Shiva = Dracula

I think this pale skinned depiction that has you convinced of him being caucasian, is really of Shiva covered with ashes instead, not that he has white skin.

Have you seen a Shiva yogi covered in ash? How do you think they might describe him??? Like I said, I'm NOT here to smash your whole theory, just letting you know I think you're looking at the wrong deity for connections to a dracula type figure.




forget a word and you can change the whole context of what you're trying to say I really hate when I forget entire words

[edit on 9-13-2006 by worldwatcher]

'Can you google.' Yep. but you started it, bucko. By acting all uppety by my simple bit of magical text.

I already pointed out that Shiva (or siva as it should be written) is covered in ashes from graves to make him white.

Please read before posting. I call this new phenomena con-sid-er-ation.


Ganesha could ride a mouse or a rat or a rat is his motif. You can't say which. The rat is the symbol of removing obstacles because it can bite through anything. In Dracula it is the rats that sway Renfield's mind enough to allow Draccy to enter the asylum and snack on Mina Harker ass.

hence we see a direct correlation.

Please go back and read my magic.

And please stop belittling my ideas with your biased mindsets. Just because Dracula doesn't say 'I'm Shiva me.' Doesn't mean there isn't reason to believe he is.

Stop being so adamant and think. CIA pimps turn me on!

Also. Shiva contains HIV. A disease associtaed with blood and infection.

I am magic.

C.I.A pimps???? Why? Because, people obviously more knowledgeable than you regarding Hinduism and it's god Shiva are telling you where you made errors in your thought process??

Albie are you a Hindu? Have you read the actual Hindu scriptures? Have you ever listen to or perform a Shiva puja?

And why haven't you address the possibility that Kali is really the blood drinking god you're looking, is it because she's a woman?

I'm not even going to address the HIV bit


[edit on 9-14-2006 by worldwatcher]

You have no imagination. No one here has actually tried to see my view. As soon as they read the title they were screwing it up and aiming it at the bin.

Mindless.


CIA pimps.

Shiva is a god that is awakening from a simple life into a more complex one full of passions.

Dracula does the same.

Shiva is a god who castrated himself.

Like Attis. Who was driven mad by Cybele. Who is associated with Demeter.

The name of the ship that carried Dracula to England was DEMETER.

YOU HAVEN'T THE IMAGINATION.

You sit there nit picking. Because Dracula hasn't got four arms and the Ganges flowing through his hair then there can't be anything in it?

Rubbish.

Veiled messages have to be fragmented and messed with. That's the whole point.

And I've not seen one point made that even manages to spoil my theory.

Please show me where you did this.

Originally posted by count shivula
1) The tibetean people had an equivalent god to shiva that also had tantric practices attached to him - these two god forms were combined because of their similarities although they are different traditions and gods entrirely. The result of this was the lighter skinned one was more fashionable in a caste and race based society and so started to gain strength.

I was so going to say something along those lines...except I waas going to be obnoxious, like: "the hindus wish they were white" but enh...it's just the culture. I've got friends in southern India, and they are about as black as they come. Catholic, too.

It reminds me of prayer found in some wician handbook:

Lovely powerful Shiva,
God of sweeping change,
sweep away the lesser,
shout it out of range,
leave the beauty and the light,
bright clean and fair,
remove all traces of doubt,
darkness and despiar....

gagh, that's all I remember of it. It's under the thought that if he's in control of rebirth and death, that he'd be in control of the situations that are about as drasitc, I guess.

I'm beginning to tire of the CIA pimp comment You come to a discussion board and post this thread because you want to discuss your theory, however now that it is being discussed and lucky you...by people who actually know the Hindu panthenon of Gods and religions, you refuse to even listen or acknowledge the points being made.

I'm beginning to think you have a little too much imagination.

Once again, as a Hindu, as someone who has asked these questions of her hindu clerics, as someone who read extensively Hindu Mythology, I ask again WHY ARE YOU DISREGARDING KALI?

Source

The most famous Indian deity associated with blood drinking is Kali, who has fangs, wears a garland of corpses or skulls and has four arms. Her temples are near the cremation grounds. She and the goddess Durga battled the demon Raktabija who could reproduce himself from each drop of blood spilled. Kali drank all his blood so none was spilled, thereby winning the battle and killing Raktabija.

