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Language. Subliminal Influence. Caution: This may alter the way you think.

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posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Athenion

Speaking of greek, Mars is the Roman name for a greek god, which they adopted from greek culture. His name was Ares. Can you find a relationship between the word Ares and Wars and Ram? Or how about Ares, embolo, and polemo?


Can i find a relationship between the words Aries and Wars and Ram?

Sure i can:

Mars is the Roman name for a Greek God who was named Aries, which was adopted from Greek culture, and both had the symbol of the Ram, and both Aries and Mars was the God of Wars.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]




posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 01:11 PM
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Originally posted by Athenion

You need to study up on your biblical history and hebrew. The reason he said "I am", is the ancient hebrew word for "I am" is "YHWH", which is also a translation of "Jehovah" or "God".


"i am"

"i am the way"

Ya, way

Yah, Way

YHWH

Yehwey

Edited to add:

AMEN

A MEN

AM MEN

AIM MEN

Aim men towards what?

A New Way

New Way

phonetically =

nu wa

amun

amen

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:03 PM
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Perhaps True LOVE and EMPATHY are a required prerequisite for seeing it.

I've noticed the post that contributed the LACK OF CONSISTANCY problem.

I've given it some thought about the consistancy issue.

And i have a response in the form of a question:

Are you currently aware of how many forms of communication are transpiring in your own body?

Are you fully conscious of all the different forms of communication being utilized by your own cells and the living organisms within those cells?

Some of you may be saying that i have "Let my mind go", to which i respond "Why are you holding yours back?"

-------------------------------------------------------

True Love and Empathy are required to gain access to truths

"Truth is in the eye of the beholder"

That is important, so i will say it one more time:

"Truth is in the eye of the beholder"

True love, True empathy

Let's pick an inanimate object and see if our subliminal mind may indeed implant some truth into a word we use.

Keeping the suggestion of Consistancy in mind i will only apply these rules:

1) Phonetically spelling the word or syllables out.

2) Reverse the syllables, and/or the word/words.

An inanimate object in everyday use ????

Cars / Automobiles

Now using empathy and Love to put me the observer in the "shoes" of the automobiles, can we think of what their concerns may be?

What is the biggest concern for a car?

They probably would want to be accepted, as we do, right?

What is one of the biggest problem with cars and automobiles?

Pollution is the first thing that comes to my mind.

In fact, automobiles are the #1 cause of Air Pollution in the world.

So, if i had enough True empathy to put myself in the place of a car/automobile, one of the biggest concerns i might have is the exhaust i am blowing out my tail pipe which is altering the environment for all other creatures on Earth.

If i were a car/automobile i would probably be concerned for my sustained acceptance in this world.

If i were a car i would say:

SEE I FART!!

SEE I FART.



Remembering my promise for consistancy i will FIRST spell out phonetically

See = C

C

I = I

I

FART = FART

C I FART

*consistancy:

Second i will reverse the entire sequence:

TRAF I C

Then i will reconnect them:

Trafic

What word in the english language is pronounced the same way as the above example?

TRAFFIC

From a car saying "SEE I FART" to ....

SEE I FART

C I FART

CIFART

reversed:

TRAFFIC!




[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:28 PM
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I'm just trying to help people catch up to let us stop ignoring our own reality and decide to pick all and then we might be able to mate (join) to our cells we are not listening to consciously, and once you have musterred all your brain cells together ........

Reward yourself with a good meal, pehaps a hamburger with ....

catch up, let us, pick all, to mate to, & mustard

Edited to add:

Or maybe you were not paying attention when someone told you:


YOU ARE WHAT YOU EAT

but, your subconscious mind was and is ....


[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:41 PM
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When something is written it has been writ.

If you seek the truth hard enough in the words that have been written (writ) you might be intorduced to humanity's greatest ....

SEEK WRIT

SEK WRIT

SEEK RET

SEK RET

SEC RET

SECRET.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:44 PM
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Great, now use that EXACT pattern on EVERY example you have used. Lets see if it works then? If not, then what you are doing is entirely arbitary, and therefore any idea of this being a workable theory goes out the window, because all you are doing is twisting words and phrases in a variety of ways to get what you want out of it.

