out”. When asked, whether the Turkish government can admit a decision that will characterize the events taken place at the beginning of the 20th century as Genocide, the Turkish Minister said, “Yes, we will agree with any decision.”

www.yerkir.am...




posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 04:01 PM
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If the Turks publicly acknowledge what they did to the Armenians in 1915, I will be amazed. If they are going to do this, they should then also give the Armenians back the land they took from them!

I find it hard to believe the Turks will admit to the genocide finally after all these years, but anything is possible and it would be the right thing to do...finally!!



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
The Turks had a Christian holocaust against Armenians & Slavs during WW1 and have tried to keep it burried for years.


It was not a Christian holocaust, it was done in response to Armenian attempts to form their own Republic. Not to mention this happened under the Ottoman Empire, not under the current state of the Turkish Republic.


The point then becomes obvious. Any serious student of history knows that the Ottoman Empire was a vast mosaic of ethnic diversity. The Empire tolerated and treated with respect throughout its history Arabs, Bulgarians, Greeks, Slavs, Armenians and peoples of many other ethnicities. If these Young Turks were keen on their radical nationalism, why did they try to only exterminate the Armenians of all the different ethnicities?

The end of 19th century was completely transforming for the Ottoman Empire. With the advent of such ideas as democracy and nationalism, many groups within the Ottoman Empire claimed their independence — Balkan nations are such examples. Armenians, however, had not yet formed such an independent state. As the Ottoman Empire weakened, the Armenians saw World War I as an opportunity for independence. They have allied with Russia, who was battling the Ottoman Empire, to back-stab the Ottoman Nation from the inside. In their zeal against the Ottoman Nation, many villages were burned, innocent Turks killed, tortured and raped. As a result of these evil deeds, the Ottoman Government forcibly deported them to other regions (such as south-eastern Anatolia).

daily.stanford.edu...

The actions of the Armenians in my mind do not justify the zeal with which the Ottomans responded to the Armenians. But, you should not return the Turks aversion to history by trying to manipulate history yourself in some delusion of a "Christian holocaust."


[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Wow....Jamuhn.....that is total disinformation either provided by the Turks themselves, or one or more of their allies. The United States is one of their allies BTW!!



As the Ottoman Empire weakened, the Armenians saw World War I as an opportunity for independence. They have allied with Russia, who was battling the Ottoman Empire, to back-stab the Ottoman Nation from the inside. In their zeal against the Ottoman Nation, many villages were burned, innocent Turks killed, tortured and raped. As a result of these evil deeds, the Ottoman Government forcibly deported them to other regions (such as south-eastern Anatolia).



This is the same bogus tale the Turks have been telling for 91 years now. That they, the Turks, were the victims and the Armenians were the evil ones. This is why the Turks have always refused to admit to the genocide of 1915, because they would have to also come clean on the fact that they made up all the crap about the Armenians.

The Armenians weren't deported anywhere....they fled to Lebanon, Iran, etc.....fled to escape being killed. 1.5 million Armenians were killed. That is about 75% of the Armenians that were living at the time. If that isn't genocide, I don't know what is. Turks were killed, tortured and raped by Armenians? Man do you have your facts wrong!!

The Turks wanted more land.....pure and simple. The same reason armies have been fighting since the dawn of man. I WANT WHAT YOU HAVE!

Here's a few sources for you that share the facts...not the fiction created by Turkey!

www.armenian-genocide.org...
en.wikipedia.org...



from the second source above:

the Armenian Holocaust, Great Calamity (Մեծ Եղեռն) or the Armenian Massacre — refers to the forced mass evacuation and related deaths of hundreds of thousands or over a million Armenians, during the government of the Young Turks from 1915 to 1917 in the Ottoman Empire. Some main aspects of the event are a matter of ongoing dispute among the academic community and between parts of the international community and Turkey. Although generally agreed that events said to comprise the Armenian Genocide did occur, the Turkish government and several international historians reject that it was genocide, and claim that the deaths among the Armenians were not a result of a state-sponsored plan of mass extermination, but of inter-ethnic strife, disease and famine during the turmoil of World War I.

The event is also said to be the second-most studied case of genocide,[1]" and often draws comparison with the Holocaust and the Holodomor. To date 21 countries, as discussed below, have officially described it as genocide.



"Despite this thesis, most Armenian, Russian, Western, and an increasing number of Turkish scholars believe that the massacres were a case of genocide. For example, most Western sources point to the sheer scale of the death toll."

The sheer scale of the death toll: 1.5 million people

more sources:

www.theforgotten.org...
www.genocide1915.info...
www.armeniapedia.org...



from the third source above:

World War One gave the Young Turk government the cover and the excuse to carry out their plan. The plan was simple and its goal was clear. On April 24th 1915, commemorated worldwide by Armenians as Genocide Memorial Day, hundreds of Armenian leaders were murdered in Istanbul after being summoned and gathered. The now leaderless Armenian people were to follow. Across the Ottoman Empire (with the exception of Constantinople, presumably due to a large foreign presence), the same events transpired from village to village, from province to province.