Vampires are known in India as brahmapustras..... do you see Shiva in that name? NO you see Brahma...maybe you ought to look at that connection. Have you read Vikram and Baital?

Oh how about the goddess TARA??? Have you even researched her?

Source
Like Kali, furthermore, Tara in her Hindu context enjoys blood. In her hymn of a hundred names from the Mundamala-tantra, she is called She Who Likes Blood, She Who Is Smeared with Blood, and She Who Enjoys Blood Sacrifice. The Tara-tantra describes Tara's delight in both animal and human blood but says that the latter is more pleasing to her. The blood of devotees is to be taken from specified parts of the body, such as the forehead, hands, breasts, head, or area between the eyebrows; some of these areas may correspond to the different chakras, spiritual centers within the body.

The worship of these goddesses usually entails blood sacrifices, there is no blood sacrifice in Shiva worship. You say I have no imagination, I say you are blind to facts.

[edit on 9-15-2006 by worldwatcher]

I keep hearing that Kali is often depicted naked with Maya, but I'm stumped to find a single depiction of what I might imagine to be a somewhat twisted but hot scene.

Any help?

Or maybe Tara and Kali and Maya is an almightly threesome. Heavens above...

What Would Dracula Do?

Originally posted by albie
You have no imagination. No one here has actually tried to see my view. As soon as they read the title they were screwing it up and aiming it at the bin.

Mindless.

CIA pimps.

You are free to believe and hold whatever opinions you want, but these comments about other members must stop.

Please see: Courtesy Is Mandatory

ATS is a very open discussion environment -- we don't tell people what to think. In exchange for that, however, we do require courtesy.

Thanks in advance for your understanding and cooperation.

Look Shiva is not awakening from a simple life into a 'complex life full of passions' this is THE ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of Shiva. Shiva is a being that is supposed to be the mahayogi - the perfect yoga practitioner who is free from the bindings and compulsions of any passion. This is the entire point why he burns up the god of love (as you said earlier) - because his state of perfect meditation is disturbed and passion overcomes him for a brief second, which causes him to destroy the god.

Compare this to dracula who is obviously in a state of enslavement to his passion (which is one of the central themes of the character through the compulsive blood drinking, etc) and you have absolute polar opposites, one a master of self one a slave of self. How the hell did you manage to put the two together? I dont understand your reasoning and you have not made it clear other than huge leaps and gaps in logic and desperate attempts to glue your theory together through name dropping completely unrelated gods whose name randomly crops up in the novel.
your theory has more holes in it than minas neck. What are you actually basing it on?

and lol@ CIA pimps - what you think maybe i am a white western plant of the secret cabal of dreadlocked renunciate black shaivites that secretly control the worlds banks?

also the "HIV = shiva" idea is seriously scraping the bottom of the barrel. As was the "moon on head - dracula is a night person" theory earlier on.

You seem to have just arrived at the idea shiva = dracula conclusion without any evidence, and without a deep understanding of at least one of the mythical forms you are trying to draw comparisons to (shiva). You have drawn a conclusion and instead of even considering evidence to the contrary you have desperately clutched to your unsupported assumption using whatever half baked metaphor you possibly can to try and brush over without addressing the valid points made to you by people who have opposing views to yours.

Originally posted by count shivula
Look Shiva is not awakening from a simple life into a 'complex life full of passions' this is THE ABSOLUTE OPPOSITE of Shiva. Shiva is a being that is supposed to be the mahayogi - the perfect yoga practitioner who is free from the bindings and compulsions of any passion. This is the entire point why he burns up the god of love (as you said earlier) - because his state of perfect meditation is disturbed and passion overcomes him for a brief second, which causes him to destroy the god.

Compare this to dracula who is obviously in a state of enslavement to his passion (which is one of the central themes of the character through the compulsive blood drinking, etc) and you have absolute polar opposites, one a master of self one a slave of self. How the hell did you manage to put the two together? I dont understand your reasoning and you have not made it clear other than huge leaps and gaps in logic and desperate attempts to glue your theory together through name dropping completely unrelated gods whose name randomly crops up in the novel.
your theory has more holes in it than minas neck. What are you actually basing it on?

I'm talking about the time the flower was shot into him to make him keen on Parvati. Compared with Dracula moving from a castle on a lonely mountain top to London. Parallels.

