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One Or Two Gospels In The New Testament?

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posted on Sep, 10 2006 @ 10:42 AM
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Greetings:

The greatest conspiracy in all of Scripture surrounds the existence of two gospel messages in your New Testament. The major Denominations have blended the two gospels together to create a ‘manmade’ gospel that God sent to NOBODY. John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve preached Gospel #1 below, while Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, etc.) is Gospel #2 totally separate from the “gospel of the kingdom.”

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This is NOT our gospel for today. Nobody has been saved by this Gospel message for almost 2000 years.
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I. Gospel of the Kingdom (Matthew 4:23 , Matthew 9:35, Matthew 24:14, Acts 8:12). Gospel to the Circumcised. Galatians 2:7.

1. The good news that the ‘kingdom of heaven’ is ‘at hand’ (Matthew 3:2, Matthew 4:17, Matthew 10:7). i.e., ‘preaching the kingdom.’ Acts 20:25.
2. According to Prophecy; seen by the OT Prophets. Isaiah 40:3, Malachi 3:1.
3. Obtain eternal life by keeping the commandments. Matthew 19:16-17.
4. Water baptism (during confession) for the ‘forgiveness of sins.’ Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38. (John’s Baptism; Acts 19:3; name of the Father; John 1:6, 33, Matthew 28:19.)
5. Baptism in the ‘name of the Lord Jesus’ (Acts 8:16, Acts 19:5), ‘name of the Son’ (Matthew 28:19)
6. Receive the Spirit through the baptism in the ‘name of the Holy Spirit’ (Matthew 28:19) through the laying of hands (Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6).
7. Justified by ‘works and not by faith alone.’ James 2:20-24.
8. Kingdom disciples are under Mosaic Law (Matthew 5:18, James 2:10).

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This is our gospel for today that many believe is the ‘only’ gospel of the New Testament with inclusions from Gospel #1. This gospel message was revealed to Paul (Gal. 1:11+12) AFTER his conversion in Acts 9. Note that Christ preached the ‘gospel of God’ in Mark 1:14-15, which is gospel #1 above.
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II. Paul’s “my gospel” (Romans 2:16, Romans 16:25, etc.). Gospel to the Uncircumcised. Galatians 2:7.

1. The gospel of the grace of God. Acts 20:24.
2. According to the revelation of the Mystery; NOT seen by the OT prophets. Romans 16:25.
3. Saved by God’s grace through faith APART from works. Ephesians 2:8-9.
4. Sins forgiven through the redemption IN Christ (Romans 3:24) and His shed blood (Ephesians 1:7).
5. Our ‘one baptism’ (Ephesians 4:5) is done by the ‘one Spirit’ (Ephesians 4:4) into the ‘one body’ (1 Corinthians 12:13), which is into “Christ’s body.” 1 Corinthians 12:27.
6. We receive the Spirit when hearing (Rom. 10:17*) and believing (Ephesians 1:13-14) Paul’s Gospel by ‘hearing with faith*.’ Galatians 3:2.
7. We are justified by faith apart from works. Romans 4:4-6.
8. We are under grace and not under law. Romans 6:14.
-----------------------

Do you see just one gospel in the New Testament or these two gospel messages being totally separate?

In Christ Jesus via Gospel #2,

Terral




posted on Sep, 12 2006 @ 07:51 AM
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of the cannocial gospels the ramblings of paul are the older. The "Acts" being 5-10 years
earlier than the synoptic gospels. The so called synoptic gospels ( Matt. Mark. Luke)
All derive from the same source and have a definite pauline flavor.

The gospel attributed to John is of a definitely different style and content, showing none of the pollution of pauline influence.

It was saul the killer of jews that preached a new religion not R Jeshua bar Josef.



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 05:36 AM
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Hi StalkingWolf:

Wolf >> of the cannocial gospels the ramblings of paul are the older. The "Acts" being 5-10 years earlier than the synoptic gospels.