The remarkable thing about the following events is the virtually complete cooperation of the Armenians. For a number of reasons they did not know what was planned for them and went along with "their" government's plan to "relocate them for their own good." First, the Armenians were asked to turn in hunting weapons for the war effort. Communities were often given quotas and would have to buy additional weapons from Turks to meet their quota. Later, the government would claim these weapons were proof that Armenians were about to rebel. The able bodied men were then "drafted" to help in the wartime effort. These men were either immediately killed or were worked to death. Now the villages and towns, with only women, children, and elderly left were systematically emptied. The remaining residents would be told to gather for a temporary relocation and to only bring what they could carry. The Armenians again obediently followed instructions and were "escorted" by Turkish Gendarmes in death marches.



www.umd.umich.edu...
www.hr-action.org...



from the second source above:

"I am confident that the whole history of the human race contains no such horrible episode as this. The great massacres and persecutions of the past seem almost insignificant when compared to the sufferings of the Armenian race in 1915."
Henry Morgenthau, Sr. US Ambassador to the Ottoman Empire


Yeah...Turkey was the victim of Armenia.....
GET A CLUE!


[edit on 12-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
If the Turks publicly acknowledge what they did to the Armenians in 1915, I will be amazed. If they are going to do this, they should then also give the Armenians back the land they took from them!

I find it hard to believe the Turks will admit to the genocide finally after all these years, but anything is possible and it would be the right thing to do...finally!!


The armenians have their own country already. I greatly support the Armenians, and the Kurds, I despise the Turks and their history of human rights errors. I also believe that if another country takes over another, a century later they are not required to give back anything, they should not pay for what their fathers had done, as nasty of a thing it was, they should give more economic assistance to Armenia, allow the Kurds a homeland out of the south eastern corner of the country that is usless to them anyways, and they should recognize Armenia's right to exist.

Also the poster made a great point, every time their is a massacre (Cambodia, USSR, Nazi Germany, Turkey) the country institutes a ban on guns. Guns are great for self defense, especially from Big Brother.



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 05:56 PM
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I really hate repeating myself, so I'll just quote what I said earlier.


Originally posted by Jamuhn
The actions of the Armenians in my mind do not justify the zeal with which the Ottomans responded to the Armenians. But, you should not return the Turks aversion to history by trying to manipulate history yourself in some delusion of a "Christian holocaust."



Why does your mentality preclude BOTH parties from being at fault? Of course the Ottomans were out of line with how the treated the Armenians, but its also obvious the Ottomans, like any other state, would fight the Armenians as extensions of Russia and as people trying to break up the state. The only difference is that the Ottomans went too far.

From your own sources...about the Armenian uprising...

The single event that started the chain is most likely the Russian victory over the Ottoman Empire in the War of 1877–78. At the end of this war the Russians took control over a large part of Armenian territory (including the city of Kars). The Russians claimed they were the supporters of Christians within the Ottoman Empire and now they were clearly militarily superior to the Ottomans. The weakening control of the Ottoman government over its empire in the following 15 years led many Armenians to believe that they could gain independence from them.

en.wikipedia.org...

As well, you call my source from the Stanford newspaper disinformation, then you proceed to try and demonize the Ottomans by using sources from no less, Armenians!

Perhaps your excitability is preventing you from seeing the truth of the situation.

By the way, looks like some Russians hacked one of your sources.
Apparently they want people to read about Armenian Terror.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 06:36 PM
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The actions of the Armenians in my mind do not justify the zeal with which the Ottomans responded to the Armenians. But, you should not return the Turks aversion to history by trying to manipulate history yourself in some delusion of a "Christian holocaust."


[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]


The Jewish holocaust was actually Germany's reaction to a communist uprising!
No wait, The Jewish holocaust was actually Germany's reaction to a homosexual uprising!
Um maybe this: The Jewish holocaust was actually Germany's reaction to a international banker uprising!
How about: The Jewish holocaust was actually Germany's reaction to a capitalist vs socialist uprising.
Jahmuhn it's time for you to wake up. Have you ever wondered how the center of Christianity (Constantinople/Istanbul) is 99.9% muslim. Let us just see how Christian Afghanistan & Iraq become from American/Christendom Occupation? I think even after 300 years the population will still be muslim UNLESS some extreme measures of cleansing are taken/forced conversions!
Just like the Ottomans did.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by BattleofBatoche]



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Have you ever wondered how the center of Christianity (Constantinople/Istanbul) is 99.9% muslim.


Have you ever wondered how lands that were under Ottoman control such as Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Armenia, Macedonia (I'm sure I'm missing some more) are still CHRISTIAN? Perhaps it is you who should wake up to reality.

As well, last time I checked the center of the bulk of Christianity (Catholicism) was and is in Rome.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Have you ever wondered how the center of Christianity (Constantinople/Istanbul) is 99.9% muslim.