If you can find a way of doing what you are doing that 'works' consistently, on every example you offer, in a set way. And that can then be applied to any language, then your onto something.

Otherwise this is just wishful thinking, however much you personally believe it...



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J
Great, now use that EXACT pattern on EVERY example you have used.


Why should i use the EXACT pattern on EVERY example i have used?

Does the subconscious mind only recognize ONE pattern?

Or is the subconscious mind capable of recognizing many patterns?


If you are not consciously aware of your subconscious mind, i guess this is a rhetorical question.

Edited to add:

Your request demonstrates an extremely "NARROW MINDEDNESS" if it is only capable of integrating absolutes.

There are many truths, dependant upon the eye of the observer.

However, i will compile a list of examples that i will apply consistant and "EXACT" principals to, to oblige your request.


Edited to Add:

Perhaps you have overlooked the fact that there are numerous example in this thread already where i have followed the same principals:

1) Spell out the word phonetically.

2) Seperate the syllables

3) Reverse the order of the syllables and/or the word.

4) Find the correct spelling in the english language that is also pronounced the same way as #3.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:06 PM
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Perhaps people think the bible is a bunch of bull they don't have to buy into.


Our intentionality is a variable.

Our conscious intentionality may responsible for how our subconscious mind's judge us, and dependant upon how our subconscious mind's judge us (more to the point how the part of our mind that remains true to ourselves, unlike our conscious mind) judges us, perhaps it is the judgement of our subconscious mind which retains information.

Perhaps our subconscious mind retains information from of us, because it is a bi-product of our conscious state of mind.

It is human nature to feel a need to control people and things, to make things more predictable, and provide you a sense of security.

Are you the type of person who burns more calories trying to make aspects of your reality and environment an extention of your will, or do you burn more calories attempting to become the extention of the wills of others?

Our intentions dictate how our brains hardwire the conscious mind, but not the subconscious mind, which is taking in a lot more information than that of what we are consciously aware of.

Do you think i am playing word games?

CONSISTANTLY:

1) Phonetically, simplify it like a child would:

simplify, like a child would.

See, i play game.

See i game

See i gam

C i gam

C I GAM

2) I will reverse the letters:

MAGIC



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher

Why should i use the EXACT pattern on EVERY example i have used?

Does the subconscious mind only recognize ONE pattern?

Or is the subconscious mind capable of recognizing many patterns?


If you are not consciously aware of your subconscious mind, i guess this is a rhetorical question.

Edited to add:

Your request demonstrates an extremely "NARROW MINDEDNESS" if it is only capable of integrating absolutes.

There are many truths, dependant upon the eye of the observer.

However, i will compile a list of examples that i will apply consistant and "EXACT" principals to, to oblige your request.


Edited to Add:

Perhaps you have overlooked the fact that there are numerous example in this thread already where i have followed the same principals:

1) Spell out the word phonetically.

2) Seperate the syllables

3) Reverse the order of the syllables and/or the word.

4) Find the correct spelling in the english language that is also pronounced the same way as #3.

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Esoteric Teacher]


Why should you? Becuase you're not proving anything if the system is arbitarty, for then there is no system at all!

And prehaps you can explain why in some example you have flipped a y into an h or a w into an m, but not in all of them? Now thats a rhetorical question, because the answer is obvious, your example wouldn;t work if you did/didn;t do that.

Your entire point hinges on you being able to find sensical words, and when you can find them, your system 'works', but when you can't, you start flipping letters around until it does.

Just because after an number of arbitary manipulations you can find something which might make sense when interpretted in a particular way is not proof of anything.

What i truely fail to understand is how you even offer example that don;t make any sense! Where either you've ended up with words you then need to make up an entire sentence in which to put them in to make sense, or where you come up with something like the 'God's Nail' example, which doesn;t make any sense whatsoever.

I am impressed at the amount of effort you have put into this, but i think it is rather misplaced. You have made no reply at all to my 'backwards speech' comparison, and now heres another. Ever seen the film 'A beautiful mind'? Whereas it isn;t exactly a good biopic of its protagonist, it does get across a point about people believe things because they think they are there. For instance when he spent years finding codes in newspapers and magazines that WERE NOT THERE. He found them becuase he believed they were there. He twisted the facts to obtain the conclusion he was certain was there.

And that is exactly what you seem to be doing...