Please read the Opening Post (OP) again, because this topic concerns itself with the ‘two gospels’ of the New Testament through which sins have been forgiven and believers receive the Holy Spirit. You are confusing gospel ‘accounts’ or ‘Epistles’ with ‘good news’ (gospel = ‘euaggelion’ #2098) messages contained by the Scriptures. Gospel #1 of the OP was preached by John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve for years BEFORE Christ died for anyone. Gospel #2 is what Paul calls “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16) that is “according to the revelation of the mystery.” Romans 16:25. The ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, etc. = Gospel #1) is God’s ‘good news’ of WATER marked by ‘water baptism’ for the forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38). Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message (1Cor. 15:1-4) we preach today is God’s ‘good news’ of BLOOD marked by our forgiveness through Christ’s shed blood (Eph. 1:7). Scripture teaches that Christ came IN BOTH (1John 5:6).

Wolf >> The so called synoptic gospels ( Matt. Mark. Luke). All derive from the same source and have a definite pauline flavor.

Heh . . . Pauline flavor? Please . . . Paul teaches that believers in his gospel message are under grace and NOT under law (Romans 6:14). Christ teaches that Israel and kingdom ‘bride’ (John 3:29) members are under the Law, until heaven and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17-19). Paul teaches that believers today are saved by God’s grace through faith apart from works. Ephesians 2:8+9. Christ in the Four Gospels teaches that Israel obtains eternal life by keeping the commandments. Matthew 19:16+17. Paul teaches that even the Sabbath is a mere ‘shadow’ of things to come (Col. 2:16+17), saying our meeting together is “NOT” to eat the Lord’s Supper (1Cor. 11:20). Christ teaches kingdom disciples (Peter, John, James, etc.) to do those things “in remembrance of Me.” Luke 22:19. Paul professes to be the ‘apostle of Gentiles’ (Romans 11:13), while Christ says the opposite,

“But He answered and said, "I was sent ONLY to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24.

Paul is not even converted on the road to Damascus, until after the start of Acts 9. He uses the terms ‘faith’ and ‘grace’ together in eleven verses of his thirteen Epistles to Gentiles. How many verses are these key terms used together in the Four Gospels and all the Epistles of Peter, John and James combined? ZERO! Paul uses the term “justification” to the Romans three times. How many times in all the Four Gospels? ZERO. Paul uses the term “mystery” twenty times with half of those uses in his Epistles to the Ephesians (6) and Colossians (4). Peter, John and James never use the term once in any Epistle bearing their name. Peter sums up the folly of your hypothesis here, saying,

“Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the [b/wisdom given him, wrote to you,
as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.” 2Peter 3:14-16.

What is this “wisdom given him” the untaught and unstable continue distorting in our day to ‘their own destruction?’ God’s Hidden Wisdom (1Cor. 2:6+7) was given to Paul by God through what he calls “The Mystery,”

In Christ Jesus,

Terral (End Part 1)



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 05:38 AM
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Hi again Wolf:

. . . .

“For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles -- if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of God's grace which was given to me for you; that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.” Ephesians 3:1-3.

With a little bit of common sense and deduction, you can come to realize that this “wisdom given him” remained “hidden in God” (Eph. 3:9), until the time was right for this secret body of knowledge to be ‘revealed’ to believers through the Epistles of the Apostle Paul. This information is NOT revealed anywhere in the Four Gospels or Acts or in any of the Kingdom Epistles from the Kingdom Apostles (Peter, John, James, etc.). For you to even intimate that the Four Gospels have a Pauline flavor is preposterous and based upon no Bible knowledge at all . . .

Wolf >> The gospel attributed to John is of a definitely different style and content, showing none of the pollution of pauline influence. It was saul the killer of jews that preached a new religion not R Jeshua bar Josef.


Heh . . . “pollution of Pauline influence”?? Perhaps my label of ‘preposterous’ is an understatement. Every syllable from every verse of the sixty-six books of Scripture is “God breathed” (2Tim. 3:16-17), “Living AND Active” (Heb. 4:12). God is speaking through Paul in the same way He speaks through Moses, Malachi, Peter and every other author in God’s Living Word. “Pollution” better characterizes your unsupported opinions on this topic. Jesus Christ is the “Son OF GOD” (John 1:34).