Have you ever wondered how lands that were under Ottoman control such as Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Armenia, Macedonia (I'm sure I'm missing some more) are still CHRISTIAN? Perhaps it is you who should wake up to reality.

As well, last time I checked the center of the bulk of Christianity (Catholicism) was and is in Rome.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]


Now Rome is the center of Catholicism, Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantium empire (Eastern Rome). Constantine converted rome to Christianity, fought under the banner of the cross, the HaghSophia is a Christian Basillica.
Constantinople was the center of the Orthodox Christianity that now lives in Russia, etc.



posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by BattleofBatoche

Originally posted by Jamuhn

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche
Have you ever wondered how the center of Christianity (Constantinople/Istanbul) is 99.9% muslim.


Have you ever wondered how lands that were under Ottoman control such as Croatia, Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Armenia, Macedonia (I'm sure I'm missing some more) are still CHRISTIAN? Perhaps it is you who should wake up to reality.

As well, last time I checked the center of the bulk of Christianity (Catholicism) was and is in Rome.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]


Now Rome is the center of Catholicism, Constantinople was the capital of the Byzantium empire (Eastern Rome). Constantine converted rome to Christianity, fought under the banner of the cross, the HaghSophia is a Christian Basillica.
Constantinople was the center of the Orthodox Christianity that now lives in Russia, etc.


Rome was the established center of the Catholic (Christian) Empire in Europe well before Constantinople fell to the Ottomans around 1299.

The Byzantines, like most empires, eventually fell, just as the Aztecs and Mayans fell to the Europeans. How many Christians were in North/South America just 600 years ago? There were 0.

If you want to dispute the fact that states rise and fall, then take an unbiased look at history. Don't select just one empire because you have some kind of grudge against Muslims, which to me seems to be the case here.

[edit on 12-9-2006 by Jamuhn]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 04:30 PM
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Of course the Ottomans were out of line with how the treated the Armenians, but its also obvious the Ottomans, like any other state, would fight the Armenians as extensions of Russia and as people trying to break up the state. The only difference is that the Ottomans went too far.



All you can say is...the Ottomans went too far? That's it? Well, at least genocide is too far for you.



As well, you call my source from the Stanford newspaper disinformation, then you proceed to try and demonize the Ottomans by using sources from no less, Armenians!



Your source was disinformation. Any source that says what that source said would be spewing disinformation. I don't need any source for my information, because it is historical fact. I listed lots of sources...not just from Armenians...but I could come back in 5 minutes with 20 more from non-Armenian sites....would that make the information somehow different? They would all state the same things: facts!



Perhaps your excitability is preventing you from seeing the truth of the situation.



Or perhaps I have studied the subject in depth....and I see the truth quite clearly...



By the way, looks like some Russians hacked one of your sources.
Apparently they want people to read about Armenian Terror.



There's two sides to every story friend....and one is the truth.

And you tell me something is preventing ME from seeing?


edit to add: www.cbsnews.com...

from that source:


$20M Settlement For Armenians

LOS ANGELES, Jan. 29, 2004

Quote

Armenians have long asserted that 1.5 million people were executed between 1915 and 1919 by Turkish authorities. Turkey denies it was genocide and says the deaths were part of civil unrest during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


(AP) The descendants of some 1.5 million Armenians who were killed nearly 90 years ago in the Turkish Ottoman Empire will share in a $20 million settlement of a lawsuit for unpaid life insurance benefits.

The settlement with New York Life Insurance Co. announced Wednesday will help bring justice to survivors of those killed during "a deliberate, systematic and government-controlled genocide that began in April 1915," said state Insurance Commissioner John Garamendi, who helped negotiate the agreement.


CBS News...is that a pretty legit source?

or this?: www.colgate.edu...

Colgate University....

or this?: www.facinghistory.org...

ABC News....

or this?: www.cbc.ca...

CBC News in Canada...

or this?: www.anca.org...

The Boston Globe


Understand one last thing: The United States government is guilty of trying to cover up this genocide...why? Because Turkey has been one of the allies of the USA for a long time......so, it has been difficult to get the truth from legitimate sources because the govrnment tries to keep them from telling the truth. Take the Boston Globe article I posted for example....it explains how the Globe finally decides to stop covering up the truth:



BOSTON—After almost a quarter of a century of using evasive terminology and qualifiers to describe one of the most horrific events of the 20th Century, The Boston Globe has decided to suspend its policy against the use of the term “genocide” when referring to the Armenian Genocide, reported the Armenian National Committee (ANC) of Eastern Massachusetts.

In a letter dated July 8, 2003, Mr. Michael Larkin of the Globe informed the ANC that the Boston Globe has ended the “policy regarding the Armenian Genocide.” Mr. Larkin is Deputy Managing Editor of the Globe and the person in charge of Boston Globe Stylebook Policies.

“Thank you and your associates for your thoughtful efforts to enlighten me and the Globe about this and for your sincere request that we reconsider the policy,” Mr. Larkin wrote. “You have helped make us a better newspaper.”





[edit on 13-9-2006 by Excitable_Boy]



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