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
Do you think i am playing word games?


Whether you understand that point or not, YES that is exactly what your doing.

And your see i play game example is ludicrous.

Where did the entire word play go to? You want em to believe the whole damn thing is silent? And why would it have to be? Oh, because your example would not work otherwise...

[edit on 15-9-2006 by Vector J]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J

Why should you? Becuase you're not proving anything if the system is arbitarty, for then there is no system at all!


I have adressed this issue already, in numerous posts in this thread. Your mind is capable of identifying different patterns, whether you are conscious of it or not.


And prehaps you can explain why in some example you have flipped a y into an h or a w into an m, but not in all of them?


Falling back to the response to the previous post, i have also already addressed this issue as well. You are mostly water. Water conducts electricity. Your brain cells utilize electrical impulses to communicate and pass along bits of information. Sometimes there is a misfire. Multiple meanings can be derived, extracted, and implanted into language by the subconscious mind.


Your entire point hinges on you being able to find sensical words, and when you can find them, your system 'works', but when you can't, you start flipping letters around until it does.


not true.

multiple meanings can be extracted, because the mind can identify many multiple patterns.

Example:

bible

Phoenetically:

Bi bul

Bi = 2

bul = bull (english spelling of phoenetical findings)

result: 2 Bulls.

Like the ram, 2 bulls will compete, they will ram heads, they will conflict, which is what our mind is doing to itself. If you disagree with this assesment, then why are our minds broken into seperated pieces?

bible

mirror image =

eldid

pronounce it aloud, repeatedly. it sounds extremely similar to:

hel did

hell did

make the "i" a long sound:

hell died.

but if you wanted to make the "e" in hell a long sound ....

hel did

"hel" with the long sounding "e" would be spelled in english as:

"heal"

so, another interpretation would be:

heal did

reverse the words:

did heal.

All three are true. All three are consistant with terms and abstract intangible ideas that parrallel the teachings of the book.

Using different methods i extracted the following terms from the word "bible":

Buy bull, 2 bull, hell died, and did heal

dependant upon the intentionality of the observer on the concsious level mind, the subconscious mind's pattern recognitions bubble up to the "cusp" of consciousness, and i believe have an influence on our emotional state (amplifying our moods, behaviors, intentions, and cellular addictions to our own neuropeptides).

I can utilize the same "system" continually, however not all souls are the same, nor are our moods consistant from moment to moment, so the impact of multiple subliminal encodings may change moment to moment.

An example of this would be your own handwriting, your own signature.

Your signature is not consistant, is it?

Do you sign your name consistantly when your in a real good mood as compared to when you are in a real bad mood?


I am impressed at the amount of effort you have put into this, but i think it is rather misplaced. You have made no reply at all to my 'backwards speech' comparison, and now heres another. Ever seen the film 'A beautiful mind'? Whereas it isn;t exactly a good biopic of its protagonist, it does get across a point about people believe things because they think they are there. For instance when he spent years finding codes in newspapers and magazines that WERE NOT THERE. He found them becuase he believed they were there. He twisted the facts to obtain the conclusion he was certain was there.


Point well taken, and i do take to heart your objections.

I have provided multiple examples in this thread thus far to demonstrate different patterns that exist.

I will compile a list of examples that fit your criteria of following the same techniques to extract meanings.

I will follow the same rules to all the words and phrases. But, key words and the "law of association" also play a part in it. It is how my brain works, as do others.

The words are not always created by people with identical intentions, therefore the encodings may differ.

The variables that i am adamant about believing exist are:

1) The intentions of the observer.

2) The "Law of Association" which are how our brains work.

3) Misfiring of electrical impulses between brain cells in water, which conducts electricity.

4) Enough Love and Empathy to view or observe through the eyes of another lifeform, or an object, concept, or idea.

5) how the portion of our mind that remains true to ourselves judges ourselves.

-------------------------------------------

As promised i will use the same processes to retrieve possible meanings from words.

My steps will probably be:

1) I shall spell out the word phonetically as simple as i can, like the mind of a child would think.

2) I shall reverse the syllables, or the word/words.

3) I will find the correct spelling of the pronunciation of the word in english.

-------------------------------------

I comprehend your point.