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral


[edit on 13-9-2006 by Terral]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 08:52 AM
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Terral, one of the great things about MY beliefs is that I have no need to convert you.
No need to chang your beliefs to mine. You indeed have every right to believe anything you want. As long as you do not attempt to force those beliefs on anyone else.

Now as to the Biblical writings being "God Breathed" I submit the following.

" The Bible did not arrive by FAX from Heaven. It was written BY men FOR men."

And,

Dear Children (and believe us, that's all of you), We consider ourselves pretty patient folks. For instance, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right
We've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes.

We want to let you know about some of the things that are starting to tick Us off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Us up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight: These are YOUR religions, not Ours. We're beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims there is only one of Us (which by the way, is absolutely true). And each claims its scriptures were written personally by us, and that all the other scriptures are man-made. How do We even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now. We're your Father AND Mother, and We don't play favorites among Our children.

Also, We hate to break it to you, but We don't write. Our longhand is awful, and We've always been more of "doers" anyway. So, ALL of your books, including those Bibles, were written by men and women. They were inspired, remarkable people, but they also made mistakes here and there. We made sure of that so that you would never trust a written word more than your own living heart.
You see, one human being to Us, even a bum on the street, is worth more than all the Holy Books in the world. That's just the kind of folks we are. Our spirit is not a historical thing. It's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.
.
Holy books and religious rites are sacred and powerful, but not more so than the least of you. They were only meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Us.

Which brings Us to Our next point about your nonsense; you act like We need you and your religions to stick up for Us or "win souls" for Our sake. Please, don't do Us any favors. We can stand quite well on our own, thank you. We don't need you to defend Us, and We don't need constant credit. We just want you to be good to each other.

The thing is, We want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Us.
The true purpose of your religion is so that YOU can become more aware of Us, not the other way around. Believe Us, We know you already. We know what's in each of your hearts, and We love you with no strings attached.
Lighten up and enjoy Us. That's what religion is best for.

What you seem to forget is how mysterious We are.
You look at the petty differences in your Scriptures and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out Our Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature, which by the way, you NEVER will, why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions.
You know what We're talking about. Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing. Take courage and be of good cheer, for We are always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear Our still, small voice. (We don't like to shout).

Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness, for you are Our Own Children. Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't.

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated? It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And We're very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think We care whether you call Us: Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Diana, Wakantonka, Brahma, Cerridwen, Father, Mother, God, Goddess or even the Void of Nirvana? Do you think We care which of Our special children you feel closest to, Jesus, Mary, Buddha, Krishna, Gerald, Mohammed or any of the others? You can call Us and Our Special Ones any name you choose, if only you would go about Our business of loving one another as We love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

We're not telling you to abandon your religions. Enjoy your religions, honor them, and learn from them, just as you should enjoy, honor, and learn from your parents.
Know that Our Special Children, the ones that your religions revolve around, all live in the same place, (Our heart), and they get along perfectly, We assure you.

The clergy must stop creating a myth of sibling rivalry where there is none. Our blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, telephones, fax machines, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns.
Get with the program! If you really want to help, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor. We've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving and laughing together.

We're not really ticked off. We just wanted to grab your attention because We hate to see you suffer.

In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust,

Us



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Hi Wolf:

Wolf >> Terral, one of the great things about MY beliefs is that I have no need to convert you.

Heh . . . That is because you have absolutely nothing to offer beyond your unbelief . . .

Wolf >> No need to chang your beliefs to mine. You indeed have every right to believe anything you want. As long as you do not attempt to force those beliefs on anyone else.

Please hit the ‘ignore’ button and waste your time writing to somebody else. My writing is directed at ‘believers’ and nobody is forcing anything on anybody . . .

