Originally posted by Apass
And what this has got to do with circular reasoning? (about "it's done by hand" see below)
Your argument is based on the premise that they are not lying because they were caught. How can you suggest that what they say must be true because we
would not catch them in a lie" Is your argument that we ( presumably people like me?) are too stupid to discover them lying?
Well...like I already said...
If NASA is spending alot of money to cover up things...don't you think that they have more complex image processing softwares than
Well according to evidence based on observation apparently they do not? Why are we supposed to assume that a cover up must be perfect and done with
the best technology at the time by the smartest individuals who knew very well how to do their jobs? I am surprised that you assign these great powers
to mere humans who just happen to be working against progress and apparently not always willingly so.
Did I say they are superhumans? And if there is no perfect conspiracy then why the need for one?
You allured to the fact that it's not a conspiracy because we caught them at it. In your mind a conspiracy is apparently something too elaborate to
be exposed by anyone you run into on the Internet... There are no perfect conspiracy as they always involve humans and humans are fallible even when
they have a huge stake in taking part in whatever given conspiracy.
How would NASA look like when "the conspiracy" is finally revealed (by independent space agencies)?
Your arguments here is basically that all people in jail are innocent because how on earth would any criminal be stupid enough to get caught at a
crime? Why do you assume that the same people will still be working for NASA or that they planned to maintain the conspiracy forever? Why assume that
it was not a directive they received from higher up that they had to deal with whatever the cost to their future credibility?
Isn't it plausible that an expensive software used for stiching and "detection of anomalies" would highlight the anomalous areas for further
I really have no idea how they are doing it but it would make sense that there is a great deal of automation as keeping this thing quite after hiring
a few dozen or hundred people, to do it by hand, would make harder to keep under wraps if that was in fact the intent of everyone in the organization.
I am NOT suggesting that i know all the In's and outs but simply that we can now observe with some regularity extensive image tampering for some
reason or another; for all i know they could simply by tampering with large fields of rocks for their own pleasure. They could for all i know be
tampering with the images to create the illusion that there are buildings, structures, life and running water on Mars for some purpose i do not yet
comprehend. Once again i am not suggesting that i have many or any answers but that i have plenty of well supported questions based on the
observations i and many others have made.
What if not all the detection are anomalies? Then a human opertor will have to select from the alarms only those that are anomalies...so if you
have a human operator... is it hard to go further and assume that the human operator also handles the anomalies?
If the program does not warn the operator a area might not be selected for correction but even if warned the human involved might still fail to
properly cover it up for a variety of reason; i am certainly considering the possibility that they want these anomalies to be found in the short or
Did that happen? I repeat: I used a crater form the same frame because it was easier for me to do that.
It would also be easier for them to do that as that would always later be easier to explain away as some kind of 'software rendering/stitching
problem' they failed to see in the 'peer review' process...
Had I copied a crater from another frame, merka wouldn't have spoted it! But if NASA is airbrushing the photos, of course they would not do
that (and the fact that it was never discovered can support this point (assuming that NASA is airbrushing things))
It would be extremely hard to discover such unless images were taken of the same general area with only one or a few of the lot being altered. We do
have examples of that so it can not be argued that this has not been observed.
Then why bother airbrushing them?
Because it's what they were ordered to do? I am sure you have worked for someone and been told to do something against your will? Did you do a
awesome job of it or did you just slap something together haphazardly to avoid punishment? I am not suggesting that i understand the processes
involved in this scam but only that i can see things that does not make sense once one investigates the issues in question.
Well....I'm not calling the one who raises questions crazy or deluded. I kindly ask him to provide evidence for his claims.
That is what you do but how is it fair if you never give it due considering by simple parroting the 'other possibilities' that is rarely defined or
proven to be in fact possible on Mars? Why disagree based on the premise that whoever objects may very well be wrong, somehow? Do you not think that i
understand the inherent danger of questioning what so many believe and that i did not consider the odds for and against based on various strains of
evidence? All you basically do is consider each anomaly separately and then find another way ( however unlikely or unsupported; which does not mean
it's not true obviously) of dismissing it never taking the global picture and considering each of these observations as part of a new data set
towards proving something very different. If you atomize the big picture you might very well end up parts that does not provide much proof of anything
but what would be the logic behind such action?
If all he can provide are some pictures with communication glitches or some blured (read low res) areas , then sorry, I'm not going to believe
And luckily we live in countries where people have the right to believe whatever they want so i will not impose what i believe to reality on you. That
being said where is the evidence that communication glitches or low res areas are possible using the science equipment in action here? Where is the
evidence that data can not be resent from the satellite when there were communication problems? Where is the evidence that blurred areas are 'low res
and how does a camera have low res zones that keeps shifting from one picture to the next? While what you say may enter your mind as possible solution
why did it and what evidence do you have that suggested such explanations to you? One should always consider the reality that bias is subconscious and
that it will create obstacles that evaporates on closer conscious inspection.
Yes...but in 50 years (lets hope) when space will be affordable, how would NASA look like?
Well the current workers there will likely all be dead so what problem would that be for them? Pinochet actually ordered people killed but old age
seemed to have served as good defense for that.... How did the people involved in the S/L scam look? Do you even know the names of the main players in
possibly the largest financial scam in human history? Who do you remember from Iran-Contra? Did you remember who ordered the completely illegal
bombing of Laos which resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands and how many bomber commanders knowingly falsified their logs on orders?
I could go on for a few dozen pages but i do not think you will accept the reality that people in power lie full well knowing that their criminal
activity ( even the murder of millions) will eventually , and probably in the lifetimes, be exposed. With so much power and friends in right places it
does not really matter who knows as they simply do not have the power to take revenge or prosecute you for your crimes. You argument is entirely based
on ignorance of history and the workings of those who really , for the most part anyways, control the world.
And who will fabricate the information? If there is no hint about conspiracy...why would someone think of that and then "fabricate" evidence
Because deep down ( not very deep imo) people realise that they are being lied to on at least a few levels when it comes to what their governments
tells them and knowing that they in their average ignorant state ( of the workings of power and reality) try to expose such by use of their normally
not so ample means.... This is why we have consumer societies were distractions are waiting for you at every corner no matter your intellectual
prowess they will provide ample material or distraction from what they consider harmful to their larger plans.
Do you realise that the ATS forum in it's entirety might one day just vanish into thin air due to some kind of database failure with backups just
not 'in order' so that they could be used to reconstruct? How many millions of hours of work and thought went into this *thing* that is not at all
tangible? I do not think you really understand the workings or trappings of power and how they have undermined the contributions ( to humanity) of the
intellectual elite of this planet. You are educated ( university , schooling etc) to know only what they want you to know and they must watch with
glee to see how you and so many of your fellow converts spread and defend the received gospel you derive your self worth, dignity and standing from.
The few can control the many if so many of the many willing subjugate themselves to dogma and it's defense understanding only enough to realise what
benefits it holds to themselves.