You want an absolute. You want the definitive steps for all words and phrases, in all languages.

Is this what i have to supply for you in order to see any truth in it?

Do i have to employ the same techniques to every word and every phrase in every language to prove this to you?

It is not my intention to prove this to you.

I do not feel compelled to do so, as i think it would be wrong.

It is my intention to try to reveal something to you, it is my intention to try to introduce the possibilty of it.

Your points are valid ones. I thank you for your contribution, as i love to think.

I'm givin you a wats for making me think, which is why i am here.

Don't let up just because you got a reward of sorts, i enjoy the dialogue.

i admit i don't have all answers, but i have a mind that calculates multiple angles simultaneously, with regards to everyday scenarios, peoples opinions, and yes, even language. i see how multiple truths can exist at the same time, and i understand how they are right.

As your case, i can both see how you are correct in your criticism of this thread, and i can also see how i am right concerning the context and concepts introduced in this thread.

At any rate, thanks for the input.

and again, wats up



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:30 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J

Where did the entire word play go to?


i did not need the word "play", because i had the word "game".

what else does one do in a game, if not play?

but, most games have a ref. A ref dressed in bars.

ref

reversed:

fer

with a long sound to the "e", the correct spelling would be "fear".

a man called "fear" wearing a uniform that is black and white bars, where the truth of the game lies, who is neither on the offense, or the defense.

Games.

Hockey.

Hocky is played with a puc.

They compete for a cup

Keywords.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 05:32 PM
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You have voted Vector J for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have one more vote left for this month.


Thanks again Vector J for your contributions.

I will spend some time considering your thoughts on the subject.

Keep up the good work.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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Ok, this is going to be a long one! And i thank you for taking the time to actualy have this dialogue with me, as opposed to simply ignoring me, which as lesser person than yourself may have done.


Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
I have adressed this issue already, in numerous posts in this thread. Your mind is capable of identifying different patterns, whether you are conscious of it or not.


Of course, the mind constantly looks for patterns, this is why we often interpret human faces in things, the same idea behind cloud watching and seeing them form shapes, this is simply what our mind does, looks for patterns. I hope you understand that it always does this, even when there are none to be found. And depending on your belief about what you are looking for, you may accept a pattern you think you have found to illustrate part of your theory, and then because you believe in it so truly, each new pattern you find, that manages to correlate to your theory, you will also assume is correct and contirubte to the overall idea you believe in. You believe that the subconscious mind influences writing in a way that we can decipher into various meanings, you believe this so whole heartedly that you will continue to go through an idea until you have found a way to make it make sense. This is exemplified by your idea that multiple means can still allow for a cohesive theory.

What I am trying to explain is from both a linguistic and neurological standing, is that this simply does not make sense. Why would the mind encode things within writing that can be interpreted in many ways? How would it know that the listener would interpret the message in the required way?


Falling back to the response to the previous post, i have also already addressed this issue as well. You are mostly water. Water conducts electricity. Your brain cells utilize electrical impulses to communicate and pass along bits of information. Sometimes there is a misfire. Multiple meanings can be derived, extracted, and implanted into language by the subconscious mind.


Yes, we are 70 or so percent water, and yes water does conduct electricity. However electrical conduction through water is not how the brain works. After a sufficient depolarisation of the dendrites of a cell, an action potential occurs, this action potential is propagated in a unidirectional way and information is passed across a synaptic gap by neurotrophins. I wouldn’t want you quoting me on that, but I have taken a neuroscience course, so I think this is slightly more accurate than electrical conduction through water. That was all rather spurious though, as I don’t debate misfirings occurring, however I do not belive they contribute to multiple meanings being derived, I’d say that was more the part of other centers in the brains being capable of deriving multiple meanings from a single piece of information. I’m not convinced that these misfires have anything to do with what the subconscious memory is doing either.



not true.

multiple meanings can be extracted, because the mind can identify many multiple patterns.

Example:

bible

Phoenetically:

Bi bul

Bi = 2

bul = bull (english spelling of phoenetical findings)

result: 2 Bulls.