Thank you and GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 01:01 PM
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posted by Terral

Greetings: The greatest conspiracy in all of Scripture surrounds the existence of two gospel messages in your New Testament. The major denominations have blended the two gospels together to create a ‘man-made’ gospel that God sent to NOBODY. John the Baptist, Christ and the Twelve preached Gospel #1 below, while Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16, etc.) is Gospel #2 totally separate from the “gospel of the kingdom.” Terral [Edited by Don W]


21st century Christians are stuck in the mud of time. If they offer scientific explanations for the 10 plagues of Egypt, they deny faith. If they claim the story is literal and true, they deny 3,000 years of learning. So what to do? Compartmentalize. Monday through Saturday, science, Sunday, theology.

Just imagine the world today if some translator long ago had named Genesis “Origins of the Hebrew People” instead? There are 3 origins in Genesis. 1) Mesopotamia, the Garden of Eden. Two versions. 2) Nineveh, Noah and the Great Flood. 3) Moses, and the “out of Egypt” story. Hey, Egypt was the creme de la creme of all countries and I understand why everyone who was anyone would want to have Egypt in his or her background.

It always piqued my curiosity when I heard my Protestant church advocate that the entire Bible was the inspired word of God. Including Ruth, Esther and Revelations. Then I learned Jewish scholars - of which there is a remarkable abundance - held only the Torah or Pentateuch as we called it, was written by God, the remainder of the Hebrew Bible is revered for its age, but it was not divinely written. So how come the Jews, who wrote it, said it was not, yet unlearned Christians who didn't said it was?

To carry that argument one step further, think how many people needlessly died at the state because of the vagaries of translators of 2 Timothy , 3:16. Here’s a sample:
KJV: “All scripture is given by inspiration of God . . “
A unyielding command that trucks of no disagreement! It is upon this declarative statement that religious institutions are founded.

OTOH, if the following had been the words chosen by the translators or interpreters:
ASV: Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching . . “ A truism. We could have been spared the religious wars of the 16th and 17th centuries.

“Every scripture [that is] inpired of God” versus “All scripture is given by inspiraton of God” are the operative words in these examples. One translation is as good as the other. If you want to be an “All” person, you have a lot of baggage to carry. If you want to be an “Every” person, then you can pick and choose. Tolerance and mutual respect are the products of this way of seeing it.



[edit on 9/13/2006 by donwhite]



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 04:12 PM
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Terral, are you saying that there is a conspiracy involved in adding the message in Paul's Gospel to that of the message of Jesus et al?

Also, I am confused, what are you using to distinguish between the two gospels? How do you know the original message?



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:25 PM
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Hi Nygdan:

Nygdan >> Terral, are you saying that there is a conspiracy involved in adding the message in Paul's Gospel to that of the message of Jesus et al?

Yes. The Denominations are mixing the doctrinal elements of Gospel #1 (gospel of the kingdom) and Gospel #2 (Paul’s gospel) to create every form of false gospel that God sent to NOBODY. Satan’s ‘servants of righteousness’ (2Corinthians 11:15) are deceived AND they are going out to deceive “you” also.

Nygdan >> Also, I am confused, what are you using to distinguish between the two gospels?

I am using the elemental precepts teaching BOTH ‘doctrines of salvation’ for the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, etc.) and Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel messages. Please allow me to carry you through a little demonstration. Let’s walk in Christ’s sandals and bear witness to His preaching to open His ministry. What does Scripture say?

“Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee*, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." Mark 1:14-15.

Mark uses the phrase “kingdom of God is at hand,” while Matthew presents things this way:

“From that time Jesus began to preach and say, "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" . . . Jesus was going throughout all Galilee*, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people.” Matthew 4:17+23.

Note very carefully that both of the synoptic accounts show Christ ‘preaching’ this “gospel of the kingdom” in Galilee*. Israel was to become the “kingdom of priests” (Ex. 19:6) through obedience to the ‘gospel of the kingdom,’ which includes the doctrinal elements of Gospel #1 from the Opening Post. Do we see anyone with sins forgiven through the redemption that is in Christ (Rom. 3:24) and His shed blood (Eph. 1:7) here in Mark 1? No. That would be quite impossible, because we are hearing Christ’s preaching some three years before He died for anyone. Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 2:16 = Gospel #2 from OP) was given to Paul through a ‘revelation of Jesus Christ’ (Galatians 1:11+12), after his conversion in Acts 9. Water baptism for the ‘forgiveness of sins’ (Mark 1:4, Acts 2:38) is a doctrinal precept of the ‘gospel of the kingdom,’ which has nothing whatsoever to do with Paul’s gospel for today. Satan is tricking souls into adding ‘works’ to our gospel that MUST be accepted by faith APART from works of any kind. Ephesians 2:8+9. God’s Living Word distinguishes between the two gospels of the New Testament and NOT the Denominationalism of men.

