Why any Aliens must be hostile

Just a note regarding the fermi paradox. I pick up on this because you use this for the basis to clarify how you draw the conclusions in the post.

I also believe that Stephen Hawking may be a supporter of the Fermi Paradox, I seem to remember coming across his parting of the same opinion when reading his work.

However, it seems beyond me that we would assume to know WHY they would be here. The universe COULD be absolutely teeming with life, and probably is. The Fermi paradox ASSUMES that should aliens have got here one way or another that we would know about it. Why?

The fermi paradox operates within a very narrow band of reasoning and dismisses as many posssibilities as it covers.

There is a second reason why I believe the fermi paradox is rubbish - aliens are here and we do know about it. We, as a species, know an infinite amount less than nothing about the big picture. 50% of the worlds population will have to drop (or adapt) their religion before they start waking up. Until then, just keep walking with your eyes shut, none of it makes any difference.

Originally posted by Shamanator

Why? Humans visited the moon in person, and we only send probes to other planets because we can't survive the conditions or we don't have the means to go there in person.

The fact is if Aliens wanted to just study us they would do it the same way we study animals with hidden cameras so as not to disturb their behaviour.
It makes perfect sense.

When the aliens were probing me I could feel the device opening and closing inside me as if it was trying to grab something. I asked the alien what he was trying to grab and he said "Lense" --"Camera"

So obviously they do use hidden cameras to study us. Strange butt true

[edit on 11-9-2006 by probedbygrays]

Tiloke,
You did'ny just say you're ignoring him;
this is waht I was refering to.

Jesus Shamanator, what the hell man? How many threads are you going to make where you have to spout your misguided beliefs as undeniable fact? This is getting ridiculous.

And I don't care what some little boy has to say about god or aliens, especially after he called me a alcoholic drug addict.

Calling him a "little boy" can be sonstrued as an insult, I don't see as as
such, I'm just saying.

And I realise he states some unsavoury things, that well are not true.
Don't tak it so personally, I've seen UFOs before, I participated in his
"UFOPs don't exist" thread, and by default was classed a s such.

First of all, the Fermi Paradox uses fallacious logic. It makes assumptions about a completely unknown variable (i.e. ET motivations) and then runs with it. It basically states, "man is sentient. man craves colonization. aliens are sentient. therefore aliens crave colonization". this is the same as saying, "all fathers are men. if you are a man, then you are a father." It isn't a valid statement, or a valid paradox.

1: If an Alien race advanced enough to become intelligent it is quite safe to assume they are a Predatory species (after all how much brainpower is needed to sneak up on a carrot?).
I think the most likely scenario for a dominating species has to be a top of the food chain predator almost certainly a pack hunter to evolve the needed inteligence.

No, it doesn't take brains to sneak up on a carrot. However, it does take brains to know how to plant them, cultivate them, rotate crops, etc. Agriculture, not hunting, is the key factor that led to our development of civilization.

2: What motives would they have to actually cross the vastness of lightyears to come here to a less advanced race well given that nothing on earth is special, apart from maybe the meat (us).
Best case scenario is they only want some resource we have but to cross so much space using so much energy to get here It's unlikely they just want to observe or say Hi

Don't WE send probes out into the stars saying "hello! here we are!"??? Why is it so out there to assume they do likewise?

3: Look at our own technological History the vast majority of our technology only came about because we wanted to kill each other. Without our aggression we might still be in caves.
It seem's reasonable that any technological species would by default be warlike.

Actually, from our own history, we've seen that as technology advances, war becomes less of an issue. As the world gets smaller, economics takes over. You don't war with your customers, if you can help it. We certainly have less war now than we did in many past eras, and such conflicts are far more localized...

4: Again our own History, just read about anytime at all a more advanced civilization discovered a less advanced one, slavery, Genocide, Exploitation not to mention the Virus epidemics.

That's a pretty broad brush, and only really applies to our past, not the present. We still encounter ancient peoples, but these are now more often learning experiences, not slaughterfests. Again, as technology makes the world smaller, we see less and less of this.

That's all I have for now but should we should be worried about all the radio signals we are sending mindlessly into space.

Not really. We've been beaming radio for what, around 100 years? How long do you think it will still be around? Let's just be generous and say another 100. So, for 200 years, we use radio. Now, it likely takes thousands of years to reach the next civilized world...on a good case scenario. That means that when the signals arrive, a) somebody has to spot them, b) the culture must still use radio waves in some capacity, and c) they have to be a strong enough signal to still be coherent. That is an awful lot of what ifs...which is why SETI has been so unsuccessful. But still, there's always a shot, and SOMEBODY wins the lotto, no matter what the odds...

The odd's are we will never encounter any race as advanced as ourselves but maybe many should reconsider their wishfull thinking about wanting Aliens here.

So far, their reported actions show more about motives than any paradox or supposition. Desire for secrecy, evasion, interest in military facilities, abducting citizens, etc. Not exactly the actions of "friends"....so I'd agree with this idea.

All Aliens if they exist and our more advanced than us should be treated as Hostile.

That may be a bit far, as if they wanted conquest, and had FTL capability, I'm sure we'd be food or slaves by now....but keeping one's guard up....yeah, I'd be all for that.

A nasty thought has occured to me considering all of this what if we were actually seeded as a a farm and their just waiting on the numbers to grow until its worth the effort of harvesting. If they truely have been around for millions of years more than us we could be the intergalactic version of a Field.

It would probably be possible if a race was advanced enough to just seed any likely planets that may be able to support life. Of course the first flaw that comes to mind is the time it would take but then again we dont know if they would view time quite the same.

Ok far fetched I know especially considering my stance on them never visiting here I'm just considering a what if scenerio.

I would still like to see earth get its act together technologically though just in case.

Going back to my original threads train of thought with the fermi paradox there is one thing that occurs to me might be a solution to it if there was in fact a lot of advanced civilizations. The lack of evidence might suggest they are hiding and the universe is a very dangerous place. The intresting or perhaps worrying thought is what or who exactly are they hiding from?

I know it's probably almost looking like I am reversing my stances but I still hold the original views from my first post.

Just playing with ideas and what motivations they might have.

It could be that theres something like the Vulcan hypothesis.

That is, they're waiting for us to advance to a ceertain technologic
or social point before revealing themselves.

They could use different communications methods to, sub-space/hyperspace
or entanglement on the more exotic side, or they may use confined m/lasers, simply because over longer distances it would hold more info and stay more
intact than radio.