Like the ram, 2 bulls will compete, they will ram heads, they will conflict, which is what our mind is doing to itself. If you disagree with this assesment, then why are our minds broken into seperated pieces?

bible

mirror image =

eldid

pronounce it aloud, repeatedly. it sounds extremely similar to:

hel did

hell did

make the "i" a long sound:

hell died.

but if you wanted to make the "e" in hell a long sound ....

hel did

"hel" with the long sounding "e" would be spelled in english as:

"heal"

so, another interpretation would be:

heal did

reverse the words:

did heal.

All three are true. All three are consistant with terms and abstract intangible ideas that parrallel the teachings of the book.

Using different methods i extracted the following terms from the word "bible":

Buy bull, 2 bull, hell died, and did heal


I believe you rather just proved my point, you can take what you will from a word or phrase depending on how you dissect it. How can you decide which was meant in any given example, and how can you know another person would also take the intended menaing, and not another one, at the subconscious level?

Afterall, if another brain cannot correctly decipher another minds encoding, then the initial coding is entirely pointless, no?



dependant upon the intentionality of the observer on the concsious level mind, the subconscious mind's pattern recognitions bubble up to the "cusp" of consciousness, and i believe have an influence on our emotional state (amplifying our moods, behaviors, intentions, and cellular addictions to our own neuropeptides).


Ok I kinda see what you mena, but I don’t understand what point you are making?



I can utilize the same "system" continually, however not all souls are the same, nor are our moods consistant from moment to moment, so the impact of multiple subliminal encodings may change moment to moment.


If they change from moment to moment, then what on earth is the point? Surely encoding is there so that it can be deciphered by another mind, but if the two peoples emotional states are different, then whats the point, as the message will not be correctly understood?



An example of this would be your own handwriting, your own signature.

Your signature is not consistant, is it?

Do you sign your name consistantly when your in a real good mood as compared to when you are in a real bad mood?


Nope, it changes a lot, and I have no doubt that it depends on current state of mind. But again, how can you interpret stuff from it if you are unaware of my state of mind at the time? Is the encoding just a personal record for my own mind of what its intentions etc are? Because surely no other mind could understand it, not knowing my mind state when I wrote it. Or are some interpretations constant?



Point well taken, and i do take to heart your objections.

I have provided multiple examples in this thread thus far to demonstrate different patterns that exist.


You have certainly shown that isolated example can be twisted in a variety of ways to fit the conclusions you’ve already decided you want to draw.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:19 PM
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I will compile a list of examples that fit your criteria of following the same techniques to extract meanings.

I will follow the same rules to all the words and phrases. But, key words and the "law of association" also play a part in it. It is how my brain works, as do others.

The words are not always created by people with identical intentions, therefore the encodings may differ.


As is becoming the common theme to my post here, if the encodings can differ, what is there point?



The variables that i am adamant about believing exist are:

1) The intentions of the observer.

2) The "Law of Association" which are how our brains work.

3) Misfiring of electrical impulses between brain cells in water, which conducts electricity.

4) Enough Love and Empathy to view or observe through the eyes of another lifeform, or an object, concept, or idea.

5) how the portion of our mind that remains true to ourselves judges ourselves.


1 and 2 I can understand, 3 is really neither here nor there, 4 and 5 are again very much individual things, so again, how can ones persons intentions and encoding be accurately deciphered by someone else, when you freely admit many interpretations are possible? To say that there are many ways for encoding and interpretations to work is surely the same things as to say that you can twist and tweak a word or phrase in any way whatsoever to gain a result, and that that result is one of mnay. If this is true, then what on earth is the point, if the orginal idea from the original author truly cannot be perceived?




As promised i will use the same processes to retrieve possible meanings from words.

My steps will probably be:

1) I shall spell out the word phonetically as simple as i can, like the mind of a child would think.

2) I shall reverse the syllables, or the word/words.

3) I will find the correct spelling of the pronunciation of the word in english.



I look forward to it.




I comprehend your point.

You want an absolute. You want the definitive steps for all words and phrases, in all languages.

Is this what i have to supply for you in order to see any truth in it?


Yup, becayse otherwise it is simply coincidence with you having twisted reality to your own ends.



Do i have to employ the same techniques to every word and every phrase in every language to prove this to you?


Yes, otherwise as I have explained above, I don’t see it as much of a cohesive theory.



It is not my intention to prove this to you.


That is a shame, however being quite a conceptual point I imagine you would agree that this cannot be proved, only strongly implied, which I believe you are yet to do.