Nygdan >> How do you know the original message?

How do I know the original message? You guys could help me a bunch by “quoting >>” from the Opening Post to give your questions context to something I have actually written. The references for each doctrinal component of both gospel messages are from your New Testament. Sins are forgiven through Gospel #1 by ‘water,’ while Paul’s gospel for today includes forgiveness through Christ’s shed blood. Ephesians 1:7. The Gospel of the Kingdom has three distinct baptisms (F+S+HS = Matt. 28:19), while Paul’s gospel has only ‘one baptism.’ Ephesians 4:5. I know the original message from studying Scripture all of my life and debating these things with scholars around the world since long before anyone invented the internet; having read the New Testament hundreds of times and studied the original languages for decades. Scripture warns that our gospel (Gospel #2) is veiled to those who are “perishing” (2Corinthians 4:3-4) and those distorting the ‘wisdom given him’ (Paul) are doing so to their “own destruction” (2Pet. 3:14-16). I am hoping to assist someone from making this grave error by exposing this grand conspiracy that finds many people sound asleep.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 13 2006 @ 06:33 PM
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Hi donwhite:

Don >> 21st century Christians are stuck in the mud of time.

No sir. You are trying to hijack this “2 Gospels” Thread to MudVille. Please address my two gospels hypothesis one way or the other and reserve your insight on the “10 year plagues of Egypt” and other ramblings for your own thread. Thanks much . . .

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 10:26 AM
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There are four gospels in the New Testament. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John.
That's it. It's been that way for 1700 years.



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 10:56 AM
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Hi Terral,

It seems you have studied this for years and present it very well. It has me very interested in reading your post and hope I can study them some more this weekend while I am off work but my computer has gone for good at home. I printed some of your post and charts off so that I can read them tommorrow. I think you may have planted a seed in my mind as some of these theories seem to make sense to me after reading them a couple of times. It looks to be a very extensive study on your part and thanks for sharing your views.
I keep waiting at work to read your other posts when I am not busy and have the time!



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 11:09 AM
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Hi Flyer:


Flyer >> There are four gospels in the New Testament. Matthew, Mark, Luke, John. That's it. It's been that way for 1700 years.


Lord – Have – Mercy. What does Scripture say?


“Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures . . .”. 1Corinthians 15:1-4.


Are you truly going to sit there and pretend that Paul is talking about the ‘gospel’ of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Gospel ‘messages’ are ‘preached’ by the ‘preacher’ (Romans 10:14) for the benefit of the one ‘hearing’ (Rom. 10:17) the ‘message of truth.’ Scripture says,


“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation--having also believed, you were sealed in Him (one baptism = 1Cor. 12:13) with the Holy Spirit (One Spirit) of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.” Ephesians 1:13-14.


The ‘message of truth’ or the ‘gospel of your salvation’ represents the ‘tool’ God is using to gather the members to a particular ‘dispensation’ (Eph. 3:2), according to ‘precepts’ teaching that particular “doctrine of salvation.” The doctrinal elements for Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message appear under Gospel #2 in the Opening Post, while the component parts of Peter’s “gospel of the kingdom” (Matt. 4:23, etc.) are given under Gospel #1. I dare say that pointing out the ‘opposing’ nature of each numbered precept for BOTH gospel messages (#1 VERSUS #2) is completely out of the question, because even the elemental aspects are flying over your head at the speed of light.

GL in the debate,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 29 2006 @ 11:44 AM
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Hi Greg:

You look well armed for battle (Avatar = Heh . . ).


Greg >> It seems you have studied this for years and present it very well. It has me very interested in reading your post and hope I can study them some more this weekend while I am off work but my computer has gone for good at home.