As for me being a bit rude. Look at the first answer to my post and see how condesceding it seems.


I don't mind people debating my points but do they have to suggest I go off and read some more? It's how he says it. Which is totally missing the point of this phenomena.

you made a number of claims that made it sound like you have no idea about shaivite theology (white skin, lord of death, represents the moon etc) so i called you on it. Apologies if you found it condescending but your theory has more holes than a chainmail shirt. so far the parralells i see are

both characters get attracted to a woman (which we see in practically every mythical story since time began)

one lives on a hill, one lives on a mountain (not really a notable parallel considering where these stories are based you couldnt find a flat bit of land if you tried)

the ganesh = renfield thing just does not work, and using the picture from the film to back it up is ridiculous.

the white skin thing is not true - research shivas origins, the story of Bhaivara or read the Rig Veda

dracula is led by his passions, shiva overcomes and rules them so that comparison doesnt work either because the behaviours are opposite.

your drinking snakes poison to save the world = bitten by vampire is a big metaphorical jump to make

the HIV comparison is a joke, HIV is an abbreviation if he was called Shumanimmunitydeficiencyva you would have a point.

the representation of the moon is not a good comparison, he is closer to the sun.

the cybil attis demeter thing is taking this to a whole new level of clutching at straws.

Descent And Condescent

Originally posted by albie
As for me being a bit rude. Look at the first answer to my post and see how condesceding it seems.

I just did, and I think "condescending" is in the eye of the beholder in this case.

But even if another member's behavior were completely out of line, that doesn't give you a license to take off-topic potshots and violate the T&C.

So I'm asking you -- personally, directly -- to please be courteous.

If you do that and someone else decides to be obnoxious, don't worry.

I'll be here.




P.S. And with that, my own off-topic comments in this thread must end. I apologize for the digression.

And now back to...

Shiva = Dracula

Bull.

Shiva has been forced through the framework of Dracula like lard through a hockey mask.

And you complain that it doesn't look like Shiva anymore.

I think you are jealous you didn't spot it. That's it. You, a self proclaimed expert on Shiva didn't spot it. I did. With my Bumper book of Gods ages 4 upwards.


Jealous.

you are a tragi-comic figure. Why the hell would i be jealous of what i feel is a delusion? you have arrived at an answer without having any evidence outside of your own mind, and are tying to play join the dots using any half-assed imaginary connection you can make in a narcissistic attempt to desperately stop the reality that your theory has no leg to stand on.

You buried this theory by yourself when you said shiva is related to hiv because of the letters in it. Or before that with the demeter thing, or even before that with 'draculas a night person shiva has a moon symbol on his head'. I am sure it is you that just posted the 'princess diana killed by dracula' topic as well because you both have the same sort of evidence and seeming need to insert dracula into something that he just doesnt belong in.

I just watched Blade 3. The film. And I have a question. I know this is a bit off subject but would like to try and get some answers. This seems to be the place to come to get answers so here goes:

They claim, in the film, that he has lived for thousands of years and has existed since the times of the ancient Sumerians. They also claim that the Babylonians had known him as Dagon. I have been unable to find any references to Dagon bearing any resemblance to a vampire figure.

In my breif google searches I have found that according to some scholars Dagon was a grain and fertility god to the babylonians. A god of agriculture.

Other, slightly more credible, scholars believe he was half fish and half man. Perhaps a god to sailors. This is the website I found most useful and mildly amusing:

www.aryan-nations.org...

Although the fish like skin sounds pretty cool, this doesn't seem to be very Vampire like to me. I couldn't seem to find any references that were remotely dracula/vampire like.

Has anybody got a clue as to how the Dagon=Dracula connection came about?

Dagon= grain, fertility

Demeter = grain. fertility

Demeter is the name of the ship that brought Dracula to england.

Demeter's daughter was stolen by Hades, god of the underworld.

Dracula is surely a god of the underworld and steals women.

But I think H. P Lovecraft might have your answer.

I think you also need to remember that Dracula was based on Vlad Dracul, a real figure and a man who who would not have ended up in the Top Ten list of benevolent rulers in Transylvania. The man was into impaling people alive.
I actually have a bottle of rather lethal Transylvanian 'Vlad Dracul' plum brandy somewhere. (Shudder)

I think we are all aware of that particular mustached wankpiss.