I do not feel compelled to do so, as i think it would be wrong.


How so?



It is my intention to try to reveal something to you, it is my intention to try to introduce the possibilty of it.


Well you have certainly managed that my friend, you have indeed opened my eyes to the possibility. However the way in which you have done it has proceeded to stab those open eyes by not following any sensical or logical process.



Your points are valid ones. I thank you for your contribution, as i love to think.


Same here, you have certainly made me think, and I have certainly enjoyed the challenge of a new idea.



I'm givin you a wats for making me think, which is why i am here.


Thanks very much.



Don't let up just because you got a reward of sorts, i enjoy the dialogue.


Oh my friend for 1000000 ATS points I wouldn’t give up on this. Its too intriguing.



i admit i don't have all answers, but i have a mind that calculates multiple angles simultaneously, with regards to everyday scenarios, peoples opinions, and yes, even language. i see how multiple truths can exist at the same time, and i understand how they are right.


I understand the notion of multiple truths, but unless the specifically intended truth can be understood by all, then what is the point?



As your case, i can both see how you are correct in your criticism of this thread, and i can also see how i am right concerning the context and concepts introduced in this thread.


You are perfectly correct in proposing this idea of yours, and I am perfectly correct in exposing what I see to be gapping holes in it!

I was initialling thinking, ‘why on earth have people been giving wats to this guy, when his theories make no sense.’, and then I thought, ‘well he;s given me one, but I think his theory is massively flawed, so I won’t give him anything’, but I finally decided that you have indeed gone way above top secret in proposing a genuinely interesting, albeit to my mind flawed, theory, and that you have in general debated your criticises very well, and so I think you fully deserve one for informing me to a very interesting way of viewing written language, and for a treuly enjoyable and fascinating debate on it…


[edit on 15-9-2006 by Vector J]



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 06:21 PM
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You have voted Esoteric Teacher for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes left for this month.


As i said above, this has been excellent food for thought, and i look forward to continuing this discussion!...



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 07:42 PM
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Vector -

I just spent nearly an hour answering your question, which somehow did not post, and was inadvertently deleted, somehow.

I will gather my thoughts, and start again re-addressing your AWESOME Questions from your previous post.

I'm sorry for the delay, and i'm not sure how my entire response was deleted prior to posting.

You hit the nail on the head with the question you asked.

It was the certainly one of the best (top 3 easily) questions i have been asked since i have joined ATS.

And it is worthy of an answer.

I'm going to go gather my thoughts, and grab a bite to eat, but i will return to address your question.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 07:57 PM
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Esoteric Teacher,

I am very sorry to hear that your reply got deleted, bloody message boards! It's happened to me in the past several times, you write a long thought out post, and in an instant, due to a board cock up, its gone, incredibly infuriating. I very much look forward to when you manage to redo the post.

I will say now that i apologise if it is a few days before i can reply to it, I am going away for part of this weekend, but i hope to be able to reply to you by Sunday night
...



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 08:51 PM
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My goodness, what a bunch of windbagging going on in here. I am sorry to sound nonconstructive, and I certainly know that my post is meaningless to you intellectuals here, but alas, I could not help myself.

Your OCD is showing.
My tourrettes is too.


I know - if I don't like it, don't read it.
I know - nothing good to say, don't say a thing
I know I know, evil me.






**Just so we are perfectly clear here, perhaps one of you can reverse speech my above comments and let me know what I really mean.



posted on Sep, 15 2006 @ 10:13 PM
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Originally posted by Vector J
How can you decide which was meant in any given example, and how can you know another person would also take the intended menaing, and not another one, at the subconscious level?

Afterall, if another brain cannot correctly decipher another minds encoding, then the initial coding is entirely pointless, no?



Originally posted by Vector J
Surely encoding is there so that it can be deciphered by another mind, but if the two peoples emotional states are different, then whats the point, as the message will not be correctly understood?


Originally posted by Vector J
………so again, how can ones persons intentions and encoding be accurately deciphered by someone else, when you freely admit many interpretations are possible?


The meat and potatos. You have most assuredly earned your wats this day. I will address your question, however I need to share my thought processes in order to lay down the foundation for my answer, which will re-enforce my justification, and allow you to understand my mind set a little better.

I think all your questions above are parrellel in their concept. I will give my best attempt to answer the question I have [b][/b] the words to, as I think you were asking the same question.

I think there is a portion of our subconscious mind that does remain true to ourselves, whereas this is not always the case with our conscious state of mind.

The problem lies in our yearning to belong, and more to the point our fear of not being accepted for who we are. Everyone wants to belong, and no one truly wants to be alone.

Consider the following:

Are you the same person with your neighbor, as you are your sibling?

Are you the same person with your boss as you are with your subordinates?

Are you the same person with your best friend as you are with your lover?

Do we exhibit the same character traits and personality with everyone we encounter in our everyday lives?

We have within us an inherent desire to be accepted, to be wanted, to be needed.

We also have an inherent desire to seek out security and safety. These true human tendancies cause us to condition ourselves to react accordingly, to react according to our intentions of feeling safe, secure, being accepted, being wanted, and being needed.

We find being safe, secure, accepted, wanted, and needed by other people by forming relationships with people. We learn their likes, and dislikes. And we use this knowledge of what they like and dislike throughout our relationships with them.

It is human nature to want to be able to control aspects of our environment, to include the people in our environment.

So, out of the fear of not belonging we react to them in a way that either best serves us, best serves them, or best serves eachother.

We interact with other people in a way that is beneficial to our yearning for a sense of belonging, and not being alone.

But, we usually aren’t the same person with everyone in our lives.
Over the course of years, or perhaps decades, we live our lives, to an extent, through the eyes of others, and their opinions influence ours.

But, there is a remedy to the problem of defining yourself by the perspective of others.

Perhaps we need only let go of the intention of impressing others.

I have a suggested remedy:

Keep a journal, or diary. Not just any journal/diary. But your journal, your diary.

And as you write in your journal Know, absolutely know that no one else shall ever read it.

It is for you, and for you alone. As you write down your own thoughts the “masks” and “faces” we put on for others need no longer exist. There will be absolutely no intentions of impressing anyone. And, what need is there for you to lie to yourself? None, none whatsoever. So, don’t.

As you write, ask the questions that are important to you. Write them out if you have to. And answer them as best you can. Speculation is not a sin, speculation is a tool you have at your disposal. Ask a question, and if you don’t know the answer, just think about all you know is true and come up with the best possible answer, the most logical path of reason for yourself.

Once you find an answer you think fits, another question may present itself as you follow your own logic. Keep asking the questions that are important to you, and arriving at the most logical answer, ask the next questions.

Perhaps, if you follow it through, speculation will fall away, and you will find what it is you are seeking.

Do you honestly believe you could have the capacity to ask a question, if your subconscious mind did not already have an answer for you?

All information that bubbles up to the top of the brain, the conscious part, comes from the subconscious part. All sensory input to the brain, from all your senses, first gets delivered to the subconscious part of your brain, then your subconscious provides what information your conscious mind can accept, or is compatible with the accepted facts of the conscious part of your mind.

How can one truly know the intentions of others, without having first understood one’s own intentions?

I am still in AWE of your question. It is one of the most challenging and thought provoking questions I have been asked here on ATS. Thanks Vector. And, I think the single best questions posed to me here on ATS.

The question was:

Originally posted by Vector J
………so again, how can ones persons intentions and encoding be accurately deciphered by someone else, when you freely admit many interpretations are possible?


If the “someone else” knew themselves and their motivations, their intentions, and resolve all internal conflicts, prior to allowing them to surface in our shared reality, then understanding what internal mechanisms which bring about the intentions of others becomes infinitely more clear. I know this may be really difficult for some to swallow at this time in their lives, but I would wager not only my next paycheck on it, I would wager my entire existence on it, if I were a gambling man that is.

There have been some very wise and enlightened people to walk this earth, let me share a couple of quotes with you:



“He who looks outwards dreams, he who looks inward awakens”



“What you are looking for is what is looking”
-- Saint Francis of Assisi


I am trying my best to answer your questions, however I often find the words to express my thoughts do not exist in my vocabulary, and if I am failing to express my thoughts sufficiently enough, I apologize Vector J.

However, I can most assuredly continue to say the same thing, in many different ways, but language does inhibit this intangible concept, to a degree.



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