Yes sir; for decades. Send a U2U and I will send you to other Boards where these things have withstood the test of heated debate for years. My guess is that our ATS brothers and sisters have not actually seen a listing of the doctrinal composition of the two gospels of our New Testament laid out in this manner. This is certainly the most important thread in this Religion Forum BY FAR, IMHO, because the Denominations have molded their minds into accepting a counterfeit that blends these two gospels into one that DOES NOT SAVE. Therefore, the insidious and wicked (2Thes. 2:10-12*) nature of this conspiracy is that people are deceived into believing they are saved, when in truth they will continue to “believe what is false” (2Thes. 2:11) all their days. Paul warns that our gospel (#2) is veiled to those who are “PERISHING” (2Cor. 4:3-4), but even Peter’s warnings concerning the “wisdom given him” (2Pet. 3:14-16) fail to wake people up. The most dangerous conspiracies are those people never raise their consciousness to realize has them bound and chained to a destiny of utter “destruction” (2Pet. 3:16). All the ATS members writing on the Rapture Conspiracy Thread ( www.abovetopsecret.com... ) of now more than 11 pages would be wise to understand the basics of this Gospels OP of this thread first.


Greg >> I printed some of your post and charts off so that I can read them tomorrow. I think you may have planted a seed in my mind as some of these theories seem to make sense to me after reading them a couple of times.


Very good. Remember that you and I simply plant the seeds and water, but God causes the growth (1Cor. 3:6+7). The most important advice I can give is to be sure and read from the Pauline Epistles every day, which I have done for years and years just before heading off to bed. While All Scripture (2Tim. 3:16-17) is “Living,” the Pauline Epistles represent the ‘only’ part of Scripture that is also ‘Active’ (Heb. 4:12) for the members of “Christ’s body” (1Cor. 12:27 = that’s us) in the world today. Paul’s letters contain the “Lord’s Commandment” (1Cor. 14:37+38) for you today in the same way the Old Testament is His commands to Israel (Rom. 9:1-4) through Moses and the prophets. While the entire Bible is ‘for’ you, Paul’s Epistles represent God’s personal mail “to” you.

Take a fine pen and straightedge to underline every proper name in your readings from Romans to Philemon to give each page its own flavor. Make sure to use a newer translation like the New American Standard Bible (I use Nelson’s) with plenty of room in the columns for cross referencing verses. Also invest in an Exhaustive Concordance for your particular version and a Greek/English Interlinear Translation (I use Nelsons’ here also) where you can actually view the Greek terms and do comparative studies on the differences between the major Greek manuscripts. Doing these things will allow your new “inner man” (2Cor. 4:16) to enlarge exponentially in the weeks and months to come.


Greg >> It looks to be a very extensive study on your part and thanks for sharing your views. I keep waiting at work to read your other posts when I am not busy and have the time!


Okie. Please “quote >>” from my statements to give your questions and comments proper context and I will work diligently to give you a thoughtful reply. GL,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral



posted on Sep, 30 2006 @ 12:44 PM
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Man-0-Man:

It is looking more and more like somebody hacked my account and was up to no good this morning. Did somebody using my name do something bad to get me banned? If so, it was not me. It appears one of my debating opponents is a good hacker and this could happen to any one of you.

I have written responses, but cannot log on to send them. Somebody help!

No, I did not create this account to talk to myself. : 0 )

In Christ,

Terral



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 10:19 AM
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I can't find the right words to open this post so I'm just going to 'go with the flow' and let you know know that I have been reading this entire topic of yours plus the other comments for the past hour. I have a lot of thoughts regarding this topic, but for now I'll keep this as short as possible-or try to.

Paul's Gospel is one that cause's a great confusion. It never fails, that every single time I, myself began reading Corinthians I back track through the Bible or ask for confirmation from the Holy Spirit for understanding. A great deal of what Paul teaches can be viewed as contradicting to what Jesus taught.

Let's just look at this as the mind of a child would or in layman's terms:

You have stated that there are (2) Gospel's. One which Jesus teaches. One which Paul teaches, and termed as such, certainly gives off that impression.

Keeping in line with the OP-there are actually more than 2 and yet there is only 1.
This is very confusing to/for the Spirit or should I state, confusing to the mind as I'm sure the Spirit understands all of this completely.

What I mean by the above is that the Bible from beginning to end is not unlike a song, the chords change and the beat goes slow then faster, but the song remains the same. The Bible is ONE Gospel. Just as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are also ONE. No matter how many times one reads the Bible, discusses it or debates it, it never changes. It was written in a manner that no place in the bible is less or more significant or Holy, than another. The only thing that changes over time is man's way of thinking, opinions and such.

Paul's teachings are not written for man to disregard Jesus' teachings! But you will certainly find that very thing coming out of the shepherds mouths to the sheep today!! Perhaps this is what Paul meant by "these are shadows of things to come"
Shadows alright! Paul is probably mortified to know that his writings are being used to justify man becoming 'above the law' etc...today.

One thing I personally can attest to is that when people have the Holy Sprit dwelling within them, they become the Law. Everything that God spoke of in the 'OT' lives inside man-never dies. Man is the only one who alters God's Word, not God, not ever. So to preach that Paul came so that man can basically 'do away' with what Jesus teaches, is Anti-Christ. It is, figuratively and literally.

So no. Even though what you have written 'tickles the ears' it is certainly not the way that Paul taught. I don't even need to direct you to scripture to know this.

My suggestion to you Terrel is get off the road and back on the playground. Your heart is in it and your words are wise and you love our Savior, no doubt! However this is what can happen when man goes above the law or bypasses the Holy Spirit and simply relies on wisdom. This very thing is warned of through and through the Bible!

May God fill our hearts with Truth and our Spirits with Him. And may God Bless you in your journey.

HarpS



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 11:57 AM
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Hi HarpStrings:


Harp >> I can't find the right words to open this post so I'm just going to 'go with the flow' and let you know that I have been reading this entire topic of yours plus the other comments for the past hour. I have a lot of thoughts regarding this topic, but for now I'll keep this as short as possible-or try to.


The very best way to begin on all my threads is to “quote me >>” to give your words context to something already presented in the debate. If you are my ‘advocate,’ then quote something where we might agree; if my ‘adversary,’ then quote the errant parts of my posts and give me both barrels using Scripture. : 0 )


Harp >> Paul's Gospel is one that cause's a great confusion. It never fails, that every single time I, myself began reading Corinthians I back track through the Bible or ask for confirmation from the Holy Spirit for understanding. A great deal of what Paul teaches can be viewed as contradicting to what Jesus taught.


We agree. This is because Christ was sent to Israel ‘only’ (Matt. 15:24) to offer the ‘gospel of the kingdom’ (Matt. 4:23, 9:35, etc. = Gospel #1 from OP) only to be rejected and crucified. God is not offering Gentiles the chance to become that ‘kingdom of priests’ (Exodus 19:6) or even to be betrothed to the Lord (Hosea 2:19+20). Peter, John and James are called the “sons of the bridal chamber” (Mark 2:19), as they were called by God to gather the members of Christ’s prophetic kingdom “bride” (John 3:29) from ISRAEL ONLY (Matt. 10:5-7). However, God raised up Paul in light of Israel’s ‘transgression’ (Rom. 11:11) and gave him our gospel (#2 from OP) for today. Israel was called while under Mosaic Law and they will remain under the Law until the heavens and earth pass away (Matt. 5:17+18 = James 2:10). However, Gentiles have been ‘without the Law’ (Rom. 2:14+15) from the beginning. Obedience to Paul’s “my gospel” (Rom. 16:25) means we are ‘under grace and not under law’ (Rom. 6:14). The difference is that we become members of “Christ’s BODY” (1Cor. 12:27) with NO future wedding supper (Rev. 19:5-10) to attend. We are “IN” the Lamb of Revelation even now through obeying Gospel #2 of the OP.


Harp >> Let's just look at this as the mind of a child would or in layman's terms: You have stated that there are (2) Gospel's. One which Jesus teaches. One which Paul teaches, and termed as such, certainly gives off that impression.


Not exactly. You will do far better to simply “quote me >” instead of trying to characterize my views. Paul is also seen ‘preaching the kingdom’ (Acts 20:25) to the disciples of Acts 19:1-6 like most everyone else in Acts. These two gospel messages are accurately identified in Scripture by their directly opposing doctrinal precepts (1-8), without regard to who is preaching them.


Harp >> Keeping in line with the OP-there are actually more than 2 and yet there is only 1. This is very confusing to/for the Spirit or should I state, confusing to the mind as I'm sure the Spirit understands all of this completely.


There are actually four gospels presented in the New Testament, but only two have been implemented for the forgiveness of sins and the salvation of the hearers to date. Experience tells me not to muddy the water with descriptions of other gospels at this stage of the debate.


Harp >> What I mean by the above is that the Bible from beginning to end is not unlike a song, the chords change and the beat goes slow then faster, but the song remains the same. The Bible is ONE Gospel.


No sir. You do not understand the difference in good news AND a gospel message sent FROM GOD through ‘apostles’ for the salvation of the hearers. You cannot draft an outline of precepts teaching any “ONE gospel” from the entire Bible. Good Luck! Since you refuse to simply “quote me >>” and offer opposing views, then nothing in my OP is anywhere near under attack. GL.

God bless,

Terral



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 12:03 PM
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Originally posted by Terral
Heh . . . That is because you have absolutely nothing to offer beyond your unbelief . . .

Unbelief in YOUR ideas? What's Sir Wolf missing? He's got love and unity and a hope for peace in his heart - more God than you claim - without him even making a claim at all. Good fruit on the wolf-tree, I know.

You'd do well to listen to the 'peacemakers.' You don't want to be left 'out in the cold' when the party starts, do you?


My writing is directed at ‘believers’ and nobody is forcing anything on anybody . . .


Belief in what? The Gospel of Terral? It's not even encouraging - it sounds like a constant reprimand...

Peace be with you - God loves even the stiff necked babes.



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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Originally posted by HarpStrings
My suggestion to you Terrel is get off the road and back on the playground. Your heart is in it and your words are wise and you love our Savior, no doubt! However this is what can happen when man goes above the law or bypasses the Holy Spirit and simply relies on wisdom. This very thing is warned of through and through the Bible.


Sound advice and spiritually directed, with meekness and in love!
Bless you my beloved brother (sister? LOL)....

Terral - I second HarpStrings advice and hope you realize what that means, if you truly look to the Lamb's book of Life for guidance.

Peace and love to you...



posted on Oct, 7 2006 @ 03:11 PM
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Hi Annie:

Heh . . . Please forgive my “Nanny” references, as I first read your name “QueenNannie.” From now on you are just Annie. : 0 )


Annie >> Terral - I second HarpStrings advice and hope you realize what that means, if you truly look to the Lamb's book of Life for guidance.


That would be impossible, because I am already “IN” the Lamb Himself. That is what it means to be “baptized into Christ” (Gal. 3:27) through the “one baptism” (Eph. 4:5) described in 1Corinthians 12:13. The Lamb’s book of life is for those seeking entrance into the Lamb. The believers in Paul’s “word of the cross” (1Cor. 1:18) gospel message have lives hidden with Christ “IN” God (Col. 3:1-3). There is no way possible for me to be any closer to God. Remember your NT is divided into a water part AND a blood part, as Christ came in water AND blood (1John 5:8).

The Lamb’s book of life is for registering members from the ‘water’ dispensation, so they are made ready to be joined with the Lamb through the contract of Holy Matrimony. They will earn by 'works' (James 2:20-24) what God is giving us (body of Christ = Eph. 4:12) for free (Romans 6:23, Eph. 2:8+9). You should be able to realize that those already “IN” Him have no need for any book. These things become all mixed up, when you blend the entire NT into a blood/water witness account, when in truth they must be “rightly divided” (2Tim. 2:15). GL,

In Christ Jesus right this very second,

